Trade in my FFH?

[jd_olson]

Hello,

 

I wanted to start off by saying thanks for everyone's postings, they are fun and informative to read about other's experience with the FFH. I have always been an early adopter of Fusions, bought a V6 back in 2006 and my FFH last March to get the tax credit as well as drive a great looking car.

 

I have come to a cross road with FFH and wanted to gather some feedback from others on whether you think it is worth it to continue driving a FFH or switch to a 4 cylinder Fusion instead? or do I go back to driving V-6 Fusions? (probably not but tempting)

 

I currently drive 90% highway at about 25 miles each way which combined with my short city commute I average about 38 MPG. Reading about other 4-cylinder Fusions it could be expected to get about 32 combined driving. So i stand to lose 80-90 miles per tank.

 

Using rough figures on what I pay now for my FFH and could be paying for a 4-cylinder.

FFH Monthly car payment - $475

Fusion 4-cylinder similar features to what I got in FFH - $350 (Assuming i carryover any equity from my FFH into the new car)

 

Final question - what would you value a FFH with 16,000 miles on it? KBB says 22,900 private value.

 

Thanks again all! I will not be offended if you call me crazy.

[lolder]

In general, trading a car after one year gives you the biggest hit on depreciation and you haven't realized the three year hybrid payback. Monthly payments are only part of the picture.

[xmech2k]

FYI, I have a 2010 SE I4 auto, and I drive a similar commute, only it's 20 miles each way. My friends and coworkers say I drive slower than a grandma so I'm no leadfoot, and on a good tank, I'll avg a little over 30mpg. It goes up to 31.x on the highway early on, rarely 32.x, but the trips to the store, school, etc., drag it down usually to 28.x. The socal terrain is a bit hilly, maybe that makes a dent, but I would take some peoples mpg claims with a grain of salt. On a long flat stretch from Phoenix to Gila bend, I just reached an average 39.9 mpg (No kidding!) before stopping for a pit stop. That was flat terrain, 65 mph on cruise control. Immediately started dropping when I hit the 75 mph highway south of Gila Bend. But that was an extraordinary case.

 

Sounds like you decided the hybrid is not financially worth it, which is why I haven't been a big fan of hybrids. If you want to help save the planet, and are willing to pay a little extra over the long run, fine. But people shouldn't get hybrids thinking it will save them money. You'll save some at the pump, but pay a bit more to the bank.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[rfruth]

Any one seen or tested the Lincoln hybrid, is it just a FFH with thicker carpeting or is it "new" ?

[lolder]

The same.

[akirby]

Any one seen or tested the Lincoln hybrid, is it just a FFH with thicker carpeting or is it "new" ?

 

It's the MKZ - which they've been making since 2005 - with the FFH drivetrain. It's not a FFH clone.

[funny]

<initial portion of message deleted>

 

Sounds like you decided the hybrid is not financially worth it, which is why I haven't been a big fan of hybrids. If you want to help save the planet, and are willing to pay a little extra over the long run, fine. But people shouldn't get hybrids thinking it will save them money. You'll save some at the pump, but pay a bit more to the bank.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

I would agree with your statement that from a purely financial standpoint, many drivers would be better off with a non-hybrid 4-cylinder, e.g. those with a very short commute or primarily highway driving pattern. However some can truly benefit from the hybrid. After factoring the $850 tax credit and the fact that sales tax in DC is waived for 40+ city mpg, the overall initial cost of the FFH was only two or three thousand $$ premium over a similarly equipped 4-cylinder Fusion with X-plan pricing. I drive quite a bit for work (> 15K miles annually, mix of city/hwy) and my overall mpg has tended to hover around the "city" EPA rating when driving non-hybrid cars. So I figure I would be getting only 23 with a 4-cyl Fusion vs. the 36 mpg which I am realizing with the FFH. At current gas prices, this represents a break-even point (for me) of 3-4 years, and I plan to keep the car at least twice that long.

[jazztrumpet216]

If you can find a Fusion S, you might be slightly better off. It is not uncommon for me to hit anywhere between 36 and 40 MPG on the highway, depending on terrain and A/C usage. I don't drive terribly fast on the highway though- about 70 MPH which in these parts is pretty middle of the road. You get passed but you do some passing as well.

 

However, that number drops like a rock once I'm off the highway. I just did this yesterday- I achieved about 38 MPG on the 100 mile drive from my home in Madison to my parents' home in Milwaukee (I am teaching a summer school program in Milwaukee). Now that I am here and have put about 60 miles of suburban driving on the Fusion, that number dropped to 32.

[DaveM]

I suggest before you do anything this time spend the time and reseach your next purchase which looks like you didn't do this time around. I have to wonder if it wouldn't be better to just keep the hybrid as the money you lose on it plus getting another car more than likely will end up in the long run costing you more money than it would to keep what you got and just enjoy it.

[Fuze-ion]

I would also say you will better off, by keeping you current car, as long as you are happy with it. This is assumption: your Fusion Hybrid value will be worth more, in a couple years than the non hybrid. You are still saving gas money currently, which could be put away for savings. Your insurance and taxes will be dropping as the car is now a year older.

[jay2000]

Hi,

 

It sounds like environmental concerns, and using less foreign oil are not really part of your decision.

 

So...if money is the issue. In general, you are always going to come out ahead KEEPING a 1-2 year old car. You just are not going to get that much for a trade in. $22,900 from a private buyer sounds pretty good, if you can then buy a Fusion for just a little more. I would wait until I have that money in my hand before I bought the new car.

 

 

Won't you have to pay sales tax? If you were planning to keep it for years, you may see $4 gas and up.

[jd_olson]

I think it is more beneficial to hold onto my FFH from a long term financial aspect. The gas mileage while a small piece still does matter especially during city driving. I drove a lot in the city over the weekend and it was a reassuring feeling to get 45+ MPG going to the grocery store and back where as a 4-cylinder would be significantly less.

 

lolder - i was curious what other aspects would be a part of your picture when you mentioned "Monthly payments are only part of the picture"?

 

Thanks all for the input.

Edited July 7, 2010 by jd_olson

[akirby]

what other aspects would be a part of your picture when you mentioned "Monthly payments are only part of the picture"?

 

Depreciation, mostly. If you only have 2 years of payments left on the current vehicle vs. 5 years for a new vehicle then although the monthly payment might be the same you'll be paying for the new one for 3 additional years or 36 additional payments.

 

Look at the total cost, not the monthly payment.

[DonM]

We have a new FFH. I would rate its performance is peppy. The power out of the FFH w 2.5L I4 & the electric assist will be more than the straight I4 in the regular fusions, so one might have to compare the FFH against a V6 FF.

 

That would increase the advantage of the FFH.

 

Our daughter moved out to 42 mi from work recently & she was getting ~20 mph on her late model, pretty good, mid sized SUV. She traded for a new FFH which is getting 38-40 mpg on the same trip (includes access to car pool lanes with the FFH). Her usage is ~2000 mi/mo. With the SUV that was 100 gallons, it is 50 gallons with the FFH. That is a saving of around $150/mo @ todays prices, would be more if prices go up.

 

Our daughter in law got a Honda civic Hybrid 6 years ago. she also drives in a ways, has put 200k mi on it in 6 years. It also gets 40 mpg. she has saved 5000 gallons or ~$15,000 at todays prices.

 

DonM

[rpoffen]

We have a new FFH. I would rate its performance is peppy. The power out of the FFH w 2.5L I4 & the electric assist will be more than the straight I4 in the regular fusions, so one might have to compare the FFH against a V6 FF.

 

That would increase the advantage of the FFH.

 

Our daughter moved out to 42 mi from work recently & she was getting ~20 mph on her late model, pretty good, mid sized SUV. She traded for a new FFH which is getting 38-40 mpg on the same trip (includes access to car pool lanes with the FFH). Her usage is ~2000 mi/mo. With the SUV that was 100 gallons, it is 50 gallons with the FFH. That is a saving of around $150/mo @ todays prices, would be more if prices go up.

 

Our daughter in law got a Honda civic Hybrid 6 years ago. she also drives in a ways, has put 200k mi on it in 6 years. It also gets 40 mpg. she has saved 5000 gallons or ~$15,000 at todays prices.

 

DonM

 

You can't compare the fact that the engine in the FFH is 2.5l compares with the 2.5l in the SE. They are quite different engines. The FFH uses a modified Atkinson cycle engine. By modified, it is not truly the same as the original Atkinson cycle design because the original had a somewhat complex gearing arrangement to actually have a different stroke on the piston for the power stroke compared to the intake stroke. In the modified version the physical stroke length is the same for both power and intake cycle but the Atkinson "phenomena" is simulated by delaying the opening on the intake valve.

 

Because of this, an Atkinson cycle engine, while deriving more efficiency from the burning fuel/air mixture than a conventional "Otto" cycle engine, generates less power per given displacement than an Otto cycle engine. It is not clear if the electric motor fully compensates for this loss of power or not. Certainly under pure EV mode, the FFH isn't winning any drag races.