nitronize

[vanhalenfanrob]

just wondering if anyone does this? and your thoughts...

 

pro: better gas mileage, stay inflated longer, and run cooler increasing tire life

 

con: cost, not available everywhere, can only fill with nitrogen, air is free and readily available

[bbf2530]

just wondering if anyone does this? and your thoughts...

 

pro: better gas mileage, stay inflated longer, and run cooler increasing tire life

 

con: cost, not available everywhere, can only fill with nitrogen, air is free and readily available

 

Hi vanhalenrob. :D Just a comment or two: With a nitrogen fill your tires will keep their proper inflation longer, due to the fact that nitrogen molecules are larger than compressed air molecules and therefore there is less ancillary leakage. Also, nitrogen is much less affected by temperature variations, so the tire pressure will stays constant whether it is hot or cold out.

 

However, in general nitrogen will not give better mileage. The proper psi is the proper psi whether it is compressed air or nitrogen. Where it "may give better mileage" is for people who do not properly check their tire pressures regularly, since the nitrogen filled tire will keep the proper pressure longer, all other variables being equal.

 

But for those of us who regularly check their tires and tire pressures, there will be no mileage benefit.

 

Bottom line, unless you have a shop that will give you free nitrogen refills, it can be more trouble than it is worth. Once you have nitrogen in the tires, using any compressed air at all will "contaminate" the nitrogen fill and erase the benefits. Again, if you are the type of individual that properly checks their tires, it is really not worth the trouble. My opinion of course.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[luebster]

As always, a thoughtful and thorough reply by bbf. Thanks for the info and nice job.

[robcy]

Here is a quote I got from the Firestone web site.

 

"Most people forget about their tires until something goes wrong. The truth is, tires lose pressure daily. In cool weather, a tire will typically lose one or two pounds of air per month. In warm weather, tires lose even more air. That's why it's recommended that you check air pressure every other time you stop to fill up your gas tank. Keep in mind that many vehicles have different tire pressures on the front and rear axle. And don't forget to check the pressure in your spare tire."

 

Mine came with a Nitro fill from the dealer, I have had the car for 8 months and 6.5k miles and the pressure is still equal to the day I purchased it. I was so impressed I changed all of my vehicles to Nitro. I should actually ask for a discount since I sound like a comercial. I can say that I have not noticed any milage increase.

[akirby]

Personally I use a Nitrogen/Oxygen blend (78%/21%). Works fine and I have my own storage and delivery system at home.

[Waldo]

pro: better gas mileage, stay inflated longer, and run cooler increasing tire life

 

False, REALLY false and false

 

They will not stay inflated longer, Nitrogen will leak out just as fast as air.

 

You will only get better gas mileage if you wouldn't otherwise have adjusted/checked the pressure, as mentioned above.

 

They will only run cooler if you wouldn't otherwise have adjusted/checked the pressure, as mentioned above.

 

In fact, if you inflate with Nitrogen to the pressure recommended on the door sticker, you will get worse fuel economy and run hotter than if you filled with air to that same cold pressure. Since air expands as the tire heats up, it will increase the pressure, so on the highway you will actually be running 2-3psi above the sticker pressure. Nitrogen will always stay the same, so for equal performance to air, you need to set it higher by a couple psi.

 

The biggest con to nitro fills is since it will leak eventually, you must top it up with nitrogen only. If you mix it with air, then your four tires will be gaining pressure at different rates. Once you have some air in one, a little more in another and none in the other two, you might set them all to 32psi cold, but once they are warm, they could be at 32, 32, 35 and 37.

[PJFW8]

Personally I use a Nitrogen/Oxygen blend (78%/21%). Works fine and I have my own storage and delivery system at home.

I like that blend so much that I breath it every night!

[akirby]

I like that blend so much that I breath it every night!

 

And once when I was being chased by bad guys I drove into a lake and breathed out of the tires until the bad guys went away. Try that with nitrogen! Oh wait.....maybe that was a movie........

[hfb]

If the nitrogen stays in the tire while the oxygen and other components of air excape , sooner or later the tire will be filled with virtually pure nitrogen. I have never found tires to need less recharging as the years go by. I suspect the only real value would be the nitrogen is dry where most compressed air as water vapor in it.

[bbf2530]

If the nitrogen stays in the tire while the oxygen and other components of air excape , sooner or later the tire will be filled with virtually pure nitrogen. I have never found tires to need less recharging as the years go by. I suspect the only real value would be the nitrogen is dry where most compressed air as water vapor in it.

 

 

Hi guys. :D Just a quick comment for hfb: I am assuming you were joking, but just so someone else does not get the wrong idea: For anyone wondering, the above "leakage theory" is scientifically (and real world) incorrect. The oxygen and other molecules will not leak out leaving a tire "filled with virtually pure nitrogen". Like I said, I do assume you were joking (like akirby and his "Nitrogen/Oxygen blend (78%/21%)"). Well, he was half joking anyway. :hysterical2:

 

There are those here who may think you were serious.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[Oman]

I keep hearing this. It is true that nitrogen fills limit temperature expansion differentials in extreme conditions, it is not true that they leak less or that they would make any difference in the average tire. The atmosphere contains 78.082% nitrogen (by volume, dry air). If you fill your tire with "air" you get getting 78% nitrogen. Oxygen is the next largest component of "air" coming in at 21% (by volume). Argon is a distant third. Nitrogen is monatomic while oxygen is not, which gets nitrogen closer to the ideal gas law but the difference is tiny under the pressures we use in tires. In other words pure nitrogen and nitrogen/oxygen/argon will expand more or less the same amount when heated. Nitrogen technically has "smaller" molecues so if it had anything to do with the molecules sneaking out through the rubber it would be worse with pure nitrogen.

 

Large aircraft, spacecraft, and Nascar like to use nitrogen for one (possibly two) reasons - elimination of moisture which in turn reduces thermal expansion. The nitrogen extraction process does an incredible job of removing any moisture. Compressed nitrogen also weighs slightly less than compressed "air" at the same volume and pressure but again I think that difference is only important when it takes a ton of fuel to launch a tiny bit of extra mass.

 

 

Jon

 

 

 

Hi vanhalenrob. :D Just a comment or two: With a nitrogen fill your tires will keep their proper inflation longer, due to the fact that nitrogen molecules are larger than compressed air molecules and therefore there is less ancillary leakage. Also, nitrogen is much less affected by temperature variations, so the tire pressure will stays constant whether it is hot or cold out.

 

However, in general nitrogen will not give better mileage. The proper psi is the proper psi whether it is compressed air or nitrogen. Where it "may give better mileage" is for people who do not properly check their tire pressures regularly, since the nitrogen filled tire will keep the proper pressure longer, all other variables being equal.

 

But for those of us who regularly check their tires and tire pressures, there will be no mileage benefit.

 

Bottom line, unless you have a shop that will give you free nitrogen refills, it can be more trouble than it is worth. Once you have nitrogen in the tires, using any compressed air at all will "contaminate" the nitrogen fill and erase the benefits. Again, if you are the type of individual that properly checks their tires, it is really not worth the trouble. My opinion of course.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[bbf2530]

I keep hearing this. It is true that nitrogen fills limit temperature expansion differentials in extreme conditions, it is not true that they leak less or that they would make any difference in the average tire. The atmosphere contains 78.082% nitrogen (by volume, dry air). If you fill your tire with "air" you get getting 78% nitrogen. Oxygen is the next largest component of "air" coming in at 21% (by volume). Argon is a distant third. Nitrogen is monatomic while oxygen is not, which gets nitrogen closer to the ideal gas law but the difference is tiny under the pressures we use in tires. In other words pure nitrogen and nitrogen/oxygen/argon will expand more or less the same amount when heated. Nitrogen technically has "smaller" molecues so if it had anything to do with the molecules sneaking out through the rubber it would be worse with pure nitrogen.

 

Large aircraft, spacecraft, and Nascar like to use nitrogen for one (possibly two) reasons - elimination of moisture which in turn reduces thermal expansion. The nitrogen extraction process does an incredible job of removing any moisture. Compressed nitrogen also weighs slightly less than compressed "air" at the same volume and pressure but again I think that difference is only important when it takes a ton of fuel to launch a tiny bit of extra mass.

 

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon. :D I am only replying here and now because you quoted one of my previous replies.

 

Just to make it perfectly clear, I have not advocated and am not advocating nitrogen fills. In fact, I have done the best I can to make my opinion clear without ramming it down the throat of the OP (vanhalenrob). I do not have nitrogen in my tires, and I will not have nitrogen in my tires. It is not worth the trouble, in my opinion.

 

Concerning the "leakage question": If anyone wishes to debate that point, you will need to argue with the major tire manufacturers websites, expert tire websites such as The Tire Rack, Discount Tire etc, automotive information magazines such as Motor Trend, Car and Driver etc etc. The information on those sites would disagree with your statement concerning leakage rates (in a properly maintained tire) and molecule size.

 

And just as an FYI: In addition to the reasons you already mentioned, the main reason that nitrogen is used in spacecraft like the escape shuttle (tires etc) and aircraft is due to the fact that nitrogen is non-combustible. In other words, it will not burn. The threat of fire is a major concern in space and aircraft.

 

But those questions are not the only concern (nor the main concern) in skipping a nitrogen tire fill for cars.

 

At this point the vast majority of us seem to agree that nitrogen fills are not worth the trouble. So now we are simply debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If anyone wants to learn the ins and outs of nitrogen fills, check the major tire company websites or sites such as The Tire Rack. Or simply Google "Nitrogen tire fills" and use a bit of common sense in which sites to use for reliable information.

 

I think the rest of us can find better things to do with our time (I hope) than debate a seemingly settled subject.

 

Jon, hope you understand that I am not trying to be a wiseguy in the least. I just think the information is out there for anyone who wants to research it, so we should let them do so. Other than that, we seem to agree on the lack of overall benefits concerning nitrogen tire fills.

 

Hope we can put this question to bed now, unless vanhalenrob has any further questions.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[vanhalenfanrob]

Hope we can put this question to bed now, unless vanhalerob has any further questions.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

 

no other questions, after your original reply i decided that it wasnt worth it

 

i was just curious cuz it just started popping up on belle tire ads here , and i did a litytle research

myself but your post helped alot thx

[Oman]

No arguments here, as this seems to be an ongoing debate well outside this forum. My background comes from being friends with chemists, and a few people in both the racing field and the large fleet truck maintenance field. If you scan the web you will find a few small studies that show marginal improvements in leakage rates. This could be caused by the reduction in heat expansion or a zillion other things, but there are a TON of articles that quote the molecule size and that is just plain non-science according to everything my friends and I know about chemistry, likely printed one time by someone who was guessing and replicated internet-style. I guess the point I was trying to make (poorly) was that in extreme conditions there are improvements in leakage rates and expansion rates - BUT for a road vehicle it makes essentially zero difference and just wastes money. The science behind it all is irrelevant once you get to that point.

 

 

If I was sponsoring a Nascar team I and I needed every possible edge I would use nitrogen fills. If I was going for the X-Prize I would as well. The last time I purchased tires they said that they would use nitrogen and I asked how much I would save if they didn't - they said I save $0.00. That told me that a nitrogen fill is worth $0.00.

 

 

 

PS: I have some audiophile friends as well. They may plunk down $100.00 for the low-oxygen pure copper hand inspected POWER CABLE for their amp, but I won't :>

 

 

Jon

 

 

Hi Jon. :D I am only replying here and now because you quoted one of my previous replies.

 

Just to make it perfectly clear, I have not advocated and am not advocating nitrogen fills. In fact, I have done the best I can to make my opinion clear without ramming it down the throat of the OP (vanhalenrob). I do not have nitrogen in my tires, and I will not have nitrogen in my tires. It is not worth the trouble, in my opinion.

 

Concerning the "leakage question": If anyone wishes to debate that point, you will need to argue with the major tire manufacturers websites, expert tire websites such as The Tire Rack, Discount Tire etc, automotive information magazines such as Motor Trend, Car and Driver etc etc. The information on those sites would disagree with your statement concerning leakage rates (in a properly maintained tire) and molecule size.

 

And just as an FYI: In addition to the reasons you already mentioned, the main reason that nitrogen is used in spacecraft like the escape shuttle (tires etc) and aircraft is due to the fact that nitrogen is non-combustible. In other words, it will not burn. The threat of fire is a major concern in space and aircraft.

 

But those questions are not the only concern (nor the main concern) in skipping a nitrogen tire fill for cars.

 

At this point the vast majority of us seem to agree that nitrogen fills are not worth the trouble. So now we are simply debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If anyone wants to learn the ins and outs of nitrogen fills, check the major tire company websites or sites such as The Tire Rack. Or simply Google "Nitrogen tire fills" and use a bit of common sense in which sites to use for reliable information.

 

I think the rest of us can find better things to do with our time (I hope) than debate a seemingly settled subject.

 

Jon, hope you understand that I am not trying to be a wiseguy in the least. I just think the information is out there for anyone who wants to research it, so we should let them do so. Other than that, we seem to agree on the lack of overall benefits concerning nitrogen tire fills.

 

Hope we can put this question to bed now, unless vanhalenrob has any further questions.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[bbf2530]

...in extreme conditions there are improvements in leakage rates and expansion rates - BUT for a road vehicle it makes essentially zero difference and just wastes money. The science behind it all is irrelevant once you get to that point.

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon. :D I think you perfectly sum up the "should I or shouldn't I fill with nitrogen" question with the above quote from your last reply.

 

I don't believe any of us could state it clearer.

 

Good luck. :beerchug: