Tires, any favorites? Michelin Defender, Premier A/S, Energy Saver

[billford]

What? a few updates? I asked the dealer about this. They said there hasn't been any. How do I get one?

 

There's been more than a few, engine, audio, climate control, park assist, sync. You may not need all of them, but if you want the latest and greatest, it doesn't hurt to get them.

I posted quite a few here on this fourm some years ago.

 

You probably should find another dealer if they told you there hasn't been any...because that's just plain wrong...

Edited August 7, 2019 by billford

[billford]

Tire pressure is always measured when tires are cold,

 

Paul

 

Paul

 

How cold?

 

Ford has a chart in the service manuals that says to measure at 72F. And give you a table to add or subtract if the temperature is higher or lower than 72

Edited August 7, 2019 by billford

[ptjones]

 

How cold?

 

Ford has a chart in the service manuals that says to measure at 72F. And give you a table to add or subtract if the temperature is higher or lower than 72

 

 

I found this on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_inflation_pressure At 40-50 psi range you

Another interesting note is that tire pressure changes with altitude, living in Flagstaff,AZ at 7k ft. going down to Pheonix at 1k ft. you would lose 3 psi tire pressure.

 

Bottom line is it is better to be over inflated by 5 psi than under inflated 5 psi. :)

 

Paul

[Timewellspent]

Tire Rack Reviews:

 

Energy Savers:

Wet Performance 7.3 [7.4 Hydroplaning Resistance, 7.2 Wet Traction]

Winter/Snow Performance 5.0 [5.9 Light Snow Traction, 4.6 Deep Snow Traction, 4.5 Ice Traction]

 

Defenders:

Wet Performance 9.0 [9.0 Hydroplaning Resistance, 9.0 Wet Traction]

Winter/Snow Performance 7.7 [8.4 Light Snow Traction, 7.6 Deep Snow Traction, 7.1 Ice Traction]

 

I will take the safety of the Defenders over MPG's of the Energy Savers... :arrive_alive:

Edited August 7, 2019 by Timewellspent

[ethermion]

Tire Rack Reviews:

 

Energy Savers:

Wet Performance 7.3 [7.4 Hydroplaning Resistance, 7.2 Wet Traction]

Winter/Snow Performance 5.0 [5.9 Light Snow Traction, 4.6 Deep Snow Traction, 4.5 Ice Traction]

 

Defenders:

Wet Performance 9.0 [9.0 Hydroplaning Resistance, 9.0 Wet Traction]

Winter/Snow Performance 7.7 [8.4 Light Snow Traction, 7.6 Deep Snow Traction, 7.1 Ice Traction]

 

I will take the safety of the Defenders over MPG's of the Energy Savers... :arrive_alive:

 

Yup. Our FFH is my beautiful bride's daily driver. Ain't takin' no chances with her safety. You need a microscope to see any change in MPG. Performance is massively improved.

[ptjones]

Tire Rack Reviews:

 

Energy Savers:

Wet Performance 7.3 [7.4 Hydroplaning Resistance, 7.2 Wet Traction]

Winter/Snow Performance 5.0 [5.9 Light Snow Traction, 4.6 Deep Snow Traction, 4.5 Ice Traction]

 

Defenders:

Wet Performance 9.0 [9.0 Hydroplaning Resistance, 9.0 Wet Traction]

Winter/Snow Performance 7.7 [8.4 Light Snow Traction, 7.6 Deep Snow Traction, 7.1 Ice Traction]

 

I will take the safety of the Defenders over MPG's of the Energy Savers... :arrive_alive:

Good for you and I will still stick with the Energy Savers with 2-3 mpg better gas mileage and at 50 psi I'm not having any performance Problems. FORD choose those tires to be the best for the car or they would have put something else on them. :)

 

Paul

[Sky14FFH]

There's been more than a few, engine, audio, climate control, park assist, sync. You may not need all of them, but if you want the latest and greatest, it doesn't hurt to get them.

I posted quite a few here on this fourm some years ago.

I'll ask the dealer I get my oil changed at since they are top rated. I had asked the dealer I bought it from. I think I need an engine and climate control update since it will just not warm up in the winter. Sounds like a stupid question but how to I get them to check for the updates and apply them? Does Ford have any info on this? Dealers around here are notoriously dense.

[Sky14FFH]

You need a microscope to see any change in MPG.

Well not exactly. The premiers are rated just below the energy savers on fuel economy but above the defenders on performance. I just filled up at 572.3 miles just after the light went off and got 46.7 mpg. Last year that would have been over 600 miles and 51.7 mpg with the energy savers on it. Everyone is right on this thread but that's quite a hit in fuel economy. I WISH I could fill up to 42psi but I can't with these roads. I'm going to hope it has been my driving style lately and try to get the computer to re-"learn" that I am an easy driver. Sometimes the engine will rev up into higher rpms just as I approach 40mph so it may be "thinking" I am still trying to accelerate hard. It has been doing that often. Is there a way to reset the computer like on older cars by disconnecting the battery?

Edited August 7, 2019 by Sky14FFH

[ethermion]

Well, MPGs also depend on driving patterns. My lovely bride's commute (her car) is like 17 miles each way, and takes an hour to an hour and a half each way. Most any hybrid, regardless of the tires, is awesome when the car is not moving. Better tires makes her happy in inclement weather, and she likes the response when slamming on the brakes. I am sold.

 

Back to Paul, yes Ford chose those tires. Ford also chose to put a sticker in the door that says 35 psi.

[ptjones]

Well, MPGs also depend on driving patterns. My lovely bride's commute (her car) is like 17 miles each way, and takes an hour to an hour and a half each way. Most any hybrid, regardless of the tires, is awesome when the car is not moving. Better tires makes her happy in inclement weather, and she likes the response when slamming on the brakes. I am sold.

 

Back to Paul, yes Ford chose those tires. Ford also chose to put a sticker in the door that says 35 psi.

Also one on my door that says 38 psi. not 35 psi, so you would agree using 50 psi is OK because I found the car performs better. Plus the tires last longer and I get better gas mileage. Win Win, Makes sense to me. :)

 

Paul

Edited August 7, 2019 by ptjones

[ethermion]

Your sticker may be different because YOU DO NOT OWN A FORD FUSION HYBRID.

[2014FordFusionSE]

See: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/02/how-much-air-should-i-put-in-my-tires.html

 

Quotes from the article above:

 

“That [tire's sidewall] pressure is simply the maximum pressure the tire is designed to carry,” said Kurt Berger, Manager of Consumer Products Engineering at Bridgestone. Do not put that much air in the vehicle’s tires. “Always follow the door jamb” he said.

 

According to Berger the maximum inflation pressure for modern tires is typically between 44 and 51 PSI (pounds per square inch). If a driver inadvertently puts too much air in a tire it won’t necessarily cause any damage, but it will impact other aspects of the vehicle. “The concern is not the structural integrity of the tire,” he said.

According to Berger “handling and stability could really be diminished.”He said over inflation “reduces the size of the contact patch significantly,” impacting ride quality, passenger comfort and the wear characteristics of a tire.

 

There are misconceptions that higher inflation pressure delivers better fuel economy, handling and tire wear, but “That’s not necessarily true on any of those,” he said. Automakers have optimized these parameters “To give you the best balance of all the attributes.” Car companies arrive at their ratings after exhaustive testing that can take years to complete. Because of this it’s best to follow their specific recommendations.

[ptjones]

Your sticker may be different because YOU DO NOT OWN A FORD FUSION HYBRID.

You missed the point, the cars are basically the same and yet FORD decided to have different pressures, they would have had the same if this was a safety issue so it must be a comfort issue for the difference which agrees with the INFO I got from talking to the TIRE RACK tire testers.

 

The Bottom Line is that Experience Trumps All Other Forms of Information. Talking to Michelin Rep they recommend starting with FORD's recommended pressure and then find the pressure that gives even tire wear. I told him I was using 50 psi and getting even tire wear. He Said "Then he wouldn't have problem with that and not to exceed 51 psi." BTW the bursting pressure is around 200 psi or so you don't have to worry about that. An auto mechanic on CMAX forum used 55 psi with no problems, but I wouldn't recommend this. I did look at a number of used FFH in Dealers lots and sure enough the tires were wearing more on the edges than the center which is a sign of under inflation. So it is obvious 35 psi is to low to get even tire wear.

 

Facts: FFH can use 35 psi to 51 psi from OM and on the sidewall of Michelin ES.

With 220k miles of experience my tires last longer and perform better than they did at 38 psi and get better gas mileage.

The nice thing about tire pressure is you can raise it up and try it out and then decide what to do next, you can always go back. :)

Note: Tires aren't very sensitive to pressure, if you go up to 40 psi you will probably not notice a difference. At 45 psi you will notice a little difference and 50 psi a little more.

 

Paul

[Waldo]

You missed the point, the cars are basically the same and yet FORD decided to have different pressures, they would have had the same if this was a safety issue so it must be a comfort issue for the difference which agrees with the INFO I got from talking to the TIRE RACK tire testers.

 

The Bottom Line is that Experience Trumps All Other Forms of Information. Talking to Michelin Rep they recommend starting with FORD's recommended pressure and then find the pressure that gives even tire wear. I told him I was using 50 psi and getting even tire wear. He Said "Then he wouldn't have problem with that and not to exceed 51 psi." BTW the bursting pressure is around 200 psi or so you don't have to worry about that. An auto mechanic on CMAX forum used 55 psi with no problems, but I wouldn't recommend this. I did look at a number of used FFH in Dealers lots and sure enough the tires were wearing more on the edges than the center which is a sign of under inflation. So it is obvious 35 psi is to low to get even tire wear.

 

Facts: FFH can use 35 psi to 51 psi from OM and on the sidewall of Michelin ES.

With 220k miles of experience my tires last longer and perform better than they did at 38 psi and get better gas mileage.

The nice thing about tire pressure is you can raise it up and try it out and then decide what to do next, you can always go back. :)

Note: Tires aren't very sensitive to pressure, if you go up to 40 psi you will probably not notice a difference. At 45 psi you will notice a little difference and 50 psi a little more.

 

Paul

 

Tires are very sensitive to pressure, but some driver's aren't. I can definitely notice the difference when I raise mine from 35psi to 38psi. It's a pretty big hit to the ride on the bad roads around here.

[2014FordFusionSE]

Like Waldo, I can easily tell when the tires are over-inflated. The ride feels bumpier.

 

Paul, one of the factors taken into account for the recommended pressure is the weight of the car. Since the Fusion and CMAX differ in weight, their recommended pressure will differ.

Some vehicles also show different pressure recommendations based on whether the vehicle is carrying max. load or not.

If 50 psi works for you, it's great but I think it will make a difference to the ride.

[billford]

. I did look at a number of used FFH in Dealers lots and sure enough the tires were wearing more on the edges than the center which is a sign of under inflation. So it is obvious 35 psi is to low to get even tire wear.

 

 

 

How do you know what pressures all the cars had?

Do you go around checking other cars tire pressures? That's so weird...

[ptjones]

Like Waldo, I can easily tell when the tires are over-inflated. The ride feels bumpier.

 

Paul, one of the factors taken into account for the recommended pressure is the weight of the car. Since the Fusion and CMAX differ in weight, their recommended pressure will differ.

Some vehicles also show different pressure recommendations based on whether the vehicle is carrying max. load or not.

If 50 psi works for you, it's great but I think it will make a difference to the ride.

As I have said before the CMAX base weight is 10 lbs lighter than the FFH so in theory it should have a lower pressure than FFH not 3 psi more. You are right in that Your tire pressure should change with Gross Vehicle Weight . There is no info in OM about changing tire pressure unfortunately. For me I have saved about $500 going to 50 psi tire pressure by improved mpg's and tires lasting 25% longer. 50 psi does make for a little stiffer ride and I think all the improvements in performance, gas mileage, tire longevity and 1/4" increase in ground clearance is definitely worth it . :) I find it odd that you wouldn't be curious enough to spend 5 min. to put air in your tires and try it out for a day or two.

It's easy to let air out. There a few members complaining about performance of the Energy Savers and this is a easy way to improve them.

 

 

How do you know what pressures all the cars had?

Do you go around checking other cars tire pressures? That's so weird...

What is so weird? You should have a tire pressure gauge and tread depth indicator in your car so you can measure the pressure when you put air in your tires and also measure tread often to see how the tires are wearing.

I use these to measure the used FFH tire wear.

 

Paul

Edited August 9, 2019 by ptjones

[billford]

I did look at a number of used FFH in Dealers lots and sure enough the tires were wearing more on the edges than the center which is a sign of under inflation. So it is obvious 35 psi is to low to get even tire wear.

Paul

you said you checked a number of other cars that had tire wear and concluded 35 is too low

How do you know what pressure they had to cause the tire wear?

The only way to know is if you actually go around and check other cars tire pressures. And even then, you can't possibly know what pressures they had before to be causing this wear.

What is so weird? You should have a tire pressure gauge and tread depth indicator in your car so you can measure the pressure when you put air in your tires and also measure tread often to see how the tires are wearing.

I use these to measure the used FFH tire wear.

Paul

 

What's so weird is, you, going around, checking other cars tires pressures. Who else does that??? Do strangers come around and check your tire pressures?

Edited August 9, 2019 by billford

[ptjones]

 

you said you checked a number of other cars that had tire wear and concluded 35 is too low

How do you know what pressure they had to cause the tire wear?

The only way to know is if you actually go around and check other cars tire pressures. And even then, you can't possibly know what pressures they had before to be causing this wear.

You, going around, checking other cars tires pressures is what's weird. Who else does that??? Someone looking to find the Truth on tire wear vs tire pressure, there is to much Miss Information out there so you need to check it out yourself. :)

 

As you would aspect the FFH's I looked at had 35 psi tire pressure, why would anyone use lower tire pressure than that? For the first 10k miles on my car I used 38 psi and the tire edges were wearing more then the center, so I looked at a thread on tire pressures to use and some CMAX members were using 45 to 55 psi. I contacted Michelin and talked to a Rep and he said He had no problem using 50 psi. with the Energy Savers so I have been using 50 psi for 222k miles and getting even tire wear. Saving $500 is a big deal on set of tires for me. :) From a safety stand point you need to use tire pressure where the tires wear evenly for the best cornering and stopping distances.

 

Paul

[billford]

As you would aspect the FFH's I looked at had 35 psi tire pressure, why would anyone use lower tire pressure than that? For the first 10k miles on my car I used 38 psi and the tire edges were wearing more then the center, so I looked at a thread on tire pressures to use and some CMAX members were using 45 to 55 psi. I contacted Michelin and talked to a Rep and he said He had no problem using 50 psi. with the Energy Savers so I have been using 50 psi for 222k miles and getting even tire wear. Saving $500 is a big deal on set of tires for me. :) From a safety stand point you need to use tire pressure where the tires wear evenly for the best cornering and stopping distances.

 

Paul

 

You can't guess anybody has their tires set to 35, so your wrong on that point. Many people drive with under inflated tires. So your comment about 35 being too low on a Fusion is invalid because you don't even know what the other vehicles tire pressures are.

 

You can use whatever pressures you want, but I think the majority of Fusion owners here trust Ford engineers who determine correct tire pressures for their Fusions.

 

This is a Fusion forum, not a cmax forum. Keep the discussions to Fusions, not cmax.

Edited August 9, 2019 by billford

[ptjones]

You are guessing in your scenario and I actually measured FFH tires to show my point. Most members take their cars to FORD Dealer to get their oil changed and they check your tire pressures as part of that service. What are your tire pressures and thread depths across your tires. Are they Michelin Energy Savers? Notice you are using 40 psi so I guess you don't trust FORD Engineers?

 

I have put out plenty of information out there to let members decide for themselves what works for them. Good Luck :)

 

Paul

[billford]

You are guessing in your scenario and I actually measured FFH tires to show my point. Most members take their cars to FORD Dealer to get their oil changed and they check your tire pressures as part of that service. What are your tire pressures and thread depths across your tires. Are they Michelin Energy Savers? Notice you are using 40 psi so I guess you don't trust FORD Engineers?

 

I have put out plenty of information out there to let members decide for themselves what works for them. Good Luck :)

 

Paul

 

I don't really know what you are doing. If your guessing, or going around to other cars measuring tire pressures. It does not prove anything as you don't know what pressures they had before. Just hope you had permission to touch someone elses car, or they may get the wrong idea...

 

Yes, I do trust ford engineers and use their baseline of 35. You certainly do not, blocking air flow and whatever else.

I will sacrifice a little comfort for a little extra rim protection on my Fusion, so I use 40.

Edited August 9, 2019 by billford

[ptjones]

I did get permission from the car Dealers to check their cars and they didn't mind. :) If you watched my videos you would understand what I'm doing : http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/11745-how-to-drive-a-ford-fusion-hybrid-to-get-great-gas-mileage/page-1

 

You are fooling yourself if you are getting rim protection by lowering your tire pressure, then again you actually raised your tire pressure. I have no problem with members driving their cars the way they like. I'm just giving them more info so they can make informed decisions. :)

 

Paul

[billford]

I did get permission from the car Dealers to check their cars and they didn't mind. :) If you watched my videos you would understand what I'm doing : http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/11745-how-to-drive-a-ford-fusion-hybrid-to-get-great-gas-mileage/page-1

 

You are fooling yourself if you are getting rim protection by lowering your tire pressure, then again you actually raised your tire pressure. I have no problem with members driving their cars the way they like. I'm just giving them more info so they can make informed decisions. :)

 

Paul

 

That's good you have permission. So, then you actually do go around and check other cars tires. And you concluded that they have 35 with tire wear, and conclude 35 is too low. So what was the average pressures during the tire life of these cars? Were they underinflated at any time? Do you check other cars tires on a regular basis?

 

Where did I write that I lowered my pressure?

 

All I know is I drive on potholed roads, and my rims are original and like new with 40. Although the tire center is worn slightly more as expected with more pressure. On my Fusion, the rims are more expensive than tires, so I would rather replace tires, not the rims.

Edited August 9, 2019 by billford

[ethermion]

This is really sideways again.

 

The guy who put the sticker in the door jam that says 35 PSI knows a 10000x more about tires than Paul.

 

That Paul claims he went hunting around a car dealership with a pressure gauge and permission is likely bull crackers. I know a guy who owns 13 dealerships, and he said he would have called the police.

 

And, again, Paul (if that is his real name) DOES NOT OWN A FORD FUSION HYBRID.