E85 vs. 87 - 89 - 91

[Discover]

Hello everyone,

 

 

I'm curious to see what most of you do for gas.

 

when i purchased my 2010 Tuxedo Black Fusion :happy feet: it had a full tank of 87, i do 90% freeway and 10% streets on the first tank of gas i got an average of 22mpg and about 350 miles to the tank (average speed is 70-75 mph). i have access to an E85 station so i figured i would give it a shot. gas prices in northern California are about $3.09 to $3.15 for 87 and $2.77/gallon for E85 i was excited that E85 was so much cheaper and i had done some research and was already aware of the 5%-15% drop in avg MPG.. However on a full tank of E85 i cant seem to get anything higher then 18.9mpg and 240 miles per tank.. so today i checked the owners manual and i was amazed to see that ford actually recommends 87 octane for the 3.0V6.. to me a minimum of 89 should be used.. as 87 would cause pings? AND the car responds so very well on 105 octane (E85)

 

So in all i am curious as to what all you 3.0 v6 owners use.

 

Also im curious if anyone has tried a full E85 tune? and if there are any benefits to being exclusively on E85? i.e. better mpg?

 

I love E85 and i really want to continue to use it, the car seems so happy. responsive. faster... but the lack of MPGs kinda sucks.

 

Thoughts? :)

[akirby]

E85 will typically drop your mpg by at least 20% - sometimes 25%. Having a tune that can take advantage of the higher octane (over 100) can get you more power but not better fuel economy - it's always going to be worse.

 

A normal Fusion in good running condition will NOT ping on 87 - it's designed that way on purpose. If you get pinging you have a problem that needs to be fixed. It is theoretically possible for the PCM (computer) to advance the timing to take advantage of 89 or 91 or 93 octane but there's been no evidence to suggest the Fusion is programmed that way. Those cars usually say "premium recommended".

 

If you want to be green or feel better about your fuel usage - use the E85 but it probably won't save much (if any) money on fuel due to the lower fuel economy.

 

Otherwise stick to 87. There's no benefit to higher octane and in some cases it can cause damage (which I believe it says in the owners manual).

[scottss80]

I would just stick to 87 octane. I disagree that E85 is green though. Since it's made from corn, which is a very water intensive, fertilizer intensive crop. It takes just as many BTUs to produce one unit of Ethanol has it gives out, using corn. So it's really a scam that's been put over the American public, after the debacle when we were forced to used MTBE in gasoline for all those years, which ruin some area's water supply. Like you have noticed your gas mileage goes down quiet a bit, like what akirby stated. So are you really saving money by using E85? Hey if you like it than run it, or 87 octane, with the knock sensor you shouldn't have any pinging running 87 octane. I think it's a waste of money to run anything higher than 87 octane. I don't know about a flex fuel car, but for others running higher octane can actually hurt your engine. Higher octane fuel is just harder to ignite, that's all the difference. Makes a lot of profit for the oil companies though, also Ethanol has kept The Corn Growers Association very happy, and at least you could say it's not made in China!

 

I suppose you could run enough 87 octane gas during the work week, and then put enough E85 in if you want to zip around on the weekend. At least you have that choice with a flex fuel car, that others of us don't have.

 

Take Care!

 

Scott

Edited May 15, 2010 by scottss80

[xmech2k]

Don't forget how ethanol drives the price of corn up so much, the poor countries of the world can't afford to buy it for their starving people.... Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now, but I heard it's true.

[hondaconvert]

Don't forget how ethanol drives the price of corn up so much, the poor countries of the world can't afford to buy it for their starving people.... Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now, but I heard it's true.

 

 

I agree with scottss80 and xmech2k. E85 does nothing for the environment. Corn is meant to be eaten, not burned. When you figure the 25% mpg reduction, you'd have to pay 25% per gallon less at the pump just to break even. My Fusion purrs on 87 octane, and I'm sticking with it. If you want to help the environment, ride a bicycle locally and shop locally.

[jazztrumpet216]

The corn that goes into ethanol production is feed corn, not meant for human consumption. If anything, you would be fighting a pig for his dinner rather than taking food off of the plates of someone in a third world country.

[jrseykid686]

The corn that goes into ethanol production is feed corn, not meant for human consumption. If anything, you would be fighting a pig for his dinner rather than taking food off of the plates of someone in a third world country.

 

True, but I think I'd rather fight a person than a pig over their dinner.... Just sayin....

[hondaconvert]

The corn that goes into ethanol production is feed corn, not meant for human consumption. If anything, you would be fighting a pig for his dinner rather than taking food off of the plates of someone in a third world country.

 

 

If there were no market for ethanol, and the government subsidies form the 1930's were discontinued, feed corn (and hence, meat) would be cheaper. Then the farmers might be encouraged to go back to producing corn for human consumption. It's all about profit in the end, but that profit can be realized in so many more benficial ways for the planet.

 

Bottom line though: My Fusion still purrs on regular 87 octane gas.

[enfuego]

The car is designed to run on 87 the 3 factors that would make you run anything higher are as follows the compression ratio. the fusion isnt anywhere near high enough. another would be timing ford didnt advance it that much no need to. the other would be forced induction doesnt come on a fusion. Also E85 will give you less mpg for this reason it may have a higher octane rating which is just its level of explosiveness the higher the number the less explosive it burns longer. However a molicule of ethanol produces less energy/force than a molicule of gas so to make the same power as gas it requires more ethanol. hope this helps to understand the differences between the fuels and why you should just save your money and use 87

[Oldguy16]

Let me ask anyone this. I'm considering filling up with Ethanol, just to see how it drives, is there a noticeable power gain? ford says 10hp, is that true? Forget the mpg, of course it's gonna be lower with higher octane

[Discover]

Let me ask anyone this. I'm considering filling up with Ethanol, just to see how it drives, is there a noticeable power gain? ford says 10hp, is that true? Forget the mpg, of course it's gonna be lower with higher octane

 

 

I've tested many tanks of both 87 octane and E85. And still in my opinion E85 offers more performance and my fusion runs so much better. On 87 the Car is sluggish. Doesn't have near as much throttle response and it gets out of its way much easier then on standard pump gas. I also fill up one day sooner on E85 vs 87 and as I stated above its only 2.77 a gallon here in California. Vs 315 for 87.

 

I notice more power on E85

Car idles better

And overall feeling of car is much much better.

 

The only downside is the 2 to 5 MPG loss which is controllable based on keeping your foot out of it.

 

I have a friend who owns a dyno shop if I can convince him to let me do some runs on 87 and 85 ill be sure to post them here.

 

One last side note E85 was never designed to replace pump gas. It was designed to give alternative fuel choices. It would be impossible for the states to run entirely on grain based fuel we hardly have enough open land left as it is. Some could also argue that all the factory work plus tractors plus fermenting process does more damage then it does good. I'd rather have that process then have to wear the weight of being responsible for the largest environmental disaster in history. Thank you BP.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Discover