Should I move up to the MKZH?

[georgeny]

FYI: The 4 Year/50k complimentary coverage plan for all Lincoln vehicles... nope, not on the MKZ Hybrid. Just like Ford with their Fusion Hybrid, every offer has the little asterisk saying *does not include Lincoln MKZ Hybrid / *does not include Ford Fusion Hybrid. So that benefit is null & void if it was a decision making factor for anyone. Personally it doesn't bother me, but I'm the type of person who will buy a new vehicle rather than deal with auto problems.

 

Interesting, see the same thing for offers of financing deals or cash backs EXCEPT Hybrid. For offers I can understand it in some ways as still hard to get item here in North East anyway, why discount. But cutting it from longer warranty I think that is bad business. What that says to me is that we expect you to have problems by fourth year and we don't want to be on hook for them. May or may not be the actual case but still says that to me. That is a deal breaker for me simply because I see no reason for it, making warranty LESS than any other you sell!!

 

George in NY

[bbf2530]

Interesting, see the same thing for offers of financing deals or cash backs EXCEPT Hybrid. For offers I can understand it in some ways as still hard to get item here in North East anyway, why discount. But cutting it from longer warranty I think that is bad business. What that says to me is that we expect you to have problems by fourth year and we don't want to be on hook for them. May or may not be the actual case but still says that to me. That is a deal breaker for me simply because I see no reason for it, making warranty LESS than any other you sell!!

 

George in NY

 

Hi George. :D You have contused confused :hysterical: two different subjects. So to try and explain (and so others do not get confused): The Lincoln Warranty on the Hybrid (Bumper to Bumper and Powertrain) is not being discussed here. What is being discussed is a new "Complementary Coverage" Plan. The "4 Year/50k Complimentary Coverage Plan" being discussed here has nothing to do with Warranty coverage, it deals with oil changes, brake pad replacements, wiper refills, etc.. It has absolutely nothing to do with the 4 Year/50,000 Mile Lincoln New Car Bumper to Bumper or 6 year/70,000 miles Powertrain Warranties (coverages on Hybrid unique components are even longer, 8 years/100,000miles). The MKZ Hybrid still has the same or better (on Hybrid components) Warranty coverage as other Lincoln vehicles.

 

That being said, I don't know the reasoning behind excluding the MKZ Hybrid from the "Complementary Service" coverage, but the Vehicle Warranty is still in place, same as (or better) than non-Hybrid Lincolns.

 

Don't know if this link will work, but if it does, you can find the 2011 MKZ Hybrid Warranty Guide here: LINK: 2011 MKZ Hybrid Warranty Guide

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited December 22, 2010 by bbf2530

[georgeny]

Hi George. :D You have contused two different subjects. So to try and explain (and so others do not get confused): The Lincoln Warranty on the Hybrid (Bumper to Bumper and Powertrain) is not being discussed here. What is being discussed is a new "Complementary Coverage Plan. The "4 Year/50k Complimentary Coverage Plan" being discussed here has nothing to do with Warranty coverage, it deals with oil changes, brake pad replacements, wiper refills, etc.. It has absolutely nothing to do with the 4 Year/50.000 Mile Lincoln New Car Bumper to Bumper or 6 year/70,000 miles Powertrain Warranties (coverages on Hybrid unique components are even longer, 8 years/100,000miles). The MKZ Hybrid still has the same or better (on Hybrid components) Warranty coverage as other Lincoln vehicles.

 

Thanks for the clarification! The oil change etc would not be a deal breaker. Still one must wonder why they exclude hybrid from any coverage.

 

Thanks

 

George in NY

[bbf2530]

Thanks for the clarification! The oil change etc would not be a deal breaker. Still one must wonder why they exclude hybrid from any coverage.

 

Thanks

 

George in NY

 

Hi George. :D You are very welcome. But I agree with you and wonder about that also.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[jrwinsurance]

I recently bought a Ford Fusion Hybrid with the 502A package, with all the bells and whistles (including the remote start, premium floormats, etc). The entire cost of this vehicle was about $34850 after taxes and fees. I don't need to tell you how incredibly awesome this vehicle has been for the past two weeks. We all know the FFH is a fantastic automobile. The reason I'm writing this is because I had the pleasure of test-driving a Lincoln Hybrid, as well. The THX sound system was divine, but you would really have to have the sharpest ears on the planet to tell any difference between it and the Sony 12-speaker system that comes with the FFH 502-A package. The Scottish leather interior was nice in the Lincoln, supple and buttery, with a slightly different stitch. The cabin was just a tad nicer overall, but really, besides those two features, the Lincoln handled about the same as the FFH. It was just as quiet, just as pleasant a ride, and the Sync and Navi features were virtually indistinguishable. But the price on the Lincoln was a whopping $43400 after taxes and fees, and it's just not worth the extra premium, in my opinion. Superficially, I might also point out the fact that the Lincoln brand name and logo made me feel slightly like a ...senior citizen? Sorry if that offends anyone, but come on, Lincoln is a car for mature (old) drivers. Ford has a younger feel, more hip styling inside and out, and with the premium package, you feel like you're driving a luxury car. I cannot tell the difference between the Ford and the Lincoln as far as the "roadfeel," but I know that I'm extremely happy with the FFH, and I'm glad I didn't pay $9000 more for what is essentially the same car.

[jim_0068]

I recently bought a Ford Fusion Hybrid with the 502A package, with all the bells and whistles (including the remote start, premium floormats, etc). The entire cost of this vehicle was about $34850 after taxes and fees. I don't need to tell you how incredibly awesome this vehicle has been for the past two weeks. We all know the FFH is a fantastic automobile. The reason I'm writing this is because I had the pleasure of test-driving a Lincoln Hybrid, as well. The THX sound system was divine, but you would really have to have the sharpest ears on the planet to tell any difference between it and the Sony 12-speaker system that comes with the FFH 502-A package. The Scottish leather interior was nice in the Lincoln, supple and buttery, with a slightly different stitch. The cabin was just a tad nicer overall, but really, besides those two features, the Lincoln handled about the same as the FFH. It was just as quiet, just as pleasant a ride, and the Sync and Navi features were virtually indistinguishable. But the price on the Lincoln was a whopping $43400 after taxes and fees, and it's just not worth the extra premium, in my opinion. Superficially, I might also point out the fact that the Lincoln brand name and logo made me feel slightly like a ...senior citizen? Sorry if that offends anyone, but come on, Lincoln is a car for mature (old) drivers. Ford has a younger feel, more hip styling inside and out, and with the premium package, you feel like you're driving a luxury car. I cannot tell the difference between the Ford and the Lincoln as far as the "roadfeel," but I know that I'm extremely happy with the FFH, and I'm glad I didn't pay $9000 more for what is essentially the same car.

 

Amazing how different people feel or hear different things right? I have been test driving both the FFH and the MKZ hybrids and trying to make this decision myself; I am coming from a 1996 Lexus LS400.

 

Sound System: The THX in the MKZ is much much better than the Sony in the FFH in regards to actual sound and how "clean" it sounds. While the FFH was very boomy the mids/highs sounded very muffled no matter how i adjusted the settings on the stereo. It was immediately noticeable to me when i got back in my 15 year old Lexus that my standard system sounded better :-\ than the Sony in the FFH. The MKZ had a much higher premium sound to it especially as you turned it up and the bass wasn't as overwhelming. Also, typically this is kind of how better sound systems goes....worse sounding systems tend to over compensate with boomy bass to make you not notice the dirty highs. However maybe i am just picky because jrwinsurance didn't notice.

 

Interior: This is hard to describe, it isn't that the MKZ is leaps and bounds better than the FFH but it's enough to make you kind of go "aaahhh this is nice." The best way to describe it is with my current cars, as mentioned i have a LS400 and my fiance has a Camry. Both are nice cars but when either of us go from the LS400 to the Camry you can just tell and feel it isn't as nice; even if it is just purely mental and a shallow feeling you can't deny that it's there. Also it's the simple touches (note i'm comparing with fully spec'd out MKZ). For instance how clean and neatly laid out the controls are versus the FFH, the MKZ seems more organized and because they have plenty of material around the controls with the NAV screen up higher it gives the illusion of more room where as in the FFH i felt everything was too close together and not as ergonomic and cramped. Speaking of NAV, it's simply at a higher position and is better for glancing at; this might effect glare slightly but i'd rather glance to the right than glance right AND down. Added to the previous you get memory seating which is great since both my Fiance and I both drive my current Lexus a lot more than her Camry (probably would carryover with FFH or MKZ since it is hybrid and we live in the city) and it's nice to not have to find your best spot every time. Also with the MKZ you get cooled seats along with the heated which you wouldn't think is a big deal until you have a car with leather interior in the summer and the sun is beating down on it and you sit down and it's so hot it actually stings a bit. I have a friend with a M45 with heated/cooled seats and the cooling really helps with your overall comfort. Last, in regards to sound it is definitely quieter than the FFH. I have read that the MKZ has more sound deadening material to keep it quieter and i would attest to that, one of the ways you can tell is when you go over bumpy roads. Typically the sound from the suspension travels much further than simple road noise and i heard less of it in the MKZ than in the Fusion. When comparing road noise it isn't that big of a difference but when louder noises are introduced (as i said bumpy roads are good to test it on) you can tell the difference. Maybe my ears are just more sensitive since i'm used to how quiet my LS400 is but i could tell.

 

Ride/Feel: This is very subtle but again it's there, the MKZ is definitely damped softer (which probably also helps with the lower interior noise as i noted above). However with this softer dampening the trade off is typically the overall handling isn't as tight and this was evident in my road test. I found some short radius turns and took them at a speed that would test this and also a by product is you get to test the body roll and it was evident the MKZ had a softer feel in the turn and more body roll than the FFH did. Again all of these things are subtle and maybe i'm more sensitive because i've grown up in cushy cars (note i've also owned a few street/strip cars so i know over sprung cars too): i own a LS400, my dad has been a chauffeur his whole life so i've been in town cars and limos for the majority of my youth and even got a 95 town car as a hand me down years ago (side note best motor ford every built, original motor had 340,000 miles on it when i sold it and while it went through about a quart of oil a month it will was only like 1 or 2 less MPG than what the EPA rated and was the comfiest ride i ever had).

 

Other noticeable differences (superficial or not) that i found:

-Adaptive HID lighting vs. normal halogen, really no argument here except that HID repair is ridiculous if it ever happens not under warranty. Also don't say you can install HID's on the FFH. You are only installing bulbs and it isn't the same as you are introducing a ton of glare on oncoming traffic since you have a lens that is designed for halogen. While it "works" it really isn't optimal at all.

-Chrome wheels look really nice against all the paint jobs except the blue/red imo versus the brushed look on the FFH which can be rectified on the FFH but that is more cost.

-stigma: no doubt about it that Lincoln is looked at more of a premium purchase over a normal Ford especially in the business world where some of that still counts. Now obviously it isn't a European ride (BMW,Benz, Audi) but it carries a bit more weight than just a Ford. Plus the MKZ reminds me of the older Lincoln LS sedan which was aimed at the younger professional segment. This does apply to me as i work in corporate finance.

-exterior styling, flip a coin on whether you like the MKZ or the FFH better. Both are nice imo.

 

I have been doing a ton of research and have extensively test driven both cars which you can probably tell by my lengthy post but i hoped i have helped some other people who are comparing these two cars. I tried to cover all the main differences i could find and even after all the above even i still don't know if i can justify the price premium since i can find a used 2010 fully loaded with ~ 20k miles for about $25-$27k versus $40k for a fully loaded MKZ but it is brand new. It's even difficult for me to justify an additional $13-$15k for it all or if you are comparing 2011 FFH vs 2011 MKZ (fully loaded) it's less probably in the $5-$7k range.

 

If anyone has any questions for me feel free to ask.

 

Thanks

 

EDIT:

 

One thing i just remembered: I am extremely disappointed that Lincoln didn't AT LEAST put in a power steering column instead of simply using the manually adjusted tilt/telescoping of the FFH. If i was in charge at lincoln whoever left this out and/or didn't think to add it should be fired immediately. This is one of the nicest features of owning a luxury vehicle because this also goes into memory for different drivers and it also adds to the entry/exit of the vehicle. For God's sake my 15 year old Lexus has one and while i haven't test drove the Lexus 250H i would bet it has a powered tilt/telescoping. This was a BIG MISS in my opinion.

Edited March 11, 2011 by jim_0068

[CometFlash]

Thanks jim, good read/info.

 

I came from an '09 F-150 Platinum with every option imaginable, so stepping down from that to an FFH was def an adjustment in terms of luxury. And you're right, not only are memory seats nice, but my Platinum had a cool feature where every time you took key out of ignition, the seat would go all the way back and the steering wheel all the way up, for ease of exit. When you got in the truck, as soon as you put key in, everything would automatically move into your perfect position again. VERY cool feature which not even the MKZH has, unfortunately. The Platinum had it over the MKZH/FFH in every way imaginable, except fuel economy. So I agree it's a big adjustment going down, but then again, it's all about $aving with a hybrid purchase. That's part of the reason it's hard for a lot of people to justify the price premium of the Lincoln over the Ford, since it has some nice features, but is it truly worth that much more? Hard question to answer.

 

I will also throw my 2 cents in and say that the A/C seats are nice, but certainly not a game changer. I had them in my Platinum, and while nice, in no way will I miss them when the hot weather hits as I hardly used them, in fact felt like I used 'em more because I had them than because I needed to for any reason. And I've had leather in all my vehicles since 1997. Never been an issue, and I always get black interiors. (Strange having grey in my FFH, but it was a "preowned" great deal, not a special order like I have always done before with all my new trucks.

 

Recently I've noticed a squeek in my FFH that I can't find the source off that's driving me crazy. When first looking at both vehicles, one thing I always talked about was how the reviews said the MKZH was much quieter and how important that was for me. Well, looks like those reviews were correct, and now I'm wondering if I shouldn't move in that direction, although with the rumored all-new 2013's around the corner now, I may wait and deal with the noise until I see what the changes/improvements are and maybe snag one of those when they hit. Plus my USB port isn't recognized anymore either, which is pretty ridiculous too, though the squeek is what will drive me nuts and force my hand at some point.

 

Hopefully for 2013 they'll get a lot more luxury items involved, like the Easy Entry/Exit Feature, MyFord Touch, Heated Steering Wheel, stuff like that.

[jim_0068]

Comet,

 

My brothers caddy SLS (luxury version of the STS) had the same easy entry/exit you describe in your platinum. My friends M45 has the same as well, definitely nice stuff however since i never had it not something I'll miss but I'm sure you miss it. As for the cooled seats you are correct it ISN'T a game changer, it goes into the "ahh it's nice" category. I know every time i got into my Lexus and older Towncar when that leather was hot or my back was slightly sweating it sure would be nice.

 

I get you on the rattles/squeaks, i can't stand them either which is one reason i left sports cars and came back to cushy plush rides. My last car before the lexus was a SRT-4 and to this day it was the most fun car i have ever owned. Paid 15k for it and put $1500 in mods in it and it ran mid 12 quarters all day long with drag radial tires on the front wheels. Almost made half the cost back in street racing (true story). But at the end of the day it was a cheaply constructed car and the rattles/squeaks along with the hard stiff ride drove me nuts and traded it in for the Lexus.

[westlakeed]

Amazing how different people feel or hear different things right? I have been test driving both the FFH and the MKZ hybrids and trying to make this decision myself; I am coming from a 1996 Lexus LS400.

 

Sound System: The THX in the MKZ is much much better than the Sony in the FFH in regards to actual sound and how "clean" it sounds. While the FFH was very boomy the mids/highs sounded very muffled no matter how i adjusted the settings on the stereo. It was immediately noticeable to me when i got back in my 15 year old Lexus that my standard system sounded better :-\ than the Sony in the FFH. The MKZ had a much higher premium sound to it especially as you turned it up and the bass wasn't as overwhelming. Also, typically this is kind of how better sound systems goes....worse sounding systems tend to over compensate with boomy bass to make you not notice the dirty highs. However maybe i am just picky because jrwinsurance didn't notice.

 

Interior: This is hard to describe, it isn't that the MKZ is leaps and bounds better than the FFH but it's enough to make you kind of go "aaahhh this is nice." The best way to describe it is with my current cars, as mentioned i have a LS400 and my fiance has a Camry. Both are nice cars but when either of us go from the LS400 to the Camry you can just tell and feel it isn't as nice; even if it is just purely mental and a shallow feeling you can't deny that it's there. Also it's the simple touches (note i'm comparing with fully spec'd out MKZ). For instance how clean and neatly laid out the controls are versus the FFH, the MKZ seems more organized and because they have plenty of material around the controls with the NAV screen up higher it gives the illusion of more room where as in the FFH i felt everything was too close together and not as ergonomic and cramped. Speaking of NAV, it's simply at a higher position and is better for glancing at; this might effect glare slightly but i'd rather glance to the right than glance right AND down. Added to the previous you get memory seating which is great since both my Fiance and I both drive my current Lexus a lot more than her Camry (probably would carryover with FFH or MKZ since it is hybrid and we live in the city) and it's nice to not have to find your best spot every time. Also with the MKZ you get cooled seats along with the heated which you wouldn't think is a big deal until you have a car with leather interior in the summer and the sun is beating down on it and you sit down and it's so hot it actually stings a bit. I have a friend with a M45 with heated/cooled seats and the cooling really helps with your overall comfort. Last, in regards to sound it is definitely quieter than the FFH. I have read that the MKZ has more sound deadening material to keep it quieter and i would attest to that, one of the ways you can tell is when you go over bumpy roads. Typically the sound from the suspension travels much further than simple road noise and i heard less of it in the MKZ than in the Fusion. When comparing road noise it isn't that big of a difference but when louder noises are introduced (as i said bumpy roads are good to test it on) you can tell the difference. Maybe my ears are just more sensitive since i'm used to how quiet my LS400 is but i could tell.

 

Ride/Feel: This is very subtle but again it's there, the MKZ is definitely damped softer (which probably also helps with the lower interior noise as i noted above). However with this softer dampening the trade off is typically the overall handling isn't as tight and this was evident in my road test. I found some short radius turns and took them at a speed that would test this and also a by product is you get to test the body roll and it was evident the MKZ had a softer feel in the turn and more body roll than the FFH did. Again all of these things are subtle and maybe i'm more sensitive because i've grown up in cushy cars (note i've also owned a few street/strip cars so i know over sprung cars too): i own a LS400, my dad has been a chauffeur his whole life so i've been in town cars and limos for the majority of my youth and even got a 95 town car as a hand me down years ago (side note best motor ford every built, original motor had 340,000 miles on it when i sold it and while it went through about a quart of oil a month it will was only like 1 or 2 less MPG than what the EPA rated and was the comfiest ride i ever had).

 

Other noticeable differences (superficial or not) that i found:

-Adaptive HID lighting vs. normal halogen, really no argument here except that HID repair is ridiculous if it ever happens not under warranty. Also don't say you can install HID's on the FFH. You are only installing bulbs and it isn't the same as you are introducing a ton of glare on oncoming traffic since you have a lens that is designed for halogen. While it "works" it really isn't optimal at all.

-Chrome wheels look really nice against all the paint jobs except the blue/red imo versus the brushed look on the FFH which can be rectified on the FFH but that is more cost.

-stigma: no doubt about it that Lincoln is looked at more of a premium purchase over a normal Ford especially in the business world where some of that still counts. Now obviously it isn't a European ride (BMW,Benz, Audi) but it carries a bit more weight than just a Ford. Plus the MKZ reminds me of the older Lincoln LS sedan which was aimed at the younger professional segment. This does apply to me as i work in corporate finance.

-exterior styling, flip a coin on whether you like the MKZ or the FFH better. Both are nice imo.

 

I have been doing a ton of research and have extensively test driven both cars which you can probably tell by my lengthy post but i hoped i have helped some other people who are comparing these two cars. I tried to cover all the main differences i could find and even after all the above even i still don't know if i can justify the price premium since i can find a used 2010 fully loaded with ~ 20k miles for about $25-$27k versus $40k for a fully loaded MKZ but it is brand new. It's even difficult for me to justify an additional $13-$15k for it all or if you are comparing 2011 FFH vs 2011 MKZ (fully loaded) it's less probably in the $5-$7k range.

 

If anyone has any questions for me feel free to ask.

 

Thanks

 

EDIT:

 

One thing i just remembered: I am extremely disappointed that Lincoln didn't AT LEAST put in a power steering column instead of simply using the manually adjusted tilt/telescoping of the FFH. If i was in charge at lincoln whoever left this out and/or didn't think to add it should be fired immediately. This is one of the nicest features of owning a luxury vehicle because this also goes into memory for different drivers and it also adds to the entry/exit of the vehicle. For God's sake my 15 year old Lexus has one and while i haven't test drove the Lexus 250H i would bet it has a powered tilt/telescoping. This was a BIG MISS in my opinion.

 

I can give you all the information you want about the MKZ Hybrid as I purchased one 3 weeks ago. By the way, it does come with the 4yr/50k complimentary maintenance package just like all other Lincolns. It is much quieter than the FFH and the ride is superior. The interior ( I have the executive package) is glove leather soft and has suede inserts. While it shares a similar style with the FFH, it is very noticeably a different automobile. If you'd like any more feedback, please let me know.