What did you cross shop your FFH with?

[machoman1337]

We have a thread for what people drove before buying the FFH... for younger ones like me who haven't owned more than 1 car before getting the FFH, here's a thread to talk about what else you had on your list when car-shopping, before settling on the FFH!

 

I started poking around in April 2014 when my exams ended, and actually bookmarked autotrader listings and maintained a spreadsheet in my Dropbox as I looked around. I went to test drive a few cars as well. My list of potential alternatives:

 

• Ford Fusion 1.5L brand new - Previously test drove the 2.5L over the winter holidays and liked the car. Wanted to have the leather and tech options and the 1.5L was the cheapest way to access those. Did not get to test drive the ecoboost, but I did waste hours on the ford.ca site building and rebuilding a 1.5L ecoboost just the way I wanted it and then oogling at the pictures.
• 2009 BMW 528i xDrive - Fully loaded with over 100,000 km. I knew it would be a dumb purchase with many trips to the dealer, but come on, a nice BMW for less than $20k CAD! And make everyone else jealous! So I went to test drive it. Check engine light came on during the test drive LMAO. Also the park distance control was stupid - the front sensors are disabled by default so that they "don't go off during traffic", as if people actually stop THAT close in traffic... if you're pulling into a space and want the front sensors to warn you, you need to remember to press the P button first. Today's 2015 BMWs still have that problem. And the iDrive system was not fun to use (using a freaking KNOB and not a touch screen to key in GPS destinations...). And there was no backup camera. Glad I didn't make the mistake of buying this.
• Chevrolet Volt brand new - Ontario government offered over $8k in rebates, much better than BC which only offered $5k. Test drove the car and liked it, but was a little peeved by the lack of power adjustable seats. Trunk was great though, much better than the FFH. Unfortunately, when I enquired about the rebate, I learned I'd need to keep the car registered in Ontario for at least 12 months after purchase to qualify. I was planning to leave the province in 2 months, so no Volt for me. I was really close to closing a deal, and both the dealer and I were disappointed.
• 2011 Acura TL - Still had a bit of warranty left with only 50,000 km, and residual value is one of the best-in-class, and as a Honda product the reliability is never something you even need to look at. Same UX problem as the BMW though - the navigation is controlled by some weird knob thingy and I much prefer touch screens. Also the 3.7L V6 engine was even more inefficient than the 3.0L duratec V6 in my 2008 Fusion. Plus the new Fusion had more tech options. Still, the driving experience was pretty good - responsive and sporty with comfortable seats.
• 2009 Lexus ES350 - Good all around, felt good as new despite having over 100,000 km, had a touchscreen navigation (unlike newer Lexuses), but the navigation software itself was crap, worse than even the Gen 1 sync on my 2008 Fusion. I'm already familiar with Lexus systems as my parents have them, and was hoping this ES would be a bit more modern, but nope, same outdated crap that doesn't even read out street names. Also the dealer staff were not very friendly (excessively pushy in fact), so even if the car suited my needs I probably wouldn't have bought it. I left the dealership with an angry face.
• Hyundai Sonata brand new - The 2010-2014 car is still a damn good looking car, better looking than its successor. Read reviews of the tech and the touchscreen nav looked suitable for me. Test drive was impressive too. As with the Fusion 1.5L, I saw this as a very compelling brand new purchase.

Then I saw a former demo FFH on autotrader, perfect colour combo, all desired options, great price, only 2000 km... and it became mine! The day after I finally drove off with the FFH, the Hyundai dealer called me back to ask if I still wanted a new Sonata (they didn't have the colour combo I wanted in stock but found one at another dealer's inventory and were prepared to truck it over). I told them I'd already found and purchased the perfect car :)

Edited June 10, 2015 by machoman1337

[hybridbear]

Good idea!

 

We compared the FFH & Camry Hybrid before settling on the FFH. We didn't consider any other cars. The other option we considered was just keeping our 2006 Honda Accord Hybrid. However, it was getting up there in miles and we calculated that if we kept it another year we'd have to spend thousands in routine maintenance just to keep it in good working order & we didn't want to continue pouring money into old cars like we had been doing with the previous older cars we had owned. There also was something to be said for the desire to own a "new" car versus having one that was 6+ years old.

[machoman1337]

Looks like quite a few people have experienced the Camry hybrid at some point before getting the FFH. I've sat in the back of a few that were being used as Toronto taxis - not the best way to experience once :P

 

What was your experience like with the Camry hybrid? I guess you test drove it... did it feel like it could compete with the FFH in comfort? The taxicab Camry hybrids I've sat in were loud and bumpy.

Edited June 8, 2015 by machoman1337

[CCalvinN]

The idea of buying a new car came on suddenly for me. I had only owned my 2012 Focus Titanium for 18 months and really loved it. I loved all the techy bits it had and I loved the fuel economy. But at some point in January of this year I saw a commercial for a midsize hybrid sedan and realized I could get a bigger car without sacrificing that fuel economy. Combine that thought with the fact that I was about to pass the 50,000 mile mark (getting close to exiting powertrain warranty) and the fact that I needed to buy new summer tires once the winter rubber came off got me into ‘search’ mode.

 

I had some pretty specific requirements for any new car. If I was going to replace a car that I really liked (and one that I owed more on than it was worth!), I wasn’t about to make any sacrifice. I briefly considered the Ford Fusion Energy but quickly figured that the additional cost wouldn’t be worth it with the 90 or so miles I put on it every day. Plus a new one was just out of my range with all the options I wanted. I could have gone with less options or a slightly used one, but again I wasn’t about to sacrifice.

 

That really left me with considering; Honda Accord, Hyundai Sonota, Kia Optima, Toyota Camry, VW Jetta, and Chevy Volt. All hybrids. The Jetta and Volt quickly were dropped from consideration on size concerns. Again… I was trying to get a larger car and not make a lateral move from the Focus.

 

After reading up on them, I didn’t like the hybrid systems in the Sonota and Optima. They had EPA numbers of 38/40 and 35/39 respectively. These were just a touch too close to the 28/38 of the Focus.

 

So that left me with a long look and comparison to the Accord. If all things were equal, I though the Fusion looked a LOT better. The Accord had better EPA numbers (50/45 compared to the Fusion’s 44/41) but didn’t include cooled seats or heated steering wheel as options. While I’ve never owned a Honda, I’ve driven plenty of them and have never liked their interiors. Just the feel of their seats and the layout of the dash seems ‘off’ to me.

 

I loved my Ford Focus and didn’t think the interior of the Fusion would be a disappointment… so I went with cooled seats, a heated steering wheel and slightly less mpg. I still get a little smile every time I see my Fusion or pass one on the street. I still don’t give the Accord a second look as it just blends into the background. In other words I couldn’t be happier with my purchase decision.

[hybridbear]

Looks like quite a few people have experienced the Camry hybrid at some point before getting the FFH. I've sat in the back of a few that were being used as Toronto taxis - not the best way to experience once :P

 

What was your experience like with the Camry hybrid? I guess you test drove it... did it feel like it could compete with the FFH in comfort? The taxicab Camry hybrids I've sat in were loud and bumpy.

Check out this thread: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/5940-toyota-camry-hybrid-vs-ffh/

[Hybrider]

When I was shopping for a new midsize hybrid sedan back in December 2013, I had already been bitten by the looks of the Fusion. And from a specs-only analysis, the FFH was one of the largest hybrids, but still had the best fuel economy rating out of all of the non-plugin hybrids at that time, except for the two smaller Prii.

But I still spent many hours studying the market of all available cars. The one source of data that provided the most succinct collection of data in regards to some of the most important aspects to me was the EPA's Fuel Economy Guides (2013 and 2014 FEGs). Those FEGs show not only the MPGs for each engine, but also the interior and cargo volume size. And the EPA guide also has the various car make/models sorted by many different sorting categories which make comparisons and viewing the complete market of vehicles very easy and handy since I can download them to my phone as well.

From the data in the EPA FEGs, there was one gas car which impressed me the most, for its good gas mileage, its midsize roominess even though I tend to think of it as a compact, and its low price, and that was the Toyota Corolla. But it still had lower MPGs than the FFH, had the all-too-common 3-box design and it was slightly smaller than the FFH too.

So I went to a Ford dealership and sat in several FFHs, and test drove one. I fell in love with the looks of the SE with the spoiler and 5-spoke wheels, the interior design, the comfort, the good bolster support of the seats, and the driveability, even though at that point I knew I'd be driving it just like a granny would since I was already driving my 2009 Buick Century like a granny.

But I still spent the time to research all of the online car data and brochures for all of the FFH competitors. And I also did take the time to visit some of the competitor sales lots to make sure that the FFH was definitely "THE ONE" for me, even though it was just about a given at that point already. I was actually selling the FFH to those poor salesmen better than they could sell their own cars to me.

So here is my high-level analysis of the FFH competitors during that time period in December 2013 when I was searching for my next car.

• Hyundai Sonata Hybrid and Kia Optima Hybrid - There were no 2014 models of either even at that late date (Dec 2013), and I didn't want a old leftover model. I do like their styling, but they had significantly lower MPGs than the FFH EPA ratings.
• Honda - Their new Accord Hybrid was not out yet at that time.
• Toyota Prius - The Prius and Prius C were too small for my tastes, and their styling is not as stylish to me as they once were since they are mostly unchanged for a whole decade. The Prius V, spec-wise, was a close competitor to the FFH, but not only did it have lower MPGs, its styling was even worse than the other Prii since it really, really looks like a station wagon, which in no way appealed to me.
• Toyota Camry Hybrid - The TCH was pretty much second place to the FFH for me, but it was still a very distant second place since I couldn't get past the 3-box styling, and it also had a lower EPA rating.
• Chevy Malibu eAssist and cousin Buick Lacrosse eAssist - They had no where near the MPGs of the FFH, nor quite the sporty styling.
• Chevy Volt - Very sporty, but a bit too small for me.
• C-MAX Hybrid - Not my style, and had lower MPGs than the super-sporty FFH anyways.
• Fusion Energi - Only comes in leather, and I'm a tree-hugging animal-lover, and the FFE has a tiny trunk too.
• VW Jetta Hybrid - Another 3-box style, and was a smaller size and had lower MPGs than the FFH.
• Luxury/CUV/SUV hybrid models - More expensive, lower MPGs, and most of them were not as sporty as the FFH.

The only other model besides the FFH which I would have seriously considered getting was the Tesla. But I could buy 3 FFHs for the price of the Tesla model with the largest battery option.

As you might surmise from my cross-shopping comments above, the other hybrid models didn't really stand a chance, since the FFH had everything I wanted: sportiness, comfort, techy-ness, one of the highest EPA MPG ratings, and all at a very reasonable price.

[rwhgme]

BMW 228i xDrive, Lexus RC Coupe, and our Fusion.

[Texasota]

I decided Ford was one and only manufacturer I would purchase from because Ford did not take government bailout money during the great recession. I test drove and considered a gas Fusion with the 2.5. It felt under powered on the highway and the MPG was a significant step down from the 2012 Ford Focus I was driving at that time. Glad I went with the FFH.

[jadei]

I test drove a new Honda Accord 4 cylinder CVT. I made sure to take it on the highway and it rode pretty rough and I wasn't impressed with the highway noise. I had a 2009 Mazda 6 and wanted something quieter than that on the highway and the Accord actually seemed louder to me. I was also spoiled by push button start, keyless entry, and XM radio that came standard on my 2009 Mazda iTouring. So whatever car I got had to have those features.

 

I was looking at the gas Fusions but wasn't convinced of the long-term reliability of the 4 cylinder turbos and the standard 4 cylinder had reviews saying it was underpowered...

 

I ended up going with my first hybrid since I am a technology geek as well as the awesome highway ride and quietness in my test drive of the Fusion. I also liked the color :) Deep impact blue color coming from owning a white car for 7 years was a nice change. The upgrades on the Fusion included what I had in the Mazda as well as more to spoil me when considering my next car someday: leather seats, auto-dimming rearview and driver side mirror, remote start, backup camera and sensors, and the keypad entry allowing the keyfob to stay in the car.

 

About to hit 1000 miles after owning it for 3 weeks and don't regret it at all!

Edited June 10, 2015 by jadei

[machoman1337]

about the power of the 2.5L in the standard Fusion: I rented one in Florida and floored it to 80mph on the freeways without feeling any lag, despite having the weight of 4 people + a completely filled trunk. 175 hp is very modest, but it certainly beats a Corolla or Prius with the same amount of human and luggage weight.

 

Looking back at my cross-shopping alternatives, I have few regrets. At 16,200 km (about 10,000 miles) now after owning the car for over 1 year.

[djminfll]

I cross-shopped the Camry Hybrid, as well as the Sonata Hybrid. I didn't consider the Prius as my dad has one, and I HATE driving it. I also considered the Passat Diesel as the only non-hybrid alternative.

I eliminated them because:

1. I found the interior of the Camry to be completely mediocre, and it drove erratically, not smooth like the FFH at all, and the braking felt artificial.

2. The Sonata didn't come close to the FFH mpg - even allowing for the fact that the FFH supposedly didn't make the EPA mpg, it still beat the Sonata by 5+ mpg.

3. I was very impressed with the VW Passat Diesel, but diesel fuel costs more than regular fuel (I know that changes, but at the time - and still - it was more), the diesel mpg is not as high as the Hybrid, and in my heart I really wanted the Fusion and thought I'd be unhappy with the VW when it wasn't really the car I wanted.

And I have never regretted the decision. I look forward to my hour long commute each morning, my weekend trips across state, and errands on weekends.

[Cobra348]

Ford got my vote after 40 years of other cars in 2010 when I got my first Fiesta (an '11). Eventually I had 2 '14s in the drive and one of them was traded for the FFH. I did not bother considering any other hybrid - not for a moment. Several reasons:

1. My brother has a '12 FFH and loves it. I wanted a crack at topping his mileage numbers. <shrug>

2. The looks of the FFH versus everything else ... stands out and draws the eyes quite rapidly.

3. Color and options are far better than others in it's class - gas, hybrid or plug-in hybrid.

4. Standard features top everything else in class as far as I can see.

5. Ford took no bailout cash when they could have ... that brought me back to Ford and has kept me here.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Cobra348

[hybridbear]

I'm somewhat surprised at the number of people who have positive feelings about Ford because they didn't take bailout money. I also respect Ford for that and it was part of our decision process. I respect Ford for that not from a "waste" of tax money perspective but more from a business practices perspective.

[machoman1337]

I'm somewhat surprised at the number of people who have positive feelings about Ford because they didn't take bailout money. I also respect Ford for that and it was part of our decision process. I respect Ford for that not from a "waste" of tax money perspective but more from a business practices perspective.

 

Ford simply had the best cars of the Big 3 at the time. They could've weathered the recession even better if they hadn't segregated their North American market from the global market (esp. Europe) so much - like seriously, why did it take so long for their superior Mondeo and Kuga to be unified with the North American offerings? Still, their North American models were more reliable and better looking and better equipped during the times GM and Chrysler had to file for bankruptcy. I remember that prior to the bailouts, GM and Chrysler were suffering from a "rental car image" problem - few people wanted to drive an Impala, Sebring, Cobalt, Calibre, PT Cruiser, or anything with the Pontiac badge, unless it was the only option at the rental car agency. Ford wasn't immune from this stigma but certainly didn't have quite so many models with a "rental car image".

 

Anyone else cross shop the Fusion with a luxury car? I've seen some people trade in BMWs and Audis for Fusions (both hybrid and nonhybrid). It shows that even the more well-heeled consumers are starting to see the Fusion as a quality product that suits their premium tastes.

[talmy]

Starting with some pre-purchase history, in 2007 we bought a Camry Hybrid. I did a lot of research and determined with our driving patterns (20k miles/year, little high speed driving, long trade-in cycles) a hybrid was the way to go. Not much choice then and the Camry was the best suited at the time. FWIW, I also liked the Fusion at the time and would have bought one if they had a hybrid model at the time (we had bought nothing but Fords since 1986).

 

Come November 2013 I wanted to buy a new hybrid with the safety features introduced in the intervening years. We checked out the Camry first and were totally disappointed in how little it changed in 7 years! Went to look at the Fusion and it was love at first sight for my wife (and second sight, considering the 2007 Fusion, for me). A superior car. We also looked at Accord (not yet available here at the time, but we looked at the comparable Gas model), the Avalon (reminded me most of the Fusion, but more expensive for what it has), and the "SUV" C-MAX and Prius V. I guess we are sedan people! Didn't consider a plug-in hybrid.

 

[ElectricFan69]

Looks like quite a few people have experienced the Camry hybrid at some point before getting the FFH. I've sat in the back of a few that were being used as Toronto taxis - not the best way to experience once :P

 

What was your experience like with the Camry hybrid? I guess you test drove it... did it feel like it could compete with the FFH in comfort? The taxicab Camry hybrids I've sat in were loud and bumpy.

We still own a 2008 TCH. Liked the new one - one significant annoyance was that rear A/C vents only came in the XLE (important in FL if you carry anyone in the back seat), and the "ENTUNE" infotainment was underwhelming. Didn't like the 'Ginsued guppy mouth" of the '15 TCH, and the dealers weren't willing to deal much, particularly on 16's. The TCH is a bit quicker, with somewhat worse FE - although my experience is that Toyota is pretty straight-up on being able to get the EPA numbers. I drove the current gen TCH several times and for extended periods - the unit with Bridgestone tires felt bad; the unit with Michelin was quieter and smoother. Relative to my '08, the new ones seem to be trying to be 'sportier', but in a GM harsh spring and shock way. Really, the current purchase could have gone either way - I liked both cars, and had details on both that were less than ideal. After a month, my gripes with the FFH are really minor - nothing serious enough to go back to the dealer with.

• The rubber around the sunroof is a bit grey - I'm used to having weatherstrip/trim like this black until it fades after 7-8 years. This one seems pre-faded.
• In the same vein, there is something that either the dealer or Ford used on the area that's a dirt magnet - think lube overspray. When I make some time, I'll clay the area and re-wax and see what's what.
• I'm not loving the lift points (or lack of same) on the FFH. Looks like I'll be purchasing some jack accessories to conveniently do oil, inspections, and tires and such. The TCH had convenient front and center rear jacking and tow attachment points that made a floor jack easy-peasy. The FFH - not so much. I get that having a smooth undertray is a compromise - but still...
• Looked at the details (DIY) for the cabin air filter change. The guys who signed off on that design integration should be sentenced to 5 years of replacing cabin air filters. Guess I'll need to look at the task as an 'extra hour of bonding time' with the car :idea: . Still - really, guys, are you hating service techs and owners that much? Had a similar PIA setup with my old Honda van - and I dealt. But the TCH allows you to flip down the glove box, swap the filter out and vacuum the crud in 5 minutes or less. No screws and no tools needed. Now the glovebox on the FFH does seem like it's a bit more versatile (shelves vs. single bin) - so this is a bit of a trade-off: nicer for every day, but more PIA for maintenance. To me the 'ideal' would be easily accessible under hood. :idea:
• I like the Ford oil filter placement/access relative to the new TCH. Didn't feel the love for the canister-and-element design; spin-on is easier. If recycled, it's no less green - tossing oil-soaked elements into the landfill is not a good thing. Auto parts places around here take the filters with the waste oil for recycling...
• There are some packaging decision Ford made that seem like huge 'opportunity costs'. Examples include how they cover the gooseneck hinges, a strategy that eats several inches of trunk width and load floor. I'd gladly pay $100 extra to get 'space saving' hinges that don't eat nearly as much space. Ditto on the trunk trim that seems to waste space on the left by the 12V battery. Ditto on how the air compressor and the rest are packaged in the spare tire well. Seems like the Styrofoam holder is a part of rear crash energy management structure - but it still wastes space that could be a very useful ditty compartment. If I get ambitious, I'll make a set of dividers out of plastic honeycomb that provides more useful space. Did that on the spare tire in the TCH, and it turned out quite handy.
• The traction battery packaging could be better - that was my 'deal-breaker' with the Energi variant - with which I could have avoided gasoline consumption for 'regular-commuting' usage. The FFH has enough luggage space to be competitive, but more is always better.
• On the positive side, the driving experience, steering response, overall tracking, line precision are remarkably better with the FFH. With my TCH, I ended up working with the alignment tech to dial in a bit more front toe to improve tracking - and the new TCH I drove felt it needed the same sort of love. Nothing dramatic, but one might be surprised how much difference a seemingly minor tweak in suspension settings can make. The FFH seems to better resist cross-wind wander - although I really haven't had it out in challenging wind conditions at highway speeds. Time and tire wear will tell - some of the wandering didn't get noticeable until the TCH had 5-6K miles on it.
• My biggest gripe with the series TCH I have was the durability of interior components (e.g. dash pad) and some rubber pieces (e.g. exterior trunk switch cover). A related matter was the number of rattles the car developed over the years. Remains to be seen if the FFH will turn out better after 7 years - but I hope to find out.

 

My 'lifetime average' with the '08 TCH over 73K+ miles was a mite under 40, with highs of 44 and lows of 36. EPA numbers on the car were 35/33. First 2 tanks on the FFH were 38 and 47, and the current tank in-car is showing 50 and chage. Given that late fall and spring are the 'peak MPG time' here in NE FL because we don't need as much A/C or heat, we'll see how that holds up. The TCH didn't hit 'peak MPG' until after 2nd oil change (improved by 2 MPG overall).

Edited December 16, 2015 by ElectricFan69