Info on transmissions (eCVT) that have failed

[ptjones]

Our 2013 FFH 105k miles, built November 2012 - transmission failed with grinding noise. The car showed no check - engine light or other error signals. Car stopped in the middle of the street, unable to move. Turning the car off, then back on again - we were able to drive a block to the dealer. I can hear a loud grinding noise when the gas pedal was depressed. The dealer diagnosis was bad transmission, recommended installing a replacement to the cost of $8000 + tax. After some back and forth offered to lower the price to $5100 + tax.

 

Ford customer service rep refused any assistance with the repair, stating warranty had expired. I tried arguing that the problem appears to be factory/design issue, but the rep kept repeating "sorry sir, we have no programs that would enable us to assist you in any way".

 

For the record we has ESP up to 100k miles, expired Dec 2017 - we never made any claims on it. Car was fully maintained at Santa Margarita Ford all records are up to date.

 

So add one to the list.

This is the first case that I have heard of a trans problem where the car actually stopped on all three forums I visit. I know I drove on the fwy for 1100 miles after the trans started making noise, car was running fine, but noise was getting louder. I would say your case is very rare and it is too bad you didn't extend your warranty like I did, as it turned out I didn't need too because it failed at 98k miles. I knew mine was going to fail because I was monitoring TFT and was seeing a gradual rise in temps for the prior 2-3 months. Sorry to hear about your problems and would recommend you find a Dealer that has replaced several so they don't have to learn on yours. ;( I have heard that some of the transmissions have had minor repair work done, but don't know anything about it. Good Luck

 

Paul

Edited November 28, 2018 by ptjones

[lolder]

These transmissions have been failing since manufacturing began of the 2013 Ford transmissions. It is a manufacturing defect, not wear and tear. Transmissions shouldn't fail before 150,000, 200,000 miles. If Ford does not know which parts are faulty and if indeed a small percentage of them have failed particularly out of warranty it would cost little for them to extend coverage well past 100,000 miles. They haven't ! The 2010-12 FFHs, the 2015+ FFHs are all great cars. The 2013-14 can be lemons because of this problem and the HVAC duct mold problem. We will forever disagree about this and I am not irrational about it. I know of no Aisin transmissions in the pre 2013s that have had this problem. The design is such that they should outlast automatic transmissions several times over. Cab companies tearing down first generation Escape hybrid transmissions ( Aisins ) at 350,000 miles report they look new. This recent failure is proof Ford is waiting out the warranty expiration on this issue ( so far ).

 

I don't own one but I know all about it and my efforts are to encourage the "squeaky wheel to get the grease". This is a forum for owners, not Ford. What are your efforts?

Edited March 9, 2018 by lolder

[ptjones]

Here is a Link to trans failures on CMAX Hybrid site for all FFH, CMAX Hybrid and Energi's. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5288-mileage-and-build-date-for-ecvt-that-have-failed/page-1 as you can see only 23 documented failures total and it would appear the first failures where in 2014. If owners want longer coverage they can buy it like I did. I think 8yr/100k mi. is very reasonable. I have 187k miles on my 2013 CMAX Hybrid and any problems I have had were covered under the warranty. There have only been a few people that have had trans problems past 100k miles and almost all CMAX Owners love their cars and I think the same can be said for FFH Owners. I don't see a real problem here IMO. :)

 

Paul

[lolder]

We all love these cars until we have a $5000 repair bill in mid life of the car. 100,000 miles is mid-life now. This is an anecdotal forum without valid statistics so its hard to project rate of problems onto the entire fleet but I still think there are far too many failures. The 2013s also had the case seam oil leaks and the minor drive shaft "clicks". A neighbor has admired my 2010 for some time. He told me about a really cheap deal offer on a low mileage 2013 and I told him about the problems and unless the transmission had been repaired to avoid it. He just got a great deal on a loaded 2017 Titanium.

[Texasota]

Lolder, an 8/100,000 warranty on the transmission and hybrid components is a stunning factory warranty. Even more so when you consider that the average length of time a new car is kept in the US is 71.4 months. How long do you feel an auto manufacturer should be on the hook for free repair or replacements? Should it be 150,000 miles, 250,000 miles or maybe make it an even 500,000 miles? And you did not answer my question, is recalling 72,675 FFHs and replacing the transmissions free of charge what you are demanding? If it is, then say so.

 

I'm kind of slow to figure this out but its becoming clear where all your emotion is coming from. Ford redesigned your beloved Aisin transmission and shipped a defect that is causing a tiny percentage of the 2013 and 2014 models to require a warranty replacement. Because of this Ford must be punished, they must pay a price and as you stated in another one of your "over the top" posts we all need to stop purchasing Ford products.

 

No, whipping yourself up into this frothy lather over a problem in a car that you don't own is not rational. Ford is honoring the warranty and replacing the transmissions that have a problem. There is no major unresolved issue here. Good grief, get over it.

 

These posts have reminded me of the pitfalls of being an early adopter of a new model (or redesign). Consumer Reports has consistently recommended waiting a couple of years before buying a new model (https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/consumer-reports-car-reliability-survey-2017/). I was an early adopter of the 2012 Ford Focus and that was a huge mistake. I learned my lesson the hard way and waited two years for the 2015 FFH.

[tuxedohybrid]

I am wondering if there are any updated statistics on the failure of the 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid transmissions as of late that others may be able to share.

 

I have a '13 FFH with almost 110,000 miles on it and have not serviced the transmission or had it replaced. The only issue I notice is that on occasion is that when shifting into reverse when leaving work, I will occasionally hear a very brief noise that sounds like 3 knocks/chugs. I have chalked this up to being parked on an incline in a parking ramp, and don't notice it hardly ever when parked on a flat service.

 

In talking with a local transmission mechanic about our other vehicle ('10 Ford Escape), I mentioned the FFH and asked about what service I may need to do to reduce upcoming expenses, thinking that I may be approaching the time for some service. He said it was probably about time to have it serviced (about $300-$350). He also asked if I plan to keep it, as his recommendation is to run, not walk, to trade it in because of the known issues with the eCVT transmissions.

 

What would others recommend? KBB only values the vehicle at $4k-$5k and it is paid off, and it seems like reading through various threads that the transmission replacement could be $4k-$7k. I do not have any sort of extended warranty. Thanks in advance for guidance on the FFH transmission or statistics about transmission failures.

[lolder]

There is no servicing for the transmission. There are no "tune-ups" required anymore. Follow the maintenance schedule in the Owners guide. I'd sell or trade it in before the transmission goes. Despite Texasotas comments these Ford transmissions are unreliable because of bearing failures. The Japanese Aisin transmissions they are based on go hundreds of thousands of miles without problems. Cars shouldn't have engine or transmission problems for 150-200K miles today. The nature of the Aisin/Ford eCVT is it should outlast the car. There's nothing but bearings and gears in it; no torque converters, clutches, solenoids, valves, bands. All the delicate control is provided by software and electronics. Bearing technology is old. Why Ford has the problem is unknown. Lack of lubrication at higher speeds is one suggestion as the non-plug in FFHs lack an additional oil pump present in the plug ins and early in production Ford raised the maximum EV speed of the FFH to 86 mph to match the plug in. The non-plug in FFH transmission oil pump only operates when the ICE is running. The plug-in, all the time.

 

See post #31 from bill538 here: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6172-hybrid-transmission-hf35-fluid-level-check/page-2?do=findComment&comment=108775

Edited November 28, 2018 by lolder

[ptjones]

It appears to me that it was a heat treating the bearing problem, Energi's failed too so it wasn't a lube problem either. It would explain why some failed in the 10k miles and like mine at 98k miles and my new trans has 117k mi. and doing fine. Keep in mind that the Trans has two motor/generators in it too and is part of the reason they're so expensive. It would appear that most of the trans's that are going to fail have done so any future ones will have over a 100k miles and out of warranty. ;(

 

Paul

[lolder]

There's two over 100K here in this forum in the last week or so. Ford probably saved $0.89 per bearing by going to a cheaper supplier.

[ptjones]

There's two over 100K here in this forum in the last week or so. Ford probably saved $0.89 per bearing by going to a cheaper supplier.

Definitely a quality control problem. ;( Does appear that they fixed it.

 

Paul

[voltekhybrid444]

Hello everybody this is my first post here as I mostly work on Toyotas. I had a customer bring in a '14 FFH today, he had brought it to a transmission shop because there was a loud whine noise that seemed to be getting worse and sounded like it was coming from the trans. The techs at the trans shop couldn't find any issues with the brakes, steering/suspension, trans so they referred him to me. From their descriptions, the noise happens as described in TSB 14-0176, however on his 45 min drive to my shop the noise suddenly went away, when I drove it I could still hear it but he said it was much louder before. The trans shop already went through all the brakes, steering/suspension, motor mounts and couldn't find any issues. The car drives great and doesn't have any DTC's.

 

After reading all the threads on here I think a trans failure is possible, this FFH has 108k and we're in MI so no CARB here. I gave him the TSB number and told him to take it to the Ford dealer in his area and tell them he's having the same issue described in the TSB and to have them do a diagnostic to determine if this is a trans failure. If it is and they won't cover it, then i've already located a used trans in our area that I can install. I'm just trying to save him some money, since there's a TSB on this I figured it's worth a shot to see if they will pay for it.

 

I will update on here as this develops, thanks for the great website!

[forace2015]

Know this is an old topic but My 2015 Fusion Hybrid is in shop now for a tranny replacement. Only has 40000 miles on it.  Not the best feeling in the world and hope this is a one and done.

[ptjones]

I have 142k miles on my second one so not to worry. Look at it this way you just increased the value of your car for close to no cost to you.?

 

Paul

[mwr]

12 minutes ago, forace2015 said:

Know this is an old topic but My 2015 Fusion Hybrid is in shop now for a tranny replacement. Only has 40000 miles on it.  Not the best feeling in the world and hope this is a one and done.

Wow, sorry to hear that, including because I have a 2015 FFH and had thought/hoped that the 2015 models had been "fixed" for that problem.

[mwr]

3 minutes ago, ptjones said:

I have 142k miles on my second one so not to worry. Look at it this way you just increased the value of your car for close to no cost to you.?

 

Paul

Please remind me what the powertrain warranty is in years and miles.

[ptjones]

8yrs/100k miles

 

Paul

[mwr]

3 minutes ago, ptjones said:

8yrs/100k miles

Thanks. That means I'm covered through 100K miles since that will be before the 8 years runs.

[dogo88]

Might want to recheck those numbers with Ford. At Cars.com it lists the warranty at 60k miles or 60 months:

https://www.cars.com/research/ford-fusion_hybrid-2015/

 

[ptjones]

Here is a Link to FORD's Warranty for 2015 FFH: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2015-Ford-Hybrid-Car-Electric-Vehicle-Warranty-Guide-version-2_frdwa_EN-US_05_2014.pdf  Page 7.    8yrs/100k mi.

 

Paul

[mwr]

2 hours ago, ptjones said:

Here is a Link to FORD's Warranty for 2015 FFH: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2015-Ford-Hybrid-Car-Electric-Vehicle-Warranty-Guide-version-2_frdwa_EN-US_05_2014.pdf  Page 7.    8yrs/100k mi.

Yes, the hybrid trans is discussed on page 11 (numbered pages) / page 16 (of the pdf) and is 8 years / 100K miles.

[kuzzi]

Long time no visit everyone. Just popping in to let everyone know that I've got this issue now at 140,000 miles. Build date was Early 2013 if I remember correctly. It was part of the second phase of the first model year, one of the first Titaniums.

I'll be splitting the case and hoping all that needs replacement is the transfer shaft bearing, for about $500. Otherwise I'll be looking into a junkyard transmission but I'll need to find one from a later model year so to avoid the same issue as it does appear to be a heat treating issue on the earlier bearings/races.

[i.Love.my.fusion]

I'd posted about my transmission failure on another post/thread on this site, but I thought I'd add it here to be counted. 

 

I am the second owner of my 2013 FFH, I bought it at a dealership in 2016 and they offered an extended warranty, so I bought that too. I'm not usually one who gets warranties on anything in general, but I am SO GLAD I paid for this one. The warranty was basically a "factory warranty" and it covered the ENTIRE TRANSMISSION REPLACEMENT. I was within 1000 miles of the warranty ending. I was searching google like crazy, and I thank this forum SO MUCH for the awesome information on here because I wouldn't have been able to diagnose it otherwise. It was important for me (female) to be informed because the first time I took it in to get it checked out for this problem/noise, they said they didn't know what was wrong and tried to blame the brakes or rotors rubbing or something dumb like that. I was able to stand my ground and say, "No, I'm pretty sure this is a transmission problem and there is a TSB on it." They started to take this blonde girl seriously when I was able to give them the TSB and they could look it up and confirm this.

 

After I had it replaced, I have not heard any more noises. Though, during my oil changes, they've been reporting back to me that I have an engine leak somewhere. I looked back at my invoices from the transmission replacement, and it appears that the engine leak was present back then, so this is something that should have been fixed in the process.  I am going to pursue getting that fixed because otherwise it's a $175 diagnosis fee just for them to figure out what the problem is, not to mention paying for the labor of potentially pulling the engine out just to fix a leaky gasket of some sort (my guess). ughhh....

  

On 9/24/2018 at 1:42 PM, i.Love.my.fusion said:

I am also a person who is currently in the process of getting this problem fixed.

 

Stats: 2014 FFH, 96k mi, All recalls up to date.

Problem: Grinding/rubbing noise coming from front of car on deceleration (letting off gas pedal) when in EV (ICE is not running). This is usually when under 40 mph, very noticeable in town/neighborhood where the car should be silent.

Happens: Regardless if brakes are being pressed or not, whether AC/Air is on or not.

 

I am the second owner and bought in 2016. Luckily I purchased an extended warranty, but I am nearing the end of it (due to mileage, not time). I am within 1000 miles of end of warranty (sweaty face)!

 

THANKS TO THIS WEBSITE I was able to diagnose that THIS was the problem based on google searching for "2014 FFH noise on deceleration." Knowledge is power, and I was very happy to be able to have a rough idea of what my problem was prior to walking in to the dealership for service. Like I said, luckily I am still under warranty, because if I had to sell my car at nearly 100k miles, I wouldn't be able to get what it is still owed on it (another sweaty face).

 

I just dropped it off at the dealership this morning. They said that my warranty only pays for a rental for 5 days, so I settled for a shuttle home, and I expect to drive my (extremely poor MPG) old truck to and from work for the next week plus. I am lucky to have a 2nd vehicle, but I commute roughly 60 miles total per day in congested traffic conditions and my hybrid is my logical solution to sitting still in traffic: My thought when driving ICE cars, "my engine is running and i'm not going anywhere!" (hair tearing out!). Like my username says; i love my fusion hybrid!

 

I'm still waiting on the official diagnosis, but they said that the symptoms I was reporting do line up with the transmission problems that I found in my research.

 

I know this is an old topic, but I wanted to join and post about it (to return the favor), as this site has helped me so much already.

I will update when I get word from my dealer. Hoping for good news.

 

Ashley

 

[kuzzi]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:00 AM, kuzzi said:

Long time no visit everyone. Just popping in to let everyone know that I've got this issue now at 140,000 miles. Build date was Early 2013 if I remember correctly. It was part of the second phase of the first model year, one of the first Titaniums.

I'll be splitting the case and hoping all that needs replacement is the transfer shaft bearing, for about $500. Otherwise I'll be looking into a junkyard transmission but I'll need to find one from a later model year so to avoid the same issue as it does appear to be a heat treating issue on the earlier bearings/races.

 

We've replaced my transmission with one off a "new" 2017 C-Max that had flooded in Hurricane Harvey. 42 Miles on the new transmission. C-Max was in a junkyard in Illinois and still had window sticker on it so I saw it came from Mac Haik Ford in Pasadena, TX which is just down the road from me. Due to the year model and flood status and original location I knew this was a Harvey Flood car and I knew even cars that barely had wet floorboards were totaled. I called Mac Haik and they confirmed all the C-Maxes had water to just the floorboards, which was well below the trans vent. I purchased it and when it arrived I looked inside the axle spline holes and no sign of rust or contaminants. What little ATF was left in there that came out as we were moving it around was bright red and clean.

 

Good resource for the manual for performing the work is available from AllDataDIY. Highly recommend a car lift, material handling equipment, and transmission jack as the subframe needs to be removed. The engine doesn't have to come out but it may make it easier, we elected to leave the engine in. Removal took about 6 hours, install took about the same. Two or more sets of hands on it at all times.

 

We opened up my old transmission and determined the transfer shaft and bearings appear to be OK. The ICE and generator motor share a shaft through a planetary gearset and it appeared to be a a little wobbly which may be the root of my issues or its interface with the trans fluid pump. Trans input shaft seal appeared to have a small leak (maybe due to the vibrations/etc in that shaft. The passenger side axle shaft seal appeared to have a minor leak as well. Neither left puddles under the car or in the bellhousing. I do not know if there are replacement parts for that ICE shaft so I do not know if I will be able to refurbish the old transmission.

Edited September 10, 2020 by kuzzi
Corrected grammar, build date of donor vehicle.

[mwr]

That was a great find. How did you find it?

[kuzzi]

Car-part.com and dug around to find low miles, newer model, and no front end or axle damage. The rest was putting the puzzle pieces together on the flood status and contacting the dealership on the window sticker.