Hybrid Engine Issue - Not Good

[kirkster57]

I posted earlier about this oil burning/check engine light issue on my 2010 Hybrid. A couple of you wrote to have the oil level checked. Well.. I took the car back to the dealer and they checked the levels. Everything was good. I have to leave the car for a few days next week so they can firgure this out. Ford is giving me another car to drive. The service guys said" I don't have a clue as to what can be causing this, but it's not good." i told him a few others other there have reported the same issue. He said, "Ford hasn't issued any TSB's on it so...we will have to see, this is a new one".

I don't want to get ahead of myself but the last thing I want is for them to tear apart a virtually brand new engine or even replace it. What remedies do i have a a consumer? If this tures out to be a really bad issue does Ford have to buy the car back? I really have a bad feeling about this.

[akirby]

I posted earlier about this oil burning/check engine light issue on my 2010 Hybrid. A couple of you wrote to have the oil level checked. Well.. I took the car back to the dealer and they checked the levels. Everything was good. I have to leave the car for a few days next week so they can firgure this out. Ford is giving me another car to drive. The service guys said" I don't have a clue as to what can be causing this, but it's not good." i told him a few others other there have reported the same issue. He said, "Ford hasn't issued any TSB's on it so...we will have to see, this is a new one".

I don't want to get ahead of myself but the last thing I want is for them to tear apart a virtually brand new engine or even replace it. What remedies do i have a a consumer? If this tures out to be a really bad issue does Ford have to buy the car back? I really have a bad feeling about this.

 

You have to allow them to fix the car even if it means replacing the engine - within certain parameters (such as time out of service). I wouldn't worry about it yet.

[Grey]

They will try to duplicate the condition. Could be moisture in the exhause system, deposits on the converter or oil blow-by. You didn't say how many miles are on the vehicle and how it was maintained (Factory fill oil still in the vehicle, changed to full synthetic, weight of oil used last oil change, etc.) so we would be guessing along with your service advisor (who was pretty silly to say it's not good!)

 

Sometimes it's hard to fully describe concerns - Was it black, blue or white smoke? How hot was the engine when it happened? Did the engine light leave codes? What was the driving mode before the condition?

 

I suspect it will turn out to be a one time minor situation or an insignificant event like moisture in the exhaust.

[kirkster57]

Thick Blue cloud. Car has 20k miles and the oil has been changed by the dealer at regular intervals as specified by Ford. it's not water vapor. Not a freak occurance either. It happened twice upon hard acceleration. A bascially new car should not have blue smoke pouring out of the exhaust and have a blinking check enginge light when you press on the gas pedal. Car goes to the dealer on Monday.

 

They will try to duplicate the condition. Could be moisture in the exhause system, deposits on the converter or oil blow-by. You didn't say how many miles are on the vehicle and how it was maintained (Factory fill oil still in the vehicle, changed to full synthetic, weight of oil used last oil change, etc.) so we would be guessing along with your service advisor (who was pretty silly to say it's not good!)

 

Sometimes it's hard to fully describe concerns - Was it black, blue or white smoke? How hot was the engine when it happened? Did the engine light leave codes? What was the driving mode before the condition?

 

I suspect it will turn out to be a one time minor situation or an insignificant event like moisture in the exhaust.

[VonoreTn]

Thick Blue cloud. Car has 20k miles and the oil has been changed by the dealer at regular intervals as specified by Ford. it's not water vapor. Not a freak occurance either. It happened twice upon hard acceleration. A bascially new car should not have blue smoke pouring out of the exhaust and have a blinking check enginge light when you press on the gas pedal. Car goes to the dealer on Monday.

I have 21K miles on my 2010 FFH, no issues whatsoever. My mileage has been real close to 40 mpg since it was new. Keep us posted on what the dealer finds.

[Grey]

Sure sounds like blow-by then. Perhaps the rings did not seat well and the cylinder walls are glazed. Or, it was overfilled and they didn't want to admit it.

[kirkster57]

[

I thought the overfill thing for sure. I was right there when they checked it. It's not overfilled. I checked it again when I got home after letting the car sit. This dealership is top notch, customer service is really a big deal to them. I'm sure they will get it taken care of. What concerns me about this is that I have read about this same problem with Fusion Hybrids elsewhere on the net. Could be a bigger issue overall.

Well.. what's the fix for the blow-by problem, a new engine? Could the cat converter and other emission parts be affected by this?

quote name=Grey' date='15 September 2010 - 07:38 AM' timestamp='1284554324' post='31313]

Sure sounds like blow-by then. Perhaps the rings did not seat well and the cylinder walls are glazed. Or, it was overfilled and they didn't want to admit it.

Edited September 15, 2010 by kirkster57

[resq1diver]

Well, I'm at 16k with no problems (knock on wood) and its not like I'm on the web searching for issues. I'm sure you'll get it fixed. GL

 

Edit to add:

 

I did find this and nothing else...

 

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f81/blue-smoke-cloud-out-back-my-ffh-24728/

Edited September 15, 2010 by resq1diver

[kirkster57]

Somethings up...dealer isn't returning my calls or e-mail.

[kirkster57]

Disregard that. I just got an e-mail from them. Car goes back on Monday. I'll let everyone know what they say.

[mirak]

I hope everything works out for you. I know how you feel. When you buy a new car, the idea is that mechanics won't be tearing into the guts of the car to perform major repairs less than a year out, warranty or not. On the other hand, if I was offered a brand new replacement engine (fat chance), I'd probably take it.

 

I would suggest you look up your state's "lemon laws," but regardless of where you live, you're probably going to have to give Ford at least one chance, maybe more, to fix the problem.

 

Good luck. I hope it ends up being an easy fix!

[lolder]

I don't think this is going to be a major issue with the basic operation of the engine in the FFH. Blow by and unseated rings are very rare today. A transient pulse of oil vapor or something is getting into the intake to cause the smoke and panel light. High oil levels and accelerations are the most likely cause. There are a lot of actuators in the engine system that operate during ICE starts and stops and there may be some problem with one of these. I hope I'm right and I am normally a pessimist. Go to YouTube and watch an old radial engine start. Not a good comparison, I know.

Edited September 16, 2010 by lolder

[tonifan]

My first experience with the Check Engine Light was with The Ford Store of San Leandro (California). They re-set the light (or system, or whatever), and for about a month and a half, all was OK. Then, the light came back on; they re-set it, and I've had it now for a year and the light has not come back on. So, yours may have to be re-set a couple of times before everything levels off. Good luck.

[kirkster57]

No word yet. Car has been in the shop since 7AM. Stay tuned fro updates.

[kirkster57]

Here is what the dealer told me. The error code they got when the check engine light came on indicated a misfire problem realted to the ignition coil. They have ordered that part, will replace it and retest to see if that fixes the problem. I'm not quite sure how that relates to the blue smoke upon hard acceleration, but then again I'm not a mechanic. Stay tuned

[Grey]

Since you had a misfire situation, the smoke may have been unburned fuel and moisture in the exhaust system. The unburned fuel could flash in the catalyst and burn off any deposits that build up over time. That could produce the smoke and trigger the exhaust gas oxygen sensor to throw a code. I expect the new coil will correct the problem.

[akirby]

Since you had a misfire situation, the smoke may have been unburned fuel and moisture in the exhaust system. The unburned fuel could flash in the catalyst and burn off any deposits that build up over time. That could produce the smoke and trigger the exhaust gas oxygen sensor to throw a code. I expect the new coil will correct the problem.

 

Exactly. Sounds like you had unburned fuel that was suddenly ignited due to the misfire.

[jeff_h]

Exactly. Sounds like you had unburned fuel that was suddenly ignited due to the misfire.

 

This is the same thing that happened to me once when I really stomped on the gas, big puff of smoke made me think I'd blown the engine... it is mentioned in the owners manual (get the PDF and do a search on misfire) so I wonder if this type of engine is more susceptible to this sort of thing, I have no idea. But anyway, for me that was 20,000 miles ago and no problems since, I just don't mash on the gas like I'm 16 years old again.

[kirkster57]

Good theory except that the smoke was blue and very thick. Another theory to ponder is could the misfire been caused by oil getting into the cylinder and causing the spark plug to misfire? This would explain both the blue smoke and the engine code.

 

 

Exactly. Sounds like you had unburned fuel that was suddenly ignited due to the misfire.

[kirkster57]

Don't know what color smoke cmoes from unburned fule, but mine was blue and very thick. I think the service guys are responding to the "quick" remedy and not the real cause. I think I may be back a couple of times on this one.

 

This is the same thing that happened to me once when I really stomped on the gas, big puff of smoke made me think I'd blown the engine... it is mentioned in the owners manual (get the PDF and do a search on misfire) so I wonder if this type of engine is more susceptible to this sort of thing, I have no idea. But anyway, for me that was 20,000 miles ago and no problems since, I just don't mash on the gas like I'm 16 years old again.

[akirby]

Good theory except that the smoke was blue and very thick. Another theory to ponder is could the misfire been caused by oil getting into the cylinder and causing the spark plug to misfire? This would explain both the blue smoke and the engine code.

 

Yes, that's possible. Did the misfire occur before or after the smoke?

[ralteredstates]

Here is what the dealer told me. The error code they got when the check engine light came on indicated a misfire problem realted to the ignition coil. They have ordered that part, will replace it and retest to see if that fixes the problem. I'm not quite sure how that relates to the blue smoke upon hard acceleration, but then again I'm not a mechanic. Stay tuned

 

I had to accelerate "pedal to the metal" style the other day while getting on the highway in front of a tractor-trailer. I produced a large blue cloud of smoke (from the back of the car of course) which was a little disconcerting. No error lights on the dash. I'm not going to worry about it now. Could be the atkinson cycle engine??

Edited September 21, 2010 by ralteredstates

[akirby]

I had to accelerate "pedal to the metal" style the other day while getting on the highway in front of a tractor-trailer. I produced a large blue cloud of smoke (from the back of the car of course) which was a little disconcerting. No error lights on the dash. I'm not going to worry about it now. Could be the atkins cycle engine??

 

It's Atkinson cycle and yes, that's a good possibility.

[kirkster57]

Well, they are suppsed the install the ignition coil today and then test the vehical to see if that did the trick. My loaner car is a 2009 Fusion with no options. I miss my hybrid. Stay Tuned.

[lolder]

I believe misfires are detected by low crankshaft accelerations of individual cylinders. That will even detect badly leaking valves or rings or bad injectors. I'm not sure if they detect a missing spark, they may. A defective coil on a cylinder would likely produce a lot of misfires. My oil level has never been above 3/4 of the measuring interval and that's where the Ford dealer put it at the 10,000 mile oil change. The difference in oil level between right after an ICE run until 15 minutes later is almost 1/3 of the interval. I don't know what that is in quarts but the difference between high-low marks is typically a quart. This vehicle may be above average in susceptibility to crankshaft impact of high oil levels. A slug of oil vapor in a cylinder in itself may be sufficient to cause a misfire detection. I drive with a feather light foot seldom exceeding two divisions of the power gauge. I am unable to produce any smoke after EV mode and/or long low power usage by a full throttle application. There is enormous effort in the design to ensure that residual fuel does not collect anywhere during operation for emissions reasons. The throttle in an Atkinson cycle hybrid is typically open much farther than an Otto cycle conventional ICE. The rpm is just kept lower by the eCVT. Atkinson's are run at a high percentage of the available torque at any rpm. When you floor it, the throttle opens the rest of the way and the computer increases the rpm to produce the desired power. What really changes is the g-loading due to car acceleration and/or turning which may cause disturbance in the oil level and cause crankshaft impact. It is possible there's a valve or solenoid that's a problem but most of that stuff is monitored all the time. For the time being, don't worry about it too much and watch the oil levels.

Edited September 21, 2010 by lolder