Hybrid = Lower Scheduled Maintenance Costs?

[JimFFH]

I was kind of surprised when I walked through the maintenance book, seemed less regular maintenance than a regular gas vehicle. Couple things that stood out, I read online that the brakes will last 3x as long as a regular gas vehicle brakes, as a lot of the braking is done by the hybrid transmission. Oil change intervals are extended, I'm guessing due to the Electric only mode use. I'm guessing the engine air filter could also go longer for the same reason. Those are some of the more frequent maintenance items. I know my chrysler minivan transmission I changed filter and oil every 35K, but didn't recall seeing frequent transmission service in the manual.

 

The dealer tried to sell me on a maintenance package, but I'm sure glad I didn't take him up on it, as it appears less is required with this vehicle.

 

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M INACCURATE ON ANY OF THIS, or ADD MORE DETAILS.

 

(Note: I don't consider battery replacement/hybrid component replacement regular scheduled maintenance, but that is potentially a cost if you keep the vehicle long term.)

[dogo88]

I was kind of surprised when I walked through the maintenance book, seemed less regular maintenance than a regular gas vehicle. Couple things that stood out, I read online that the brakes will last 3x as long as a regular gas vehicle brakes, as a lot of the braking is done by the hybrid transmission. Oil change intervals are extended, I'm guessing due to the Electric only mode use. I'm guessing the engine air filter could also go longer for the same reason. Those are some of the more frequent maintenance items. I know my chrysler minivan transmission I changed filter and oil every 35K, but didn't recall seeing frequent transmission service in the manual.

 

The dealer tried to sell me on a maintenance package, but I'm sure glad I didn't take him up on it, as it appears less is required with this vehicle.

 

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M INACCURATE ON ANY OF THIS, or ADD MORE DETAILS.

 

(Note: I don't consider battery replacement/hybrid component replacement regular scheduled maintenance, but that is potentially a cost if you keep the vehicle long term.)

 

Jim,

I believe you are correct in all areas. I think I read air filter for the engine is for the life of the vehicle.Battery shouldn't be much of an issue either since it's warrantied for 8 or 10 years (Cal is 10). By that time batteries should be way much less than today. The only things that stand our are the usual tires and exhaust. Though my 95 ford explorer was over 10 years old and still had the original exhaust system. My Chrysler cars seemed to go through exhausts much faster.

 

Dan

[mort]

Hi Jim,

Yes, hybrid scheduled maintenance is reduced compared to a conventional gas engine car. But all modern cars require less maintenance than earlier cars.

There is no air filter element; the air cleaner is self cleaning and is expected to last the life of the car. The oil & filter change interval is increased to 10,000 mi since as you said there will be some EV mode and almost no engine idling. Also the engine operation is under computer control and that helps extend oil life. The transmission has no bands or clutches and no torque converter. The transmission fluid is special, it is really just a good gear lubricant. It isn't used to transfer power by resisting shear forces in a torque converter so it doen't get hot in the same way (and that heat breaks down ATF in a more conventional automatic). It is used to help transfer heat from the traction motor to the inverter cooling system. The experience with the Toyota Prius with a similar transmission is that the transmission fluid may need changing at about 130,000 mi due to the viscosity extenders wearing. The Ford transmission fluid is somewhat different, and I don't think anybody has published replacement recomendations, the owners manual says: "Your transmission does not consume fluid. It is designed to be filled for life."

Also the fuel filter is in the tank and will only need replacing when the in-tank fuel pump wears out.

There is a seperate cooling system for the inverter, and that coolant will need changing as well as the coolant in the cooling system for the engine.

The brake fluid is conventional and should be checked and changed like any other car, however Ford doen't recommend brake fluid replacement on a schedule except for special purpose vehicles.

As to traction battery replacement. I expect people to keep crashing and a supply of used batteries will keep the replacement cost down if out of warranty. On ebay there is a crash battery for $700 now. Likewise for other electical parts, although the transmission with its big motors is going to pretty expensive when it goes.

 

-mort

[JimFFH]

Hi Jim,

Yes, hybrid scheduled maintenance is reduced compared to a conventional gas engine car. But all modern cars require less maintenance than earlier cars.

There is no air filter element; the air cleaner is self cleaning and is expected to last the life of the car. The oil & filter change interval is increased to 10,000 mi since as you said there will be some EV mode and almost no engine idling. Also the engine operation is under computer control and that helps extend oil life. The transmission has no bands or clutches and no torque converter. The transmission fluid is special, it is really just a good gear lubricant. It isn't used to transfer power by resisting shear forces in a torque converter so it doen't get hot in the same way (and that heat breaks down ATF in a more conventional automatic). It is used to help transfer heat from the traction motor to the inverter cooling system. The experience with the Toyota Prius with a similar transmission is that the transmission fluid may need changing at about 130,000 mi due to the viscosity extenders wearing. The Ford transmission fluid is somewhat different, and I don't think anybody has published replacement recomendations, the owners manual says: "Your transmission does not consume fluid. It is designed to be filled for life."

Also the fuel filter is in the tank and will only need replacing when the in-tank fuel pump wears out.

There is a seperate cooling system for the inverter, and that coolant will need changing as well as the coolant in the cooling system for the engine.

The brake fluid is conventional and should be checked and changed like any other car, however Ford doen't recommend brake fluid replacement on a schedule except for special purpose vehicles.

As to traction battery replacement. I expect people to keep crashing and a supply of used batteries will keep the replacement cost down if out of warranty. On ebay there is a crash battery for $700 now. Likewise for other electical parts, although the transmission with its big motors is going to pretty expensive when it goes.

 

-mort

 

Great insight, thanks for the confirmation! The dealer pitched a line like 90% of the people opt for the dealer maintenance package, but I held my ground, said I'm not like everyone else. : )

[rfruth]

No alternator & no starter motor helps ...

[JimFFH]

No alternator & no starter motor helps ...

 

Amen to 'no alternator.' They always seem to let go eventually.

[Buster1]

No alternator & no starter motor helps ...

 

Wait...what? My Hybrid has no alternator or starter? Please explain.

[lolder]

Wait...what? My Hybrid has no alternator or starter? Please explain.

You should Google eCVT and Hybrids to see how the Toyota and Ford systems work. They are very similar in theory differing only in layout. There are two high voltage 3 phase permanent magnet synchronous motor/generators generically called MG1 and MG2. MG2 is the large drive motor directly geared to the wheels that also provides regenerative braking. MG2 is the eCVT control device that acts as a motor or generator turning in either direction and also is the engine starter. I think it is about 30 hp. A solid state electronic device called a DC to DC converter charges the 12 volt system from the high voltage system. There is no torque converter, clutch or transmission control bands-nothing mechanical to wear except bearings and gears that typically have very long lives. See: http://www.eahart.com/prius/psd/ and: http://privatenrg.com/. The FFH is 20 % heavier than the Prius and more powerful and gets 10 mpg less fuel efficiency and the physical layout of the eCVT is different.

[JimFFH]

I know someone with a new Prius. They said in Econo mode it drives like a 'golf cart' and to accelerate faster they need to switch to Power Mode. I'm glad the FFH switches automatically with application of the gas pedal. I'd guess with the added wait, the Fusion is also the safer vehicle.

[lolder]

I know someone with a new Prius. They said in Econo mode it drives like a 'golf cart' and to accelerate faster they need to switch to Power Mode. I'm glad the FFH switches automatically with application of the gas pedal. I'd guess with the added wait, the Fusion is also the safer vehicle.

The only thing the different modes do in the Prius is change the accelerator pedal response curve. Full pedal application in any mode gives the same maximum performance. They don't have the type of display like the FFH has in "Empower" display mode to show allowable EV power range.

[Zoom]

Hi all,

I've been lurking on this great forum for a while now.

I currently own a 2006 Prius and recently took a test drive in a new FFH.

Needless to say, I was very impressed.

So comparing the FFH to the new generation Prius, I'm thinking of giving up a few miles and going with a much more refined and substantial car.

 

On to my main question...

Does the FFH, like the Prius, have no belts to worry about, coming off the ICE?

Thanks

[lolder]

Hi all,

I've been lurking on this great forum for a while now.

I currently own a 2006 Prius and recently took a test drive in a new FFH.

Needless to say, I was very impressed.

So comparing the FFH to the new generation Prius, I'm thinking of giving up a few miles and going with a much more refined and substantial car.

 

On to my main question...

Does the FFH, like the Prius, have no belts to worry about, coming off the ICE?

Thanks

It has a belt that drives the ICE coolant water pump. Some years ago, Ford revolutionized the belt drive systems and apparently still feels the belt is superior for that application. You'll give up about 10 mpg. It weighs 700 lbs. more. New Prius owners still rave about them. Personally I like the style of your 2006 better but that's just individual taste. I bought the FFH during CFC with a 501 package that gave me BLIS and CTA and backup camera and SYNC. The cost of the camera option on the Prius and lack of BLIS, CTA and SYNC and the $1700 tax credit were big factors. The FFH got rave reviews. If the FFH was not available, I would have bought a Prius and been tickled with it. If you want to hypermile, you can do more with a Prius. We FFH owners are HOPING for reliability approaching a Prius.

[Zoom]

It has a belt that drives the ICE coolant water pump. Some years ago, Ford revolutionized the belt drive systems and apparently still feels the belt is superior for that application. You'll give up about 10 mpg. It weighs 700 lbs. more. New Prius owners still rave about them. Personally I like the style of your 2006 better but that's just individual taste. I bought the FFH during CFC with a 501 package that gave me BLIS and CTA and backup camera and SYNC. The cost of the camera option on the Prius and lack of BLIS, CTA and SYNC and the $1700 tax credit were big factors. The FFH got rave reviews. If the FFH was not available, I would have bought a Prius and been tickled with it. If you want to hypermile, you can do more with a Prius. We FFH owners are HOPING for reliability approaching a Prius.

Thanks lolder,

Yeah, I took a few rides in the gen3 Prius, and I really liked it.

Gotta say, I've been real happy with my '06 Prius (no probs or issues in 32,000 miles).

One of my favorite features in my Prius is the SmartKey system.

I am spoiled with that idea of NEVER fiddling with keys while interacting with my car.

I was very disappointed to find that the Technologically Wizz-Bang FFH was lacking this feature!

However the FFH seems like such a great car, that I think I'll (try to) forget about this, and actually use keys again.

Also...

You bring up the reliability issue, and I have to say, I never thought I'd be considering a Ford.

All that I've been reading and hearing about the FFH has been very positive.

So I'm thinking of taking a chance this time with a Ford.

However, if I get burned on the reliability with the car, I'll never buy another.

Also, I gotta say, I really wish it was made in the USA!

[Oman]

I do get tired of the "made in the USA" argument as it relates to cars. The argument is abused on both sides. Final assembly really has little to do with the big picture. There are thousands of people employed by car companies. Only a small percentage of those are involved in the final assembly of the car. For me the questions are : Where are most of the employees employed? Where are the high paying jobs located? What is country of origin mix for the parts of the car? Where do the company profits go? What country gets the corporate taxes? Who owns the company?

 

I do wish that Ford assembled this car in the USA. I do understand why they don't. Toyota assembling a car in the USA doesn't make it an American car or company.

 

I don't choose a car based solely on the where the company is located but if all things are equal I will lean towards supporting American companies.

 

Now if we can just get Google, Microsoft, etc. to not shuffle all their income through Ireland to avoid paying their fair share US taxes...

 

 

 

Jon

 

 

 

Thanks lolder,

Yeah, I took a few rides in the gen3 Prius, and I really liked it.

Gotta say, I've been real happy with my '06 Prius (no probs or issues in 32,000 miles).

One of my favorite features in my Prius is the SmartKey system.

I am spoiled with that idea of NEVER fiddling with keys while interacting with my car.

I was very disappointed to find that the Technologically Wizz-Bang FFH was lacking this feature!

However the FFH seems like such a great car, that I think I'll (try to) forget about this, and actually use keys again.

Also...

You bring up the reliability issue, and I have to say, I never thought I'd be considering a Ford.

All that I've been reading and hearing about the FFH has been very positive.

So I'm thinking of taking a chance this time with a Ford.

However, if I get burned on the reliability with the car, I'll never buy another.

Also, I gotta say, I really wish it was made in the USA!