What should we do? Should we trade up for a nicer FFH?

[hybridbear]

I have been following your problems and I hope your new snow queen works out better than blacky. I am really thinking I would not buy another ford personally. I can't afford to trade mine in on another new one and the fact I am still only getting 35 mpg even using non ethanol gasoline is super frustrating. I would love to get a new car but it would not be a ford. This is my first ford since my first vehicle a 64 ford shortbed truck back in high school some 40 years ago. I appreciate all your suggestions concerning my lemon hybridbear very much.

We are frustrated with Ford too and more so frustrated with the dealerships...but there is no other car out there that comes close to what the FFH offers. So, we're taking a chance on another one.

[elle]

Hopefully you will not be disappointed. From what I read here, it seems like the vast majority of problems were with the earliest builds. Mine was early, but aside from being a little lower than average on the fuel economy (as compared to many here) it seems to be a wonderful car. I'm seriously thinking of doing something similar to you next year and trading up to a 2014 when they are on clearance.

[hybridbear]

Hopefully you will not be disappointed. From what I read here, it seems like the vast majority of problems were with the earliest builds. Mine was early, but aside from being a little lower than average on the fuel economy (as compared to many here) it seems to be a wonderful car. I'm seriously thinking of doing something similar to you next year and trading up to a 2014 when they are on clearance.

Thanks Elle! So far so good!

[acdii]

I can say that the difference between my first one and the one I have now is like night and day. I may not have the capacitive touch, wave your hand and turn the lights on overhead console anymore, but at least it doesn't buzz. Aside from the dreaded door trim that pops out, and the flaking paint on the bumper that has been repaired, I have not had any problems with it(hoping the fuel gauge thing this week was a fluke though).

[Aquineas]

I think the FFH looks best in white (and no, mine my wife's isn't white). I would definitely have gone with a white one, but my wife really wanted a "purple" (bordeaux reserve) car. That being said, it may not be long in our possession... Details in another post.

 

Hybrid, how's the new one treating you so far?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Aquineas

[acdii]

Mine is turning white the more we drive it. So is my Flex. Weather has been too crappy to wash it, either way too cold, or sloppy.

[hybridbear]

I think the FFH looks best in white (and no, mine my wife's isn't white). I would definitely have gone with a white one, but my wife really wanted a "purple" (bordeaux reserve) car. That being said, it may not be long in our possession... Details in another post.

 

Hybrid, how's the new one treating you so far?

No issues so far. Sure hope it will be rock solid.

[jsolan]

No issues so far. Sure hope it will be rock solid.

 

Good to know. Has your mileage improved with more miles on it yet or still too early to tell with the weather?

 

Last week I had a casual conversation with my future wife and floated the idea of trading in my '13 for a loaded '14 (or MKZ) with heated steering wheel/cooled seats when the 2015's start rolling out later this year. She was completely ok with it, but we'll see how things go financially this year I guess.

[hybridbear]

Good to know. Has your mileage improved with more miles on it yet or still too early to tell with the weather?

 

Last week I had a casual conversation with my future wife and floated the idea of trading in my '13 for a loaded '14 (or MKZ) with heated steering wheel/cooled seats when the 2015's start rolling out later this year. She was completely ok with it, but we'll see how things go financially this year I guess.

The weather has been so terribly cold that it's hard to say. I'm sure it will improve. We didn't have a very harsh winter last year compared to what we've had so far this year as far as cold temps, last winter was just extremely long and the cold/snow lingered into mid-May. Since the FFH was brand new last December, I also wasn't as in tune to how it operates as I am now. When I look back at our Fuelly tanks from last winter, excluding our road trip in January, we averaged just under 40 MPG. Since the weather didn't warm up until mid-May we continued to see only 40 MPG through April. My goal was to keep this winter above 40 MPG overall for the entire winter, but this extreme cold is getting in the way. The last tank was only 36 MPG. The real comparison will be summer weather MPG. Looking back at some notes i made with the black FFH when it was new on trips to Owatonna, it appears that this car does about 1 MPG worse than that one. I guess that is the 18 inch tire penalty...

[Texasota]

Looking back at some notes i made with the black FFH when it was new on trips to Owatonna, it appears that this car does about 1 MPG worse than that one. I guess that is the 18 inch tire penalty...

 

Forgive me if this has been discussed before (I did try some searches looking for the answer). I'm curious why the 18" wheels/tires cause an a MPG penalty? Isn't the overall diameter about the same as the 17" wheel/tires? Is it due to increased weight?

[acdii]

 

Forgive me if this has been discussed before (I did try some searches looking for the answer). I'm curious why the 18" wheels/tires cause an a MPG penalty? Isn't the overall diameter about the same as the 17" wheel/tires? Is it due to increased weight?

Two factors, although outside diameter is virtually the same, the wheel itself has more mass, and second, types of tires differ too. There are many more options for Low Rolling Resistance(LRR) tires in the 17" size, than in the 18" size. The Goodyears on the FFH are claimed to be LRR, but there is no documentation to back it up, not even from Goodyear(I know I emailed them last year). These both impact MPG a slight amount. Michelin makes fantastic LRR tires, just not in the size we need for the 18's.

 

However, replacing the 18's with 17's and true LRR tires is not an economic solution, you will never make up the cost difference with MPG savings, since we are only talking about a 1-3 MPG difference.

 

 

 

The weather has been so terribly cold that it's hard to say. I'm sure it will improve. We didn't have a very harsh winter last year compared to what we've had so far this year as far as cold temps, last winter was just extremely long and the cold/snow lingered into mid-May. Since the FFH was brand new last December, I also wasn't as in tune to how it operates as I am now. When I look back at our Fuelly tanks from last winter, excluding our road trip in January, we averaged just under 40 MPG. Since the weather didn't warm up until mid-May we continued to see only 40 MPG through April. My goal was to keep this winter above 40 MPG overall for the entire winter, but this extreme cold is getting in the way. The last tank was only 36 MPG. The real comparison will be summer weather MPG. Looking back at some notes i made with the black FFH when it was new on trips to Owatonna, it appears that this car does about 1 MPG worse than that one. I guess that is the 18 inch tire penalty...

You're doing pretty good, right where I would expect it to be. These sub-zero days really hurt all cars MPG, so getting 36 is very acceptable in my book.

[hybridbear]

Update on our old black FFH: It has been just about 50 days now. It is still sitting on the dealer lot. They gave us $22,982 as a trade-in value. They originally listed our car for $24,979. Now they lowered the price to $23,979. I wonder at what price it will sell... Here is our window sticker for reference of features.

 

They also have another used 2013 FFH for sale now. This one only has 7500 miles, has slightly more features than ours and they have it listed for $24,997...

Here is its window sticker. This car was built 9/13/2012!! It's a really old FFH!! I wonder where it came from...they don't have any pictures online yet, hopefully they will soon. A BOF member said that a local dealer was selling a Lemon Law Buyback FFH in his area which he was considering. Perhaps that is the story of this black one too...

Edited January 14, 2014 by hybridbear

[Texasota]

There are many more options for Low Rolling Resistance(LRR) tires in the 17" size, than in the 18" size. The Goodyears on the FFH are claimed to be LRR, but there is no documentation to back it up, not even from Goodyear(I know I emailed them last year). These both impact MPG a slight amount. Michelin makes fantastic LRR tires, just not in the size we need for the 18's.

Thank you. I neglected to consider that the actual tire manufacturer or tire model would be different between the 17s and 18s. I'm leaning toward ordering a FFH S and I beleive the 17 wheels are standard with no optional choices. Guess that makes things easy.

[hybridbear]

Our old black FFH is still on their lot. They still have it listed for $1k more than they gave us in trade, I'd guess that they'll have to knock another $500 off to sell it. They also have another 2013 FFH for sale now as well, about the same miles and a few more features and they want $2k more than our old one. Window stickers aren't working right now to see all the features of the white one they have for sale now. Etis indicates that it was built 11/8/12, so it's an old one too.

 

Overall, I think we made out pretty well and the dealer didn't make much money (if any) off us...

 

They sold us the new white FFH at invoice price so let's say they made $1000 there. In the end they'll probably only end up selling our black FFH for $500 more than they gave us as trade-in price. They're probably making a small amount on our loan, but not a whole lot. Even if we don't make any extra payments we will only pay a total of $470 in interest, I can't imagine that they get much more than $250 in profit on our loan. On the white FFH they had to fix the paint bubble, which they said they couldn't submit to Ford because Ford would just say that the paint bubbles happened while the vehicle was on their lot and wasn't a factory defect. So between repainting the trunk lid and the 4 badges they bought and installed because of their mistakes that cost them about $500. Then the warranty they gave us for their troubles lists at $1570 on Flood Ford's website. In addition, the white FFH we bought had been sitting on their lot for at least a couple months so they were paying storage fees on it that whole time. So it appears that they likely lost money on our transaction...not to mention the labor cost of the time that was spent by multiple dealer employees cleaning up the mistakes they made...

[vangonebuy]

HB,

Bet your lovin the backup cam and other features your upgrade gave you.

[hybridbear]

HB,

Bet your lovin the backup cam and other features your upgrade gave you.

We absolutely are!!

[hybridbear]

They now have it listed for $22,979, this is less than the $22,982 that they gave us for a trade-in value!!! :drop:

[acdii]

Hmmm I have relatives up there...... Nah that car has history, can't in a sane mind do that. I happen to like those relatives.

[hybridbear]

Hmmm I have relatives up there...... Nah that car has history, can't in a sane mind do that. I happen to like those relatives.

We do know that it gets great gas mileage!

[acdii]

We do know that it gets great gas mileage!

There is that!

[hybridbear]

It is no longer listed on their website. I wish there was a way to track it by its VIN. Does anyone know of a way to do that?

[kuzzi]

Call your local police department.