Dead 12 V Battery

[Spadoac]

Picked up my FFH on 5-15-13. On 6-4 I went to open my trunk and it would not open. Then I tried the locks. I noticed a flicker of the lights and could see that my battery is dying. With in another minute to 2 it was stone dead.How could this be? I just came home 20 min ago. I had to look up the owners manuel on my smart phone because I had no clue how to get in my car. 30 min later Roadside Assistance had a tow truck there to help. As soon as the cable were hooked up it came to life. I made the mistake of taking the tow truck drivers suggestion that I left an interior light on. I went for a drive to make sure the all was fine and it seen to be so I parked it for the evening. The next morning DEAD! Tow to the dealer pick up a POS rental. 3 hrs later I get a call from my service advisor. My car is ready. There was a recent memo discussing a similar issue and all they had to do is update the computer program. I'm happy and on my way. 24 hrs later I try to unlock my car. DEAD AGAIN! After 10-15 min of having words with my dealer service advisor and trying numerous time to unlock my car. I call road side assistance for a tow. Just then I try one more time. It unlocks and starts. I got straight to the dealer before they close. Another POS rental and going on 5 days later they have not been able to duplicate the problem. They say that there are to many error codes to pinpoint exactly what is the problem but will replace the Body Control Module tomorrow.

Does any of this sound familiar to anybody else?

My patience are running a little thin right now!

 

2013 Ford Fusion SE Hybrid - Ingot Silver Metallic

• 505A Equipment Group
• SE Technology Package
• Voice-Activated Navigation
• Reverse Sensing System

Built: April 25, 2013

Delivery: May 15, 2013

Edited June 11, 2013 by Spadoac

[murphy]

You didn't tell us what features you have in your FFH.

Assuming your car has pushbutton start there is a key hidden inside of the Intelligent Access key.

There are instructions in the Owner's manual on how to remove the cover from the driver's door handle and use the key to unlock the driver's door.

The manual also has pictures showing where the battery jump connection points are in the engine compartment.

 

If the battery is not dead and the car is locked, opening the door this way will set off the alarm.

 

Leaving an internal light on can't run down the battery. It would be turned off automatically after about 10 minutes.

 

Either the 12 volt battery is defective or something in the car is putting a load on the battery that shouldn't be there when the car is turned off.

 

"Too many error codes". There should be ZERO error codes.

 

When you get the car back ask on the forum how to turn on Engineering Test Mode. One of the screens in ET mode shows the code list. It should be empty.

 

A nearly dead battery could cause the generation of codes.

 

Have them insert a high current ammeter in series with the positive battery terminal and measure the load on the battery when the car is turned off. If that is too high then they need to find what is causing the drain. Changing parts at random is the expensive way to fix the problem.

 

Good luck.

[Spadoac]

No pushbutton start. I hate to say it but I am now an expert at removing the cover from the door handel and manualy use the key. From what I have been told the shop forman has had to take over and is working directly with Ford Engineers to run full system checks on all computer modules. The susposedly will be a factory engineer who will be there tomorrow. They claim this is all new to them.

[acdii]

Did they replace the battery yet? The error codes will get thrown when the 12v battery is low. Unless they did a full overnight charge and load test on the battery to prove its good, I would have them replace the battery and see if that works.

[jeff_h]

No pushbutton start. I hate to say it but I am now an expert at removing the cover from the door handel and manualy use the key. From what I have been told the shop forman has had to take over and is working directly with Ford Engineers to run full system checks on all computer modules. The susposedly will be a factory engineer who will be there tomorrow. They claim this is all new to them.

 

The SE Hybrid does not have the option of push-button start, that was the reason I placed order #2 that was later abandoned.

 

On the above issue, have they replaced the 12v battery? I see from the above that "There was a recent memo discussing a similar issue and all they had to do is update the computer program" which I assume is the TSB on that issue, but if the 12v battery was no good by that time, maybe that should also be replaced.

[hermans]

Ford did get a bunch of bad batteries. I went through two batteries until the third one took hold. That and along with the TSB being done and everything is OKEY DOKIE.

[Fastronaut]

Picked up my FFH on 5-15-13. On 6-4 I went to open my trunk and it would not open. Then I tried the locks. I noticed a flicker of the lights and could see that my battery is dying. With in another minute to 2 it was stone dead.How could this be? I just came home 20 min ago. I had to look up the owners manuel on my smart phone because I had no clue how to get in my car. 30 min later Roadside Assistance had a tow truck there to help. As soon as the cable were hooked up it came to life. I made the mistake of taking the tow truck drivers suggestion that I left an interior light on. I went for a drive to make sure the all was fine and it seen to be so I parked it for the evening. The next morning DEAD! Tow to the dealer pick up a POS rental. 3 hrs later I get a call from my service advisor. My car is ready. There was a recent memo discussing a similar issue and all they had to do is update the computer program. I'm happy and on my way. 24 hrs later I try to unlock my car. DEAD AGAIN! After 10-15 min of having words with my dealer service advisor and trying numerous time to unlock my car. I call road side assistance for a tow. Just then I try one more time. It unlocks and starts. I got straight to the dealer before they close. Another POS rental and going on 5 days later they have not been able to duplicate the problem. They say that there are to many error codes to pinpoint exactly what is the problem but will replace the Body Control Module tomorrow.

Does any of this sound familiar to anybody else?

My patience are running a little thin right now!

 

2013 Ford Fusion SE Hybrid - Ingot Silver Metallic

• 505A Equipment Group
• SE Technology Package
• Voice-Activated Navigation
• Reverse Sensing System

Built: April 25, 2013

Delivery: May 15, 2013

Have them check the voltages coming out of the fuse box.

[Fastronaut]

 

The SE Hybrid does not have the option of push-button start, that was the reason I placed order #2 that was later abandoned.

 

On the above issue, have they replaced the 12v battery? I see from the above that "There was a recent memo discussing a similar issue and all they had to do is update the computer program" which I assume is the TSB on that issue, but if the 12v battery was no good by that time, maybe that should also be replaced.

Yup, once the battery is trashed, it should be replaced after the software update TSB. Ford will not preventatively install the TSB until you have the problem. I asked and couldn't get it done ahead of time.

[Spadoac]

 

The SE Hybrid does not have the option of push-button start, that was the reason I placed order #2 that was later abandoned.

 

On the above issue, have they replaced the 12v battery? I see from the above that "There was a recent memo discussing a similar issue and all they had to do is update the computer program" which I assume is the TSB on that issue, but if the 12v battery was no good by that time, maybe that should also be replaced.They

They have tested and determined the battery and it tests fine. I have already stated I would like a battery no mater what.

[Spadoac]

The latest is they need to go thru all the modules and connectors looking for water damage. There seems to be a dead short in the system. When do I step up and say I have had it. I want results NOW.

[acdii]

how many times has it been in for this and how many days out of service? If they cant fix it, there is always the lemon law.

[hybridbear]

Had you ever seen the "Battery Saver" message before this?

[Fastronaut]

The latest is they need to go thru all the modules and connectors looking for water damage. There seems to be a dead short in the system. When do I step up and say I have had it. I want results NOW.

I have some experience with the Ford diagnostic process, having had design-level engineering help out on my car. First, ask the dealer to tell you about their interaction with Fords technical support center. Many times, the delay is a day to get word back and forth. If its been too long, ask for the dealer to request a Ford field service engineer on-site. That may take a few days, but they have company reach not available to dealerships. If you don't become your own best advocate, you're in for a wait. Also, ensure your dealership has a hybrid certified mechanic who is ACTUALLY working on this problem. Edited June 12, 2013 by Fastronaut

[Fastronaut]

how many times has it been in for this and how many days out of service? If they cant fix it, there is always the lemon law.

Far easier to say then do my friend. Varies from State to State and also carries some cost to the owner. Dealer cooperation for this is very important, Edited June 12, 2013 by Fastronaut

[Spadoac]

Far easier to say then do my friend. Varies from State to State and also carries some cost to the owner. Dealer cooperation for this is very important,

A Ford customer affairs representative for our area is expected to contact me today or tomorrow. CA lemon law is like 30 days out of service and or 4 services for the same issue.

[Spadoac]

I have some experience with the Ford diagnostic process, having had design-level engineering help out on my car. First, ask the dealer to tell you about their interaction with Fords technical support center. Many times, the delay is a day to get word back and forth. If its been too long, ask for the dealer to request a Ford field service engineer on-site. That may take a few days, but they have company reach not available to dealerships. If you don't become your own best advocate, you're in for a wait. Also, ensure your dealership has a hybrid certified mechanic who is ACTUALLY working on this problem.

The Ford field service engineer will be looking at it today. They have been unable to duplicate a no start. They are seeing multiple codes stating there is a problem possible a short in the system but unable to pinpoint what. This is a large dealership so you would figure the only one working on this would be Hybrid certified.

[Spadoac]

how many times has it been in for this and how many days out of service? If they cant fix it, there is always the lemon law.

This is day 8.

[Spadoac]

Had you ever seen the "Battery Saver" message before this?

No I have never seen the " Battery Saver " message.

[Spadoac]

Still in the shop and exactly what is killing the battery is unknown.The latest from Ford on this is the battery is fine. The official description of the problem is a intermittent dead short. Until late yesterday they were unable to duplicate the problem. Finally! They did this by driving it for a half an hour of some city and highway driving under normal conditions. 3 hours later a dead battery no start. The second the jumper cable applied it came to life. Now this data taken has to be sent to Ford factory engineers to decide the next step to be taken. Looks like it will be another weekend with out my car.

[Spadoac]

The latest is the battery is toast! Error codes are gone! Houston We Have A Problem!

From the beginning in this forum,customer complaints, reviews and even the CMax owner that was in the Enterprise office when I was picking up the POS rental suggested it may be the battery! How is it that it takes Ford Engineers 9 days to determine this? They would like to keep a few more days to confirm there findings. That means 12+ of my life in this car are gone. Do you think Ford will offer any compensation? Will this be then end of the issues with my FFH?

[murphy]

IMHO the 12 volt battery is too small to handle the load that is always present even when the car is turned off.

Any time you are in the car using any of the electronics turn the car on so the power comes from the high voltage battery or the ICE.

 

The general rule with a conventional car going back 50 years was that it was necessary to drive at least 25 miles to charge the battery. I have no idea what the charge profile is with this system but short trips are unlikely to keep the 12 volt battery charged. My 2010 Fusion Hybrid had the same problem. The 12 volt battery is unique to Ford. You can't buy one anywhere else.

 

I have a smart battery charger that reports the charge level of the battery. After sitting unused for a couple of days the 12 volt battery always has less than 50% charge. I have the battery charge TSB installed. It made no difference in the way the battery works if the car sits unused for several days..

 

I don't know what kind of battery it is because Ford apparently has not published any specs other than the meaningless 390 CCA spec. The car doesn't have a starter motor and has no need for a battery that provides a short duration high current profile. In this application it should be a deep discharge battery. One complete discharge of a standard car battery is enough to destroy the battery.

 

If the car is driven every day and never used in accessory mode the battery should work.

[Spadoac]

Battery #2 being installed today!

[Fastronaut]

Battery #2 being installed today!

Did you also get the software update TSB for the battery problem?

[Spadoac]

Did you also get the software update TSB for the battery problem?

They did that 2 weeks ago and never considered changing the battery out until last Friday. That battery only lasted until Monday. The date code on the one that just failed was Sept 2012. The other 3 they had in stock had the same date. they made a wise decision to order a newer one with a later date. Hopefully I can pick it up today. I think they have been holding my car hostage so they can use it as a Ginnie pig to further understand this issue. They have had 3 different field engineers looking at it.

[hermans]

They did that 2 weeks ago and never considered changing the battery out until last Friday. That battery only lasted until Monday. The date code on the one that just failed was Sept 2012. The other 3 they had in stock had the same date. they made a wise decision to order a newer one with a later date. Hopefully I can pick it up today. I think they have been holding my car hostage so they can use it as a Ginnie pig to further understand this issue. They have had 3 different field engineers looking at it.

That's the trouble I had. Two batteries with the 09/12 date code. The third one, with a later date along with the TSB fix has worked. A Ford rep did acknowledge that there was a big batch of bad batteries. I've not had the issue with the MKZ.

Edited June 18, 2013 by hermans