Am I being bamboozled?

[nv rick]

I posted the following in the Lincoln MKZ forum and was referred here where there is obviously more discussion re hybrids. I would appreciate any insight as to whether what I was told is accurate.

 

I recently stopped in to a dealer to check out the MKZ Hybrid. I am in the middle of a 39 month MKS lease and am interested in the hybrid when I can get out of my current lease.

The salesman, after several questions, told me I would be better off with the non-hybrid model. He stated this was because I would not get any better mileage from the hybrid because I do not do a lot of city driving, and the battery depends on a lot of braking to recharge. He said that on the highway, the car would depend on the gas motor more than the battery.

I live in a semi-rural area, with few stop signs and lights. Most of my driving is at 50 or more mph.

I was hoping that the hybrid would give me all-around high mpg, especially when we take longer highway trips. We usually drive to and from Wisconsin from Nevada once a year, go into Las Vegas about twice a month (60 miles each way at around 75mph and includes going over a mountain pass) and go to southern CA once or twice a year. MPG around 40 would be nice. I am by no means a slow driver, and on interstate highways generally run around 80mph.

Can anyone tell me if they get exceptional mileage on long highway trips or if I would be better off with the non-hybrid model.

Edited May 7, 2013 by nv rick

[jeff_h]

You won't get exceptional highway mileage going 75-80, sounds like the non-hybrid is your better move.

[clummus]

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6491-should-i-get-the-gas-version-instead/?view=getnewpost

 

check that thread that I started a few weeks ago. won't he still get better mpg with the hybrid?

[corncobs]

I just finished a round trip from Chicago to LA via Denver (I80/I70/I15) and return via Albuquerque (I15/I40/I44/I55/I39) with our FFH.

 

I just did a quick calculation and it looks like both direction returned an average 36 MPG and the whole trip was driven at posted speed limit.

 

Now we would need some comparison to an gas only Fusion like the 1.6L EB since the HP is somewhat similar or you can say I'm happy with 36 MPG.

 

I wouldn't focus so much on the long drives more what you do day to day. Just my 2 cents.

Edited May 8, 2013 by corncobs

[GrySql]

Before I bought this FFH I thought of myself as a 'fast' driver too, the car was fast, and made it easy to go fast.

Now, to my complete bafflement, here I am driving the speed limit or so, enjoying the peace and quiet and arriving at my destination 10 minutes later but completely relaxed.

No longer do I hear the 300+ hp drone of the twin exhaust of the V-8, my hands are not clenched to the steering wheel and my predatory eye looking for the next car to pass or commenting on the idiot in front of me for only driving 5mph over the speed limit.

 

Things are changed after purchasing this FFH, took about a month of getting to know the car and it's been different ever since.

This car seems to calm me into a Zen-like acceptance of the ECOcruise at the speed limit or less.

I perform the 'Pulse and Glide' maneuver and beam at my left display when it Regen's and stores the next batch of of juice into my HVB so I can 'Glide' again.

What gives??

 

Now, I like it, it's addictive and perfectly alright to not be in the fast lane leaning forward with pulsing temples - calm is good.

My last trip to Phoenix was so easy, even though the highway speed limit is 75, the car still got better than 35mpg, fully loaded, 3 passengers with the A/C on.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to try something different - buy the hybrid.

But don't expect to get the posted EPA mileage all the time because habits are hard to break.

If you don't want to play the hybrid techno dashboard games we do, then do what you've been doing and buy a standard ICE vehicle.

 

BTW, the HVB charges at highway speeds (over 62mph) when you are using the ICE engine, and helps the ICE on hills, then charges again when going down hill.

City driving gathers the energy when braking (Regen) but that is in addition to the charging at other times.

See this new Topic for a full explanation of this process.

 

[tombarker13ffh]

Under the exact same conditions, the Fusion Hybrid was rated by the EPA at 47 MPG as the the 1.6 EcoBoost was rated at 37 mpg. Under no circumstance will you get better MPG in a gas version of the Fusion than the Hybrid version. It's ridiculous to hear this kind of talk come from salesmen no less. The Fusion Hybrid will outperform every other Fusion for fuel efficiency in any commute, no matter the speed. When you hear complaints of poor fuel economy in a Fusion Hybrid, the numbers are still a great improvement over gas models'. They are just not as high as buyers expected when they purchased the Hybrid.

[tombarker13ffh]

The Hybrid does not depend on braking at all to charge the battery, regenerative braking is just an extra way to recover some energy that is otherwise wasted. The big thing under the hood charges the hybrid battery. The Hybrid will exceptionally outperform gas models in slow city driving and highway speeds up to the 50-65mph range. At speeds of 70mph+, the increase in fuel economy may not be as drastic, but will be an increase nonetheless and the car will surprise you even at high speeds. If fuel economy, and not power, is your goal, then the Hybrid is the only choice.

[acdii]

The MKZ non Hy will NOT give you good highway gas mileage! If you get 30, you will be lucky. If you are looking to get a relaxing drive, and good gas mileage and have a Damned fine car, the MKZ Hybrid is the right choice. It will be a toss up for me in a few years, either a Fusion HyTi or MKZ Hy will be my next car.

[fusionTX]

If you hope to drive 80 miles per hour, you will be getting low 30s at best.

I have gotten 40 MPG on highway at 68 MPH. These numbers are my experience at sustained speeds (notraffic to slow me down).

The hybrid would probably do very well on your country roads, it's the highway portion that may not meet your current expectations.

 

With all its technology (ACC, maps, lane assist, BLISS) the car is very comfortable for a road trip and the driving is made easier, making you arrive a bit less stressed. It one more thing to consider.

Edited May 8, 2013 by fusionTX

[hybridbear]

I posted the following in the Lincoln MKZ forum and was referred here where there is obviously more discussion re hybrids. I would appreciate any insight as to whether what I was told is accurate.

 

I recently stopped in to a dealer to check out the MKZ Hybrid. I am in the middle of a 39 month MKS lease and am interested in the hybrid when I can get out of my current lease.

The salesman, after several questions, told me I would be better off with the non-hybrid model. He stated this was because I would not get any better mileage from the hybrid because I do not do a lot of city driving, and the battery depends on a lot of braking to recharge. He said that on the highway, the car would depend on the gas motor more than the battery.

I live in a semi-rural area, with few stop signs and lights. Most of my driving is at 50 or more mph.

I was hoping that the hybrid would give me all-around high mpg, especially when we take longer highway trips. We usually drive to and from Wisconsin from Nevada once a year, go into Las Vegas about twice a month (60 miles each way at around 75mph and includes going over a mountain pass) and go to southern CA once or twice a year. MPG around 40 would be nice. I am by no means a slow driver, and on interstate highways generally run around 80mph.

Can anyone tell me if they get exceptional mileage on long highway trips or if I would be better off with the non-hybrid model.

Since the price is equal between gas MKZ and MKZ Hybrid I do not understand why ANYONE would buy the gas MKZ. You will always do better in the hybrid, even at high speeds, than in a gas only car. Thanks GrySql for linking to the other thread that explains why that is the case. Plus in the small amount of city driving you do you will use half, or even only a third, of the gas you would be using in a gas only MKZ.

 

Like GrySql commented, the hybrid provides a wealth of information for you to be able to change your driving habits as well. So while you won't get the EPA highway rating of 45 MPG due to the unrealistic nature of the EPA test cycles, you will still do better than the gas only MKZ. When there's no price premium there's no reason to not buy the hybrid.

 

I don't understand why the salesman would tell you to not get the hybrid because you won't get better mileage when they're the same price. If the hybrid cost $2k more then that would be a little less egregious. But that is completely wrong. The hybrid will always perform better than the gas only model.

Edited May 8, 2013 by hybridbear

[GrySql]

I don't understand why the salesman would tell you to not get the hybrid

I suspect that the salesperson may have had several reasons for the pushing the gas MKZ.

 

* Probably had one available and wanted to move it.

* Never drove a hybrid except around the block, if that.

* Like a lot of the Ford Dealerships Sales personnel, is uneducated about hybrids in general and exactly how hybrids work.

 

This particular FFH Forum has the most informed 2013 Ford hybrid owners around, especially if other Forums are sending folks here for guidance.

Maybe each Dealership should require every Salesperson to read this Forum and be enlightened to the features, issues and driving techniques, in other words - how these cars work in the real world.

Wouldn't that be nice.

 

 

 

[Jamone]

Get the Fusion not the MKZ, the MKZ's nose is ugly. I get 39-41 MPH while cruising 75 mph with the hybrid, which is definitely more then the gas only would get.

[smr2112]

Yes, GrySql's logic is probably dead on. In fact sales of most everything on the planet

is motivated my money first, then the truth. I always consider that for everything being

sold/told to me.

 

I guarantee they had no or few hybrids on that lot. Don't you know the salesman's goal is to

get you into a new car ASAP and maximize profit? Some sound incredible for a sales person

to trash the hybrid, but knowing their motivation makes more sense.

 

Factor that in and then tell us if it makes sense?

[Da0ne]

dealers usually try to get you in what they have on the lot,

 

mine tried to put me in a c-max when i went to look at the fusion hybrid, i told him i wanted a midsize car and the fusion is what i wanted of course they had a titanium eb 2.0 in white right in the showroom and he right away tried to get me to buy that one but i didnt budge

[nv rick]

Yes, GrySql's logic is probably dead on. In fact sales of most everything on the planet

is motivated my money first, then the truth. I always consider that for everything being

sold/told to me.

 

I guarantee they had no or few hybrids on that lot. Don't you know the salesman's goal is to

get you into a new car ASAP and maximize profit? Some sound incredible for a sales person

to trash the hybrid, but knowing their motivation makes more sense.

 

Factor that in and then tell us if it makes sense?

Actually, the dealer did have similarly equipped cars both in hybrid and gas models, so I don't think he was being deceitful, maybe just ill informed.

The only other concern I now have is whether a cvt transmission will be a problem when climbing the mountain between Pahrump and Vegas, as well as the Rockies when going to wisconsin.

Anybody here do any serious mountain driving?

So far I am learning a lot here so thanks a lot.

Edited May 8, 2013 by nv rick

[corncobs]

Actually, the dealer did have similarly equipped cars both in hybrid and gas models, so I don't think he was being deceitful, maybe just ill informed.

The only other concern I now have is whether a cvt transmission will be a problem when climbing the mountain between Pahrump and Vegas, as well as the Rockies when going to wisconsin.

Anybody here do any serious mountain driving?

So far I am learning a lot here so thanks a lot.

Hi Rick check out my thread

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6530-chicago-to-la/

 

I just went thru some serious mountain driving. Honestly I prefer the eCVT since it adjusts the gear ratio based on demand and isn't contained by fixed shift points.

No issues at all going up the mountains at speed limit.

[dalesky]

Before I bought this FFH I thought of myself as a 'fast' driver too, the car was fast, and made it easy to go fast.

Now, to my complete bafflement, here I am driving the speed limit or so, enjoying the peace and quiet and arriving at my destination 10 minutes later but completely relaxed.

No longer do I hear the 300+ hp drone of the twin exhaust of the V-8, my hands are not clenched to the steering wheel and my predatory eye looking for the next car to pass or commenting on the idiot in front of me for only driving 5mph over the speed limit.

 

Things are changed after purchasing this FFH, took about a month of getting to know the car and it's been different ever since.

This car seems to calm me into a Zen-like acceptance of the ECOcruise at the speed limit or less.

I perform the 'Pulse and Glide' maneuver and beam at my left display when it Regen's and stores the next batch of of juice into my HVB so I can 'Glide' again.

What gives??

 

Now, I like it, it's addictive and perfectly alright to not be in the fast lane leaning forward with pulsing temples - calm is good.

My last trip to Phoenix was so easy, even though the highway speed limit is 75, the car still got better than 35mpg, fully loaded, 3 passengers with the A/C on.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to try something different - buy the hybrid.

But don't expect to get the posted EPA mileage all the time because habits are hard to break.

If you don't want to play the hybrid techno dashboard games we do, then do what you've been doing and buy a standard ICE vehicle.

 

BTW, the HVB charges at highway speeds (over 62mph) when you are using the ICE engine, and helps the ICE on hills, then charges again when going down hill.

City driving gathers the energy when braking (Regen) but that is in addition to the charging at other times.

See this new Topic for a full explanation of this process.

 

So nicely put- thank you for such a thoughtful posting. I too am trying to reach the zen state and find it relaxing to do so. In this car I have a different attitude, and want to drive it differently. I no longer wish to "compete" with other drivers for fast starts or move into different lanes just to maintain the posted speed. Easy does it applies here.

BTW, today my 9 mile drive from and to home, at 55 or under returned MPG of 49.8! Average since I got the car is 41.3. I knew that the EPA rating was unrealistic, so I am not disappointed in any way. Plus, this car is such a such a fun auto to drive- it corners like a sports car, the seats are very supportive, the entertainment system has great sound, and my phone has now downloaded my address book! What's not to like?

[nv rick]

Hi Rick check out my threadhttp://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6530-chicago-to-la/

I just went thru some serious mountain driving. Honestly I prefer the eCVT since it adjusts the gear ratio based on demand and isn't contained by fixed shift points.

No issues at all going up the mountains at speed limit.

Corncobs,

Thanks for the very interesting info on your thread. Much of your northern route is the one we take when we visit Wisconsin. With our '11 MKS, we aberage around 25mpg. (City driving is what kills the mpg when we go to Vegas. )

I am more convinced that when we can get out of our current lease that we will get an MKZ hybrid.

The folks on this forum have provided a lot of good info and hand holding.

[hybridbear]

Corncobs,

Thanks for the very interesting info on your thread. Much of your northern route is the one we take when we visit Wisconsin. With our '11 MKS, we aberage around 25mpg. (City driving is what kills the mpg when we go to Vegas. )

I am more convinced that when we can get out of our current lease that we will get an MKZ hybrid.

The folks on this forum have provided a lot of good info and hand holding.

The eCVT in our cars isn't like any other transmission out there. It isn't really that similar to the CVT transmissions in Nissans and other cars with all the belts to set the gear ratios.

Check out this link:

http://john1701a.com/prius/documents/Prius_Power-Split-Device.pdf

This is focused on the Prius but the eCVT in the Ford hybrids is the same thing, just with different sized gears, etc