Unfixable problem

[rayo250]

Hey all.... I have spent the last 7 months trying to get the auto lamp funtion repaired on my 2010 Fusion Hybrid..

My car has spent a total of 5 weeks in the shop (off and on) to no avail.

The dealership has swapped parts from a new Fusion and the parts from mine into the new car... my parts work in new car and the parts from the new car do not work in mine.

 

I have been in contact with a VP of Ford Canada and we have had numerous disscussions in regards to this.

 

At one point about 3 weeks ago, he indicated, after speaking to the dealership and the Ford engineering department, that he was going to work on getting the car replaced for me as no solution is in sight.

(Unfortunately in Canada there are no lemon laws)

 

Sounds good right ?

 

I thought so too and thanked him...

At that point, I thought all would be well..

 

Not so fast..

 

Ford could not find a 2010 Fusion with the same options as mine (well dressed). So everthing went on hold for a week or so.

Upon contacting the VP at Ford Canada, I was told that since there was no 2010 available, I could go and order a 2011 at the dealership, take my car there for an appraisal and just refinance the new car for the difference on the payout of my 2010.

Upon looking into this.... I would be on the hook of approximate $ 15,000 difference..

And that is just not duable for me....

When I told this to the VP of Ford Canada... he got upset and ranted that he should not even be dealing with this problem... and that it should be between the Dealership and the Engineering department.

I then asked what course of action I would have left if I cannot afford to buy a new Fusion when my current on is only a year old.

I was told that then the car will have to be repaired under warranty.... To which I repled... ok... but my question is ..... if it is not fixable after 7 months.... when will it be fixed ? And what other "Gremlins" are lurking in the background to probably appear after the car goes off of warranty?

 

No response..

 

Sorry for the rant but as a VP of Ford Canada... he would have not had a problem just giving me a 2011 Hybrid with the same options and used the opportunity to show the world that FORD DOES CARE..It would have made a great Public Relations commercial

 

Now... I will not be buying a new Ford product any time soon...Hope that no further glitches show up in this car and will be looking for a hybrid from another manufacturer in 2 years.

I hear that the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid is coming in 2012... and I will be taking a serious look at it...

 

FORD CANADA.... I am so dissapointed in you.

[akirby]

Sounds like your dealer is clueless. Go find another dealer and give them a shot at fixing it. Since Ford doesn't actually do the warranty repairs I find it hard to blame them at this point.

 

Have you priced the car on the open market to see the difference between it and a 2011? Sounds like the same inept dealer is lowballing you on the trade-in (again - not Ford's fault).

 

I bet another dealer will either fix the problem or give you a better deal on a new one.

[rfruth]

hey rayo, we need more than a rant about the last 7 months trying to get the auto lamp function repaired to try & come up with a fix or a work around you can live with (could be you don't want that) I heard about the Hyundai, very gutsy of them to go with a six-speed auto not a e-cvt (they are hoping for better city & highway MPG) heres to zero problems !

[eneg]

hey rayo, we need more than a rant about the last 7 months trying to get the auto lamp function repaired to try & come up with a fix or a work around you can live with (could be you don't want that) I heard about the Hyundai, very gutsy of them to go with a six-speed auto not a e-cvt (they are hoping for better city & highway MPG) heres to zero problems !

Geez, you consider Rayo250's post a rant?

Really?

To spend over 30k on a new car, only to have it in for repair for 5 weeks isn't that great of an experience!

 

That's the only thing that worries me about these cars.

I have one on order which I'll probably get in a month or so.

I really don't think that these idiots at the dealership are capable of fixing any problems with the electronics in these new cars!

 

Just have to hope to get a car that is reliable. If not, whew!

[Oman]

Ok, I have to take this with a grain of salt. First off, there is no description of the problem. Second - Ford pays the dealer for the repair work. I have seen shoddy/clueless dealer repair people and usually Ford brings in "outside help" when the bill starts to get big enough. The car is complex but the systems are well documented and tested. There are tools available at the district engineering level for full CANbus diagnostics. There are two busses on the FFH that everything talks through and they can both be fully snooped. If the SJB is swapped out and the problem still happens then it is elsewhere and there are only so many inputs into the lighting portion of the SJB.

 

Just saying...

 

 

Jon

 

 

Geez, you consider Rayo250's post a rant?

Really?

To spend over 30k on a new car, only to have it in for repair for 5 weeks isn't that great of an experience!

 

That's the only thing that worries me about these cars.

I have one on order which I'll probably get in a month or so.

I really don't think that these idiots at the dealership are capable of fixing any problems with the electronics in these new cars!

 

Just have to hope to get a car that is reliable. If not, whew!

[xmech2k]

He posted this description under 'Articles, News, & Reviews':

 

Hi all..

 

I am new here but am looking forward to all your responses....

I have a 2010 Fusion Hybrid (bought August /09)

I currently have about 21,000 KMS (I am from Canada) and the car has run basically flawless since I got it.

The problem I am having is with the AutoLamp function..

 

First some details on how it is supposed to work...

 

A---With the car in gear and the headlight switch in the off position:

 

-Just the daytime running lights should be on.. No tail lights, park lights or Fog lights (if turned on)

-The dash lights should be off (other than the LCD Display which will be bright) and you should be able to see the “defrost” , “rear defrost” , or “AC” etc indicators very clearly.

 

B---With the car in gear and the headlight switch in the Headlight on position:

 

The headlights should brighten to be fully on..

The tail lights, park lights and fog lights (if turned on) should be on

The interior dash lights should all be on and the LCD Display would be adjustable if it appears to be too bright in the “less light conditions”

The dash indicator lights for the “defrost” , “rear defrost” , or “AC” etc. should be on but much dimmer that when the headlight switch is off.

 

C--With the headlight switch in the Auto position:

 

In any daylight condition and even with a light over cast, the car should be functioning as if things were in condition “A” above.

 

When entering the evening hours, or a heavy overcast day, the Auto function would determine if the headlights are required and the car should function as indicated above by condition “B” above.

 

During the normal daylight hours when entering a tunnel of more than 5 seconds of travel, a garage, carwash etc. .. the AUTO switch should turn the instrumentation to the “B” condition and when exiting the tunnel, car wash

etc…. switch back to the “A” condition within 10 seconds or so..

 

When I got the car... that is how it worked.. (it worked the same as my 2 previous chevs that I had)

What has happened since ...... with the switch in the autolamp position... the headlights, dashlights, tail lights were turning themseleves off and on at ramdom during the day (night time when it is dark... all is ok)

This went from once in a while to 10- 12 times in a couple of minutes... I stopped using it and called the dealer..

After they looked at it ... they say it needed a "Sunshine" sensor.... It was put in... and the random turning on and off went away... BUT.. Now the autolamp position acted as if it was in the Headlamp position.

Called the dealership.... Took the car in .. After they did their diagnositcs.. they found a defective module related to exactly what ... I do not know...

The module was changed and it involved reprograming the keys so I expect it was a major controller of some type.. When I got the car back I noticed most of the settings (except for the milage) had returned to the factory default.

Not a big deal...

BUT... I still have the exact same problem..

Do any of you have any suggestions for me to take back to the dealer so that I can get this resolved... It is not a big deal but I find it maddening that something on my Fusion is not up to 100 % ..

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Ray

 

 

Is your windshield tinted? :hysterical: You need to find another dealership.

[Waldo]

Sounds like it's probably a bent pin or a short/open circuit in the harness going to the sunlamp sensor. If the module doesn't get any signal from the sensor it will default to the on position. Any monkey with a voltmeter should be able to figure that out.

[xmech2k]

Any monkey with a voltmeter should be able to figure that out.

 

Yeah, but it can be a real pita if it's intermittent. Have to go in and start wiggling the harness and stuff and see if you can get it to coincide with your wiggling.

[rayo250]

Yeah, but it can be a real pita if it's intermittent. Have to go in and start wiggling the harness and stuff and see if you can get it to coincide with your wiggling.

 

As of today October 12/2010 , The dealership has changed the sensor, wiring harness, smart junction box and other electronic components. They have also swapped out almost all the electronics (except for the dash itself) with a brand new hybrid.

Everything from my car works in the new car and the parts from the new car do not fix the problem in my car..

 

And other suggestions....?

 

At this point the Engineering department at Ford Canada and the Ford USA division are completely stumped...

 

And I must say the the dealership has bent over backwards to be acccomedating to me.

 

And the point is I paid big $ to have a Fusion Hybrid working 100%.... Not 95% and (you can live with the glitch).

 

I am sure that this "gliltch" is eventually going to lead to a major short occuring somewhere else in the system at one point in the future.

[rayo250]

As of today October 12/2010 , The dealership has changed the sensor, wiring harness, smart junction box and other electronic components. They have also swapped out almost all the electronics (except for the dash itself) with a brand new hybrid.

Everything from my car works in the new car and the parts from the new car do not fix the problem in my car..

 

And other suggestions....?

 

At this point the Engineering department at Ford Canada and the Ford USA division are completely stumped...

 

And I must say the the dealership has bent over backwards to be acccomedating to me.

 

And the point is I paid big $ to have a Fusion Hybrid working 100%.... Not 95% and (you can live with the glitch).

 

I am sure that this "gliltch" is eventually going to lead to a major short occuring somewhere else in the system at one point in the future.

 

 

And I forgot to add that the problem is ALL the time ... not intermittent...

[Waldo]

As of today October 12/2010 , The dealership has changed the sensor, wiring harness, smart junction box and other electronic components. They have also swapped out almost all the electronics (except for the dash itself) with a brand new hybrid.

Everything from my car works in the new car and the parts from the new car do not fix the problem in my car..

 

And other suggestions....?

 

At this point the Engineering department at Ford Canada and the Ford USA division are completely stumped...

 

And I must say the the dealership has bent over backwards to be acccomedating to me.

 

And the point is I paid big $ to have a Fusion Hybrid working 100%.... Not 95% and (you can live with the glitch).

 

I am sure that this "gliltch" is eventually going to lead to a major short occuring somewhere else in the system at one point in the future.

 

Which wiring harness have they changed? There are many of them.

[rayo250]

Which wiring harness have they changed? There are many of them.

 

They have changed the wiring harness for the autolamp sensor on the dash, the harnesses from the Smart Juction box to the controller boards...

Still no good... It was just in today for another "test" that the Engineering department at Ford Canada recommended... They swapped out the Smart Junction box with a new one complete with harnesses.

 

This did not fix the problem and now a new one has shown up... the ambient lighting in the car no longer works.... and it is not the fuse as the moon roof is also on the same fuse.

(I make it a point to spend at least 20 minutes at the dealership checking out all the functions each time I pick up the car to show them if something else has gone wrong or not working.)

 

I have been in touch with one of the VP (there are dozens) and basically it is like spitting in the wind..... He talks a big game, promises the moon, and then hides behind company policies....

Larry (Last name not shown at this time)... needs to step up to the plate for Ford..

 

Or somebody should..

[Waldo]

They have changed the wiring harness for the autolamp sensor on the dash, the harnesses from the Smart Juction box to the controller boards...

 

 

I'm pretty sure the only way to do that is to pull the entire dash, did they really do that?

 

What about the headlamp switch or the windshield wiper module? Have they swapped those?

[rayo250]

I'm pretty sure the only way to do that is to pull the entire dash, did they really do that?

 

What about the headlamp switch or the windshield wiper module? Have they swapped those?

 

I have seen the car with the center of the dash removed and when they changed the Smart junction box.... I have a new number code to use the keypad for the door (twice now)

I have already asked that they change out the entire dash (which houses the main "computer" ) as there may be a software glitch in there. Afterall .... it is Microsoft...

And yes, they replaced the headlight switch on the 3rd time the car went in.... no difference..

 

I was told that they cannot do that until authorized from the Engineering department of Ford Canada.. On my last visit, I requested that the service manager and the electronics manager go over the heads of the techs at Engineering and speak to someone with authority and get the complete dash with components in and swap it out.... I am sure they can reprogram the milage on to the odometer...

 

I am waiting to hear back as we speak but knowing Ford .... it will be a couple of weeks before there is a response...

[Waldo]

The smart junction box IS the main computer. The only thing in the car that is microsoft is the SYNC module, which feeds directly into the audio system and in no way is related to autolamps.

 

These are the only components related to autolamps:

 

Headlamp switch

Windshield wiper module

Smart Junction box

Headlamps

Ambient light sensor

The wires that connect them all

 

The signals from each module can be read over the network. If there is any problem in the wiring, the headlamps will default to on, ust like they are doing. If they have changed all of those components, then the problem must be in the wiring. The wiring can be diagnosed with a multimeter, following the procedures in the shop manual.

[rayo250]

The smart junction box IS the main computer. The only thing in the car that is microsoft is the SYNC module, which feeds directly into the audio system and in no way is related to autolamps.

 

These are the only components related to autolamps:

 

Headlamp switch

Windshield wiper module

Smart Junction box

Headlamps

Ambient light sensor

The wires that connect them all

 

The signals from each module can be read over the network. If there is any problem in the wiring, the headlamps will default to on, ust like they are doing. If they have changed all of those components, then the problem must be in the wiring. The wiring can be diagnosed with a multimeter, following the procedures in the shop manual.

 

 

I will pass this on to the dealership.... Hopefully they have looked at all you have mentioned and are going to call me shortly to bring the car back in for more "tests / work"

[MrMikeL]

OK, so someone wants a new car because a bell/whistle isn't working? PULEEEEAAASE!!

[rayo250]

OK, so someone wants a new car because a bell/whistle isn't working? PULEEEEAAASE!!

 

 

Yo ... Buddy..... I paid over $ 35,000 for a complete car..... I am not asking for a new car.... I just want a complete car....

 

I'll bet you would be happy if your 4 slice toaster only cooked 3 slices at a time...

 

 

I paid for all those "bells and whistles" and I EXPECT THEM TO WORK..

[MrMikeL]

If you paid $35,000, you overpaid.

[rayo250]

If you paid $35,000, you overpaid.

 

I am in Canada and we get hooped for everything...

 

And I might add that if you don't have anything constructive to add to this posting.... please move on....

[hondaconvert]

Hey all.... I have spent the last 7 months trying to get the auto lamp funtion repaired on my 2010 Fusion Hybrid..

My car has spent a total of 5 weeks in the shop (off and on) to no avail.

The dealership has swapped parts from a new Fusion and the parts from mine into the new car... my parts work in new car and the parts from the new car do not work in mine.

 

I have been in contact with a VP of Ford Canada and we have had numerous disscussions in regards to this.

 

At one point about 3 weeks ago, he indicated, after speaking to the dealership and the Ford engineering department, that he was going to work on getting the car replaced for me as no solution is in sight.

(Unfortunately in Canada there are no lemon laws)

 

Sounds good right ?

 

I thought so too and thanked him...

At that point, I thought all would be well..

 

Not so fast..

 

Ford could not find a 2010 Fusion with the same options as mine (well dressed). So everthing went on hold for a week or so.

Upon contacting the VP at Ford Canada, I was told that since there was no 2010 available, I could go and order a 2011 at the dealership, take my car there for an appraisal and just refinance the new car for the difference on the payout of my 2010.

Upon looking into this.... I would be on the hook of approximate $ 15,000 difference..

And that is just not duable for me....

When I told this to the VP of Ford Canada... he got upset and ranted that he should not even be dealing with this problem... and that it should be between the Dealership and the Engineering department.

I then asked what course of action I would have left if I cannot afford to buy a new Fusion when my current on is only a year old.

I was told that then the car will have to be repaired under warranty.... To which I repled... ok... but my question is ..... if it is not fixable after 7 months.... when will it be fixed ? And what other "Gremlins" are lurking in the background to probably appear after the car goes off of warranty?

 

No response..

 

Sorry for the rant but as a VP of Ford Canada... he would have not had a problem just giving me a 2011 Hybrid with the same options and used the opportunity to show the world that FORD DOES CARE..It would have made a great Public Relations commercial

 

Now... I will not be buying a new Ford product any time soon...Hope that no further glitches show up in this car and will be looking for a hybrid from another manufacturer in 2 years.

I hear that the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid is coming in 2012... and I will be taking a serious look at it...

 

FORD CANADA.... I am so dissapointed in you.

 

I haven't had repair issues, but I did have issues with my initial purchase of my Fusion. I wrote to several vice presidents of various departments all of whom claimed the situation was not within their purview and/or passed the buck to someone else, all with no results for me. It was only when I wrote directly to Alan Mulally, president & CEO of Ford, that I got what I wanted. Here's the address I used: Mr. Alan Mulally, President

Ford Motor Company

P.O. Box 685

Dearborn, MI 48126-685

 

Detail, in your letter, every step of the process you have gone through to date. Also explain that you simply want what you paid for and that a satisfactory resolution to your problem, in addition to simply being the right thing for Ford to do, would also be in Ford's best interest from a public relations standpoint. I explained in my letter that I had driven Hondas for 35 years but was so impressed with the Fusion that I decided to make the switch. I also pointed out that, in those 35 years, I never once got the run-around from Honda, and that I would have no qualms about buying yet another Accord. As I said, that letter did the trick. Granted my situation is not exactly like yours since you already have the Fusion, but play that public relations card for all it's worth. And always send your letters to the top guy. The written word is still a powerful tool.

 

Good luck.

 

P.S.: That address is also the one for Ford's Board of Directors.

[rayo250]

I haven't had repair issues, but I did have issues with my initial purchase of my Fusion. I wrote to several vice presidents of various departments all of whom claimed the situation was not within their purview and/or passed the buck to someone else, all with no results for me. It was only when I wrote directly to Alan Mulally, president & CEO of Ford, that I got what I wanted. Here's the address I used: Mr. Alan Mulally, President

Ford Motor Company

P.O. Box 685

Dearborn, MI 48126-685

 

Detail, in your letter, every step of the process you have gone through to date. Also explain that you simply want what you paid for and that a satisfactory resolution to your problem, in addition to simply being the right thing for Ford to do, would also be in Ford's best interest from a public relations standpoint. I explained in my letter that I had driven Hondas for 35 years but was so impressed with the Fusion that I decided to make the switch. I also pointed out that, in those 35 years, I never once got the run-around from Honda, and that I would have no qualms about buying yet another Accord. As I said, that letter did the trick. Granted my situation is not exactly like yours since you already have the Fusion, but play that public relations card for all it's worth. And always send your letters to the top guy. The written word is still a powerful tool.

 

Good luck.

 

P.S.: That address is also the one for Ford's Board of Directors.

 

Thanks for your response.... what I am really looking for right now is the CEO of Ford Canada's address, email or even a phone number... Like you, I am stonewalled by everyone I speak to and have been hunting for the Canadian address/ phone number.... And you can rest assured that I will be speaking / writing to the CEO of Ford CANADA soon....

[hondaconvert]

Thanks for your response.... what I am really looking for right now is the CEO of Ford Canada's address, email or even a phone number... Like you, I am stonewalled by everyone I speak to and have been hunting for the Canadian address/ phone number.... And you can rest assured that I will be speaking / writing to the CEO of Ford CANADA soon....

 

 

Good for you. I'll see if I can get an address for you.

[hondaconvert]

Thanks for your response.... what I am really looking for right now is the CEO of Ford Canada's address, email or even a phone number... Like you, I am stonewalled by everyone I speak to and have been hunting for the Canadian address/ phone number.... And you can rest assured that I will be speaking / writing to the CEO of Ford CANADA soon....

 

 

Here's what I found for you:

 

Officers:

President and CEO: David Mondragon

VP Finance: Gary Hawthorne

VP Public Affairs: Lauren More

 

 

Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited

 

The Canadian Rd.

 

Oakville, Ontario L6J 5E4, Canada

 

(Customer service is the same address as above but with P.O. Box 2000 as the third line. I would go right to Mondragon, though.)

 

 

Tel. 905-845-2511

 

Toll Free 800-565-3673

 

Fax 905-844-8085

 

Good luck, again.

Edited October 30, 2010 by hondaconvert

[rayo250]

Here's what I found for you:

 

Officers:

President and CEO: David Mondragon

VP Finance: Gary Hawthorne

VP Public Affairs: Lauren More

 

 

Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited

 

The Canadian Rd.

 

Oakville, Ontario L6J 5E4, Canada

 

(Customer service is the same address as above but with P.O. Box 2000 as the third line. I would go right to Mondragon, though.)

 

 

Tel. 905-845-2511

 

Toll Free 800-565-3673

 

Fax 905-844-8085

 

Good luck, again.

 

Thanks so much for that..... !! I did have the Telephone number but there are about 200 different extentions, but the Presidents is not on this list .... I had sent an email to the Loren More, but was redirected to a Larry Nurse (another VP) who "can take care of all this right away"..... and I have been stonewalled ever since.. 5 months worth.

Today I was at my Ford dealership speaking to the Service Manager, Electronics Service Manager and the Tech involved.... They have done every test and basically have swapped all parts, harness and cables with a brand new Hybrid to no avail... The new parts do not work in my car but my car's parts work in the new one... Hense, we are all now thinking some type of programming in the individualized E PROM that comes with each car.. As the Service manager said... If the main programming moves from one component to another... nothing will change or fix the problem....They have summited a request for a replacement E PROM but one that has been rewritten, not just a copy of the exisiting one as they will just get another one like the one that is in the car...When and if this will be done is unknown at this point...

The service manager has asked for a couple of weeks for a followup on this from the engineering department... If nothing comes of this.... Letters off to the CEO of Ford.

 

Thanks again for the info..... :)

 

Ray