Oregon SW Washington FFH Mileage

[MXGOLF]

I just was wondering if there is anyone on this forum in Oregon or SW Washington who has this car? I would like to know what your mileage is and if you are having any problems trying to get descent mileage. My car is only going to be a 33-36 mpg car and that's it. I have tried everything to get 40+ mpg and it won't happen but on a few downhill trips. It's been really frustrating. The weather even was hot for a couple of weeks and got to 37 mpg average for a few days. It seems like with the hills around here my car just won't stay in the EV mode at all. My car doesn't seem to charge very rapidly and when fully charged runs down fairly quickly. Ford has been no help on this. Thanks for any help you folks can give me. I would like to maybe have someone else drive my car and see if there is the same or different.

 

Thanks,

[rjent]

Like I have offered, I will be there in Oct. I would love to help you compare your car to ours. I hope you find someone with a FFH before that, but if you don't, let me know....

I just was wondering if there is anyone on this forum in Oregon or SW Washington who has this car? I would like to know what your mileage is and if you are having any problems trying to get descent mileage. My car is only going to be a 33-36 mpg car and that's it. I have tried everything to get 40+ mpg and it won't happen but on a few downhill trips. It's been really frustrating. The weather even was hot for a couple of weeks and got to 37 mpg average for a few days. It seems like with the hills around here my car just won't stay in the EV mode at all. My car doesn't seem to charge very rapidly and when fully charged runs down fairly quickly. Ford has been no help on this. Thanks for any help you folks can give me. I would like to maybe have someone else drive my car and see if there is the same or different.

Thanks,

[MXGOLF]

Thanks I would love to meet you and BS to see if my car is really a lemon like I think it is. I would like someone to drive mine to see if I am crazy or confirm I got a bad one. Not someone from the dealer.

[acdii]

How many miles do you have on it now?

[MXGOLF]

I have 3300 and no noticeable increase in mpg. The weather was hot for 2 weeks and I did get 2-3 mpg better but that's still way below the 47 advertised. It's been cold this week and the mileage has plumitted. I am putting her in the garage now every night which seems to help a bit but not a whole lot. It's got to be the batteries. I just had them do a 3000 mile service instead of waiting to 5000 and they said everything was fine. ? Not in my book it isn't.

[Guardian_Bob]

Well, so I have a 25.5 mile commute from Canby to Beaverton. This morning I averaged 42+ MPG. Since I've owned the car for all of 5 days, it is hard to say if that's the trend.

 

I'm using ACC a lot in ECO mode. I have about <10 miles in a 65 MPH zone (I-5) and the rest of my drive is 55 or less. I'm staying at the speed limit, not over like most people and I believe that's helping a lot. I'll check back in a few weeks.

[Guardian_Bob]

I figure I should show you this, on my way home tonight, stopping at the post office:

 

GPS said the "eco" route was through Oregon City. Yeah, not so much.

 

But I got my Fusion on Thursday and it already knows enough to kick in EV+ near home:

Still need to break it in though, not even to 500 miles yet.

 

[wazzul]

My commute is from Keizer to Beaverton 37miles, mostly on I5 and my average is below on Fuelly. I've had the car for less than a month and have done a lot of demos for people which normally hurt my mpg because We're sitting to show off features.

so far my best one way commute was 42.7mpg and worst was about 32 in a rain storm. I normally set Eco cruise between 68-72 on I5 and hit traffic in the Metro area so I take over.

My best trip if any distance was across Salem from way South to North Keizer and got 57.7mpg. All city driving and doing my best to stay in Ev when possible.

Edited May 29, 2013 by wazzul

[acdii]

If your getting 42 going 70 in the interstate, that's good MPG. Ford has really set this car up to ace the EPA highway test, which the EPA considers Highway as the rural back roads at no more than 55 MPH, and it shows that if you go those speeds(55) you can achieve the EPA. Had Ford continued to use the 2.5 L that is in the previous Gen, it may have done much better on the interstate, but unsure what city would be. Who knows, it may also do better in City due to the extra .5L with the charging portion.

 

As can be seen by Fuelly logs, the 2.5 that is in the new Fusion is performing better MPG wise than either of the 2 EB engines. This may have a lot to do with being a Turbo charged engine and peoples habit of using said Turbo. Without me actually driving one, I cant say one way or the other. I do know I can get in my 3.5L EB Flex what others are getting in their non EB 3.5 Flex.

 

So the question remains, did going to a smaller engine help or hurt the new Fusions? I would love to see the new hybrid system mated to a 2.5 from the Gen I and see how it does on the Interstate.

[wazzul]

The 42 days I really only drive about 25 miles at speed, the rest is in either slower or stop and go traffic. When I hit that section of the five my average goes way up. Honestly, the traffic is the reason I got the Hybrid and not the gas version. Figured with gas I'd get less than 20 in those section and just be doubly miserable... At least with the Hybrid even though I'm miserable because of traffic, at least I can try to keep it in EV and keep the disastrous mpg's pegged! It's the little things in life that amuse me! :-)

[fusionTX]

It doesn't seem like any of the NW cars are standouts just yet. Maybe there is something to the terrain/ weather up there. Look forward to hearing more about how your cars perform.

[Guardian_Bob]

It doesn't seem like any of the NW cars are standouts just yet. Maybe there is something to the terrain/ weather up there. Look forward to hearing more about how your cars perform.

 

Well the high today is 64, and it is 49 outside right now, so things haven't warmed up really yet.

[MXGOLF]

Well they say Oregon has crappy gas and of course the weather can be complained about both of which could have an effect on gas mileage. I wonder if we here in Oregon used Plus or Super to get around the supposidly bad gas? I still am only getting 35-36 mpg even with the weather warming up. I have 3500 miles now and no sight of 40+ mpg. A few trips mostly flat or down hill I can do 40 but that's not real world driving. I was just in DC and Nebraska and it being so flat I can see where it would be easier to get better mileage. I flew there not drove. LOL.

[Guardian_Bob]

Well they say Oregon has crappy gas and of course the weather can be complained about both of which could have an effect on gas mileage. I wonder if we here in Oregon used Plus or Super to get around the supposidly bad gas? I still am only getting 35-36 mpg even with the weather warming up. I have 3500 miles now and no sight of 40+ mpg. A few trips mostly flat or down hill I can do 40 but that's not real world driving. I was just in DC and Nebraska and it being so flat I can see where it would be easier to get better mileage. I flew there not drove. LOL.

 

So I have my own tracker for this (my own website, mysql db, etc). I'll try the experiment of plus or premium once I have a good baseline and post the results.

 

Given the cost is usually $0.10 more and in my Mazda I saw over 10% gains, it was completely worth it.

[kuzzi]

Do you fill up at the same station or the same area consistently?

 

Stations farther away from sources allow the ethanol in the fuel to absorb more moisture in transit and unloading. If the station doesn't keep their tanks tidy, more can be absorbed there.

 

If you suspect bad gas, you should be able to submit a complaint to the Dept. of Agriculture/Weights and Measures and they can take samples from the station to confirm. I've considered complaining about all the stations in my area, getting sample data, and then exclusively go to the one with the least ethanol content (my Harley hates it).

 

I always like to see the Weights and Measures sticker on the pump and the calibration date, I don't trust flowmeters very much past 6 months. Unfortunately ya'll gotta let someone pump your gas for you.

[Guardian_Bob]

Do you fill up at the same station or the same area consistently?

 

Stations farther away from sources allow the ethanol in the fuel to absorb more moisture in transit and unloading. If the station doesn't keep their tanks tidy, more can be absorbed there.

 

If you suspect bad gas, you should be able to submit a complaint to the Dept. of Agriculture/Weights and Measures and they can take samples from the station to confirm. I've considered complaining about all the stations in my area, getting sample data, and then exclusively go to the one with the least ethanol content (my Harley hates it).

 

I always like to see the Weights and Measures sticker on the pump and the calibration date, I don't trust flowmeters very much past 6 months. Unfortunately ya'll gotta let someone pump your gas for you.

 

See here's the thing, the State of Oregon mandates 10% ethanol.

 

That said yes, I go to the same station, every time.

[kuzzi]

That stinks, here it is "up to 10% ethanol". Knowing it's an octane booster, and having to use high octane for the bike, I'm pretty much guaranteed to get a high ethanol content when I fill up the bike. I do not know how much ethanol is actually in our 87/89 octane.

 

Here's a supposed list of ethanol free places in Oregon.

 

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR

 

Most are probably marinas for boats or the octane is >91.

[Guardian_Bob]

That stinks, here it is "up to 10% ethanol". Knowing it's an octane booster, and having to use high octane for the bike, I'm pretty much guaranteed to get a high ethanol content when I fill up the bike. I do not know how much ethanol is actually in our 87/89 octane.

 

Here's a supposed list of ethanol free places in Oregon.

 

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR

 

Most are probably marinas for boats or the octane is >91.

 

Thanks for the list.

 

Last time I saw someone advertise ethanol free gas, they wanted $5/gallon.

[MXGOLF]

Good points on the gas content. I notice it on my Yamaha FZ6. They say regular gas like my fusion but there is a difference in how it runs on regular + or super. I use Chevron as I have had a Chevron card for ever it seems and there gas usually is close to what it says it is. But then again maybe not quite. Although now with only filling up once or so a month I could probably do the cash deal and search for the best actual gas station with the best gas. I wonder what would happen if I put in some of my dirt bike racing gas in my FFH? Probably wheely away! LOL. I think she would not like it however.

[Guardian_Bob]

Good points on the gas content. I notice it on my Yamaha FZ6. They say regular gas like my fusion but there is a difference in how it runs on regular + or super. I use Chevron as I have had a Chevron card for ever it seems and there gas usually is close to what it says it is. But then again maybe not quite. Although now with only filling up once or so a month I could probably do the cash deal and search for the best actual gas station with the best gas. I wonder what would happen if I put in some of my dirt bike racing gas in my FFH? Probably wheely away! LOL. I think she would not like it however.

 

My mechanic recommends Chevron, so I use Chevron. It is as simple as that.

[kuzzi]

The extra octane means you can compress it even further before it decides to explode on its own without a spark. At a given compression assuming it does not autoignite, I believe the higher octane would yield less power (someone please correct me if this isn't right). We use 100+ octane tool fuel for our K12 FR saws in the fire department. That K12 has a 80cc engine, but puts out 6+ horsepower thanks to the extra high compression (I do not know the exact value, but we have to hit the decompression valve otherwise we'll yank our arms off pull-starting it).

 

In small bikes like my sportster, it doesn't have electronic knock detection (only manual = my ears), so I keep a high octane fuel 91+ in it for the high compression (12.0:1) after my engine conversion. The FFH has a CR of 12.0:1, I think, but also has knock detection and can retard/advance ignition on the fly. The lower power density in a higher octane may not make a difference at all, but fuel additives may as well as overall quality of the fuel. I have always felt that the + branded fuels are held to a higher standard going through the refinery, but that's just my insane logic.

 

I'll wait to see Bob's results since I really have no idea other than on paper what the octane helps.

 

You also say that you fill up once a month? The gasoline may be degrading over that month, especially since ethanol can evaporate off and leave you with even less of a tank to use. This is unlikely since gas should stay fine for a couple of months, but if the fuel is questionable to begin with, that's another story. (If all the ethanol in a 13.5g tank evaporates and somehow escapes the tank, that is 1.35 gallons gone right there with a 10% blend).

 

Are you seeing better numbers right after a fillup?

[Guardian_Bob]

The extra octane means you can compress it even further before it decides to explode on its own without a spark. At a given compression assuming it does not autoignite, I believe the higher octane would yield less power (someone please correct me if this isn't right). We use 100+ octane tool fuel for our K12 FR saws in the fire department. That K12 has a 80cc engine, but puts out 6+ horsepower thanks to the extra high compression (I do not know the exact value, but we have to hit the decompression valve otherwise we'll yank our arms off pull-starting it).

 

In small bikes like my sportster, it doesn't have electronic knock detection (only manual = my ears), so I keep a high octane fuel 91+ in it for the high compression (12.0:1) after my engine conversion. The FFH has a CR of 12.0:1, I think, but also has knock detection and can retard/advance ignition on the fly. The lower power density in a higher octane may not make a difference at all, but fuel additives may as well as overall quality of the fuel. I have always felt that the + branded fuels are held to a higher standard going through the refinery, but that's just my insane logic.

 

I'll wait to see Bob's results since I really have no idea other than on paper what the octane helps.

 

You also say that you fill up once a month? The gasoline may be degrading over that month, especially since ethanol can evaporate off and leave you with even less of a tank to use. This is unlikely since gas should stay fine for a couple of months, but if the fuel is questionable to begin with, that's another story. (If all the ethanol in a 13.5g tank evaporates and somehow escapes the tank, that is 1.35 gallons gone right there with a 10% blend).

 

Are you seeing better numbers right after a fillup?

 

I'm going to need a couple of months to give feedback, it is taking a week and a half to two weeks to go through a tank of gas now.

[kuzzi]

I read some more on the subject.

 

It seems that the power density doesnt necessarily change between the octane classes. I now believe that super premium fuel contains 10% ethanol at all times to boost the octane. What effect this ethanol has in terms of burning at the same rate as gasoline, I have no clue, but thermal BTUs are relatively the same.

 

For compression ratios above 11:1, a higher octane is suggested even with knock detection systems. The atkinson cycle ICE has a 12:1 ratio. So we may not know it but the engine could be trying to reduce knock with regular 87 octane and retard the timing, which kills our power which makes charging the HVB harder and consumes more fuel. These engines run at full throttle at a given rpm to charge the battery or provide driving power, and this could have an effect as well. That said, higher octane could prevent a knock, get the timing back in order, and provide more power.

 

Be careful with medium grade fuels as sometimes they are blended from the regular and super premium tanks at the pump, so if you are getting bad regular gas, it's still going to affect it. Then again you are getting more ethanol as well tgat could absorb moisture or evaporate.

[acdii]

I have been using BP fuels for at least a year now, and have not had any issues. My Flex i fill with 89 and get 21 in it, the Fusions fill with 87 and you saw my 10 getting high EPA, and hopefully the new one will do good on it too.

[Guardian_Bob]

So I was heading south on I-5 yesterday @ 65 MPH once my battery was at 80% charge. I reset the Avg MPG by holding OK in Empower. To my utter shock, I was getting 50 MPG+ while running at 65 MPH from the ICE alone. Granted it was flat, but still, that's much better than advertised.