AWD Hybrid Sedans

[GrySql]

My brother has two VW's now, a Golf TDI and a Passat gas, and had a Jetta TDI. When he first bought the Jetta TDI in 2009 it didn't meet the EPA mpg's, never did, but was a good car until it's untimely demise in a collision.

His new 2013 Golf TDI gets the same mpg's as my FFH, last year we both went on a 2,000 trip together and the cars ended with basically the same MPG's. That was a good test, same loads, same roads and weather.

The differences in the actual vehicles are substantial, his is noisier inside, rides stiff (but he can select the modes), smaller inside, less technological dashboard - and frankly looks like a refrigerator.

 

When we discuss our cars I like to remind him of the net/net of the driving cost, not just the fuel consumption.

I list things like less brake lining wear, 10,000 mile oil changes, cheap oil/filter, 100,000 engine maintenance, fuel cost, additional fluids, size of the cars and the quiet/comfort of the ride because of the wheelbase/suspension and interior appointments.

He lists that he has a Stage 2 Tune on his diesel engine and his car is faster, has adjustable suspension, his cost less to purchase and believes diesel is the future for cars. (It might be if we had European Diesel EPA rules)

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Lolder, those memories do seem to stick forever, thank you for the link.

My Dad (born and raised in Carlstadt, New Jersey) became a Los Angeles Fireman in 1941 (was also exempt after 4 years in the Navy) so I was brought up in the culture, it was natural that I would do the same as he. I am glad I did.

 

 

[Ted Swing]

My brother has two VW's now, a Golf TDI and a Passat gas, and had a Jetta TDI. When he first bought the Jetta TDI in 2009 it didn't meet the EPA mpg's, never did, but was a good car until it's untimely demise in a collision.

His new 2013 Golf TDI gets the same mpg's as my FFH, last year we both went on a 2,000 trip together and the cars ended with basically the same MPG's. That was a good test, same loads, same roads and weather.

The differences in the actual vehicles are substantial, his is noisier inside, rides stiff (but he can select the modes), smaller inside, less technological dashboard - and frankly looks like a refrigerator.

 

When we discuss our cars I like to remind him of the net/net of the driving cost, not just the fuel consumption.

I list things like less brake lining wear, 10,000 mile oil changes, cheap oil/filter, 100,000 engine maintenance, fuel cost, additional fluids, size of the cars and the quiet/comfort of the ride because of the wheelbase/suspension and interior appointments.

He lists that he has a Stage 2 Tune on his diesel engine and his car is faster, has adjustable suspension, his cost less to purchase and believes diesel is the future for cars. (It might be if we had European Diesel EPA rules)

-

Lolder, those memories do seem to stick forever, thank you for the link.

My Dad (born and raised in Carlstadt, New Jersey) became a Los Angeles Fireman in 1941 (was also exempt after 4 years in the Navy) so I was brought up in the culture, it was natural that I would do the same as he. I am glad I did.

 

 

Interesting head-to-head. I think your brother is wrong about diesel. It's a good fuel but, from what I've read, the higher price of diesel in the US comes mostly from the fact that oil refineries in the US are optimized for gasoline because diesel is used less here. If the demand for diesel continues to increase, the price disadvantage compared to gasoline will get even worse in the short term (it takes a lot of time and money to change the oil refineries and supply won't keep pace with demand).

 

The other issue is the electrification of cars, which gives a good alternative to diesel for the purpose of fuel efficiency. I'd be surprised if we're using gasoline or diesel in 30-40 years. I think diesel's market share in the US will continue to grow in the near future, but hybrids, plug-ins, and eventually pure electrics will squeeze out both diesel and gasoline-only cars before diesel can get close to overtaking gasoline.

[corncobs]

... 30-40 years? I would hope it goes faster than that. Once Tesla's GigaFactory is up and running battery technology should become more competitive.

[Ted Swing]

... 30-40 years? I would hope it goes faster than that. Once Tesla's GigaFactory is up and running battery technology should become more competitive.

Hopefully less than that. I'd just rather overestimate and be proved wrong.

[GrySql]

I suppose we're just discussing family sedans here, right?

Let's not forget that bigger cars, trucks, watercraft/ships, tractors and other vehicles are needed in this society.

When they can make an electric 18 wheeler freight hauler that is practical will be the day.

[corncobs]

Those 18 wheelers should / could be replaced by airships like the "Dragon Dream".

On ships they are rediscovering sails as additional power source reducing the amount of oil the big container ships need.

[Texasota]

I suppose we're just discussing family sedans here, right?

Let's not forget that bigger cars, trucks, watercraft/ships, tractors and other vehicles are needed in this society.

When they can make an electric 18 wheeler freight hauler that is practical will be the day.

I'm betting with GrySql on this. There is nothing on the horizon that is going to displace diesel for heavy duty applications anytime soon. The only practical alternative, for some applications, is natural gas. Natural gas is being considered and investigated for trains but they have the luxury of being able to haul with them the very large tanks required for the compressed natural gas. Natural gas is also commonly used in city buses but long haul road buses continue to be dominated by diesel.

 

Diesels started being used in heavy duty applications in the 1920s/1930s and I'm betting diesel will continue to be around for a very long time yet.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Texasota

[ptjones]

Interesting head-to-head. I think your brother is wrong about diesel. It's a good fuel but, from what I've read, the higher price of diesel in the US comes mostly from the fact that oil refineries in the US are optimized for gasoline because diesel is used less here. If the demand for diesel continues to increase, the price disadvantage compared to gasoline will get even worse in the short term (it takes a lot of time and money to change the oil refineries and supply won't keep pace with demand).

 

The other issue is the electrification of cars, which gives a good alternative to diesel for the purpose of fuel efficiency. I'd be surprised if we're using gasoline or diesel in 30-40 years. I think diesel's market share in the US will continue to grow in the near future, but hybrids, plug-ins, and eventually pure electrics will squeeze out both diesel and gasoline-only cars before diesel can get close to overtaking gasoline.

I believe the higher cost of Diesel is from removing the sulfur from it and the demand for it. they are putting more biodiesel in diesel these days which might effect the cost too. :)

 

Paul

[Ted Swing]

I believe the higher cost of Diesel is from removing the sulfur from it and the demand for it. they are putting more biodiesel in diesel these days which might effect the cost too. :)

 

Paul

Those are part of the cost difference, too.

 

http://www.nacsonline.com/YourBusiness/FuelsReports/GasPrices_2013/Pages/Why-Diesel-Costs-More-Than-Gasoline.aspx

 

The section "Strong Diesel Fuel Demand in Other Countries" describes what I was talking about (optimization for gasoline vs. distillate). One of the later sections mention the sulfur issue you describe.