rico567 Report post Posted June 25, 2013 We drove an FFH (SE) about a month ago, and we've got our choice narrowed down to two cars, the FFH and the VW Passat TDI SEL Premium. We decided that a second round of test drives for these two cars are in order. Going to drive the FFH first this time around, tomorrow and at a different dealer. They've got a loaded Titanium, which is my favorite, so this should be interesting.....but they are dreaming asking $37K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tclemmer Report post Posted June 25, 2013 Best of luck on your decision. I have had VW diesels (Jetta) for my last two cars (2003, 2009). Enjoyed them quite a lot. Handed the 2003 down to my son when I got the 2009. I traded the 2009 in on the FFH and I am happy with it so far. One thing is clear, with the VW diesels you can just drive and get really good numbers. The FFH, I feel like I really have to work at it, I can not just drive it like I did the Jetta. The main reason for me trading in the Jetta was the issue some people were having with the High Pressure Fuel Pump. Even though it appears to be a very small percentage, the cost of that failure can be 6K to 10K at a dealer. But VW has been working with a lot of people and covering it, in some cases up to 80K miles. Any way, you will be happy with either one. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rico567 Report post Posted June 25, 2013 Good drive. Titanium completely loaded out, sticker well over $37K. We really liked it, the black paint is fine, but in black on black interior.....a little too mafia. This is definitely the FFH for me, but my chances of seeing invoice? Not so much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsolan Report post Posted June 25, 2013 Enjoy the test drives.I had a VW Jetta loaner for a while and hated the handling/ride. After that I didn't even consider a VW product when I started car searching. Best of luck on price negotiations as well. This late in the year you might be able to haggle with the fact the 2014's are coming out soon with better features and you're a patient buyer ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted June 26, 2013 Good drive. Titanium completely loaded out, sticker well over $37K. We really liked it, the black paint is fine, but in black on black interior.....a little too mafia. This is definitely the FFH for me, but my chances of seeing invoice? Not so much.Why would you not get it for invoice? If you order one from the factory there's no reason you should have to pay more than invoice. At this point I believe the order banks for 2013 are closed but you could order a 2014 and get it delivered fairly soon after they start building them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermans Report post Posted June 26, 2013 Why would you not get it for invoice? If you order one from the factory there's no reason you should have to pay more than invoice. At this point I believe the order banks for 2013 are closed but you could order a 2014 and get it delivered fairly soon after they start building themI see this posted on a lot of forums. Invoice? What "invoice" are you talking about? If it's the dealer invoice it has the A&Z plan price, the X Plan price and the D Plan price along with the price the dealer is paying for the car. Then there is the Monroney label which includes the MSRP. If you are referring to the price the dealer pays for the car - they are allowed to make a profit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coach81 Report post Posted June 26, 2013 good luck with your decision, and your new car! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) I see this posted on a lot of forums. Invoice? What "invoice" are you talking about? If it's the dealer invoice it has the A&Z plan price, the X Plan price and the D Plan price along with the price the dealer is paying for the car. Then there is the Monroney label which includes the MSRP. If you are referring to the price the dealer pays for the car - they are allowed to make a profit.Dealer invoice price is publicly available on sites like kbb.com or Edmunds. The dealer should also have no problem telling you this number. The dealer invoice printout will show you AZXD plan pricing, MSRP & dealer invoice. The dealer makes a profit even when selling you a car at dealer invoice. The dealer does not pay Ford the dealer invoice price for a car. They pay less. When dealers sell a car at invoice price they're still making money because every car has a "holdback" which on the FFH is somewhere between $500 & $1000. That is their margin even when selling at invoice price. Higher volume dealers are more likely to sell cars at invoice price because they also get volume rebates from Ford. These numbers are purely for the purpose of illustration and are not necessarily accurate. My dealer explained this process to me because I asked about how they make profit selling at invoice (but I didn't ask this until after we had signed and paid that price for our car). He didn't tell me how much they get in volume rebates, he just said that they get volume rebates every month at their dealer. Say for example that Ford sets a target of 100 Fusions per month per dealer to get a volume rebate of $300 per car. If that dealer sells 110 Fusions in one month they would get a rebate from Ford of $3300 or 110 x 300. That increases their margin on every Fusion by $300. This is why shopping at the end of the month is good for buying cars off the lot. The dealer might know on the 29th of the month that they need to sell 15 more Fusions to get their volume rebate so they'll sell those cars cheaper knowing that the volume rebate will make up for it. Buying cars off the lot is more expensive because the dealer typically doesn't pay cash up front to Ford when taking delivery for their lot. They have a finance company who pays Ford and they pay a fee for every month the car goes unsold, and then they pay the full cost of the car once they have received the money from the buyer. This is another reason why they sell cheaper at the end of the month. Because every car still on their lot on the 1st of the next month costs them another fee to the finance company. When you order a car the dealer doesn't go through the finance company but instead pays Ford cash up front which is why you can order out at a lower price. Acdii, if you read this explanation it might be worthwhile to PIN it so I don't keep having to type it over and over in different threads. Since I'm doing all this on my iPhone on our trip maybe you can please copy and paste it into a pinned topic about buying resources. Thanks! Edited June 26, 2013 by hybridbear 1 corncobs reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murphy Report post Posted June 26, 2013 110 x 300 = 33,000 not 3300. :) 1 corncobs reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted June 26, 2013 Acdii, if you read this explanation it might be worthwhile to PIN it so I don't keep having to type it over and over in different threads. Since I'm doing all this on my iPhone on our trip maybe you can please copy and paste it into a pinned topic about buying resources. Thanks!Done and Pinned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rico567 Report post Posted June 28, 2013 I suppose I'm posting this because it completes the thread, in a way. We went full circle today- completed the last test drive, a second drive of the VW Passat TDI SEL Premium, after our second test of the FFH (a Titanium this time) on Tuesday. Still not sure that we've arrived at a winner...despite the fact that these are very different cars, they both meet our needs well enough that it's still going to be what is probably a decision made on secondary characteristics (such as the larger back seat and trunk in the Passat) rather than anything major. I was hung up on the price of the FFH for a while, but I've decided I'm not going to let that influence which car we buy (within reason, of course- this is assuming such car is available at invoice). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jholt26 Report post Posted July 14, 2013 Did you ever make a decision on which to buy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neod192 Report post Posted July 16, 2013 Did you ever make a decision on which to buy?Yes - http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7154-decision-made-car-delivered/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
