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FFH Warm Up Stages

Fusion Hybrid Warm Up Period Efficient Operation

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64 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:55 PM

I used to do this, driving away from my driveway would deplete the pack in 5 seconds, and the car was sluggish since as pointed out, no torque being applied by the ICE. Now that I have been remote starting every morning, I no longer need to as the ICE is warmed up and the battery fully charged by the time I pull out of my drive. 


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#42 OFFLINE   corncobs

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:27 AM

There's no change in quietness. You are just tricking the car into being more efficient.


Really? I did it a few times just to check it out months ago and I could swear that the engines revs are definitely higher.

Edited by corncobs, 21 December 2013 - 01:27 AM.

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#43 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:45 AM

Really? I did it a few times just to check it out months ago and I could swear that the engines revs are definitely higher.

When in L the revs are higher, but you only shift to L momentarily and then back to D. As soon as you hear the revs start to increase you shift back to D. Once you're back in the D the revs are normal.


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#44 OFFLINE   snowmonster

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:26 PM

HB - I really appreciate everything you're doing here. I really think Ford should include a publication to help their owners extract the most from this car.

I got my FFH essentially 8 days ago and it's still been in the 20's and 30's here in Indiana. I've already had one drive of 47 mpg in city driving and I credit that to what I've learned here on the forum. Most of my drives have been around 39 mpg or better except some of the early AM/cold engine ones. I think I'm on schedule to get at least 500 miles on my first tank of gas and that includes the first few days of having no idea how to maximize mpg's other than by driving slowly (until I found these forums)

I just ran across the D-L-D trick and will have to try it out starting tomorrow. Just for clarification, do I shift into L once I start moving forward and then back to D as soon as I hear a surge in revs? Does this take about 5 seconds, 10 seconds, etc?

Thanks again!
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#45 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

HB - I really appreciate everything you're doing here. I really think Ford should include a publication to help their owners extract the most from this car.
I just ran across the D-L-D trick and will have to try it out starting tomorrow. Just for clarification, do I shift into L once I start moving forward and then back to D as soon as I hear a surge in revs? Does this take about 5 seconds, 10 seconds, etc?

Thanks again!

Welcome & congrats on your car. I'm glad to share knowledge and am glad to hear that you have found the info useful.

I usually shift to L right after the ICE kicks on the first time. It takes about 1-2 seconds for the sound of the ICE to change in most cases.
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#46 OFFLINE   snowmonster

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

Couldn't wait until AM, just went out and drove around the block and there was a noticeable change/surge in revs in L that you just can't miss once you start accelerating with the ICE. It was great to not have the engine constantly on once I kicked it back into D.

Thanks again. Keep it up!


Edited by snowmonster, 27 March 2014 - 07:00 AM.

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#47 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:44 PM

HB, great thread.  I have been reading this over the months, and I want to make some observations.  While I agree the DLD trick does work, I accidentally figured this out LOL, I also KNOW that remote starting the car improves the mileage drastically.  I know what you are saying here, and what Loder says, but I have been doing this, when it is cold, for a year now.  There is no doubt in my mind that it makes a huge difference for me and my conditions.  I will ask anyone to just go out and put their hand over the exhaust pipe while the ICE is running in remote start and tell me it is burning a lot of fuel.  A Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine is pushing more exhaust gas that the Fusion is, and the bonus is you can set the length of time to run (I believe the min is 3 or 5 minutes) and drive away without all of the EPA programming and a full battery.

 

Say what you will, I think everyone should at least try to prestart their car for short hops or commutes, give it a fair trial.  I think they will see the improvements I have.

 

My Post Office is 2 miles away.  Without remote start (winter) 29 MPG, with remote start either ice won't start (infinity) or 80 to 100 MPG.  Just sayin'  :)  Heading South on I25 I will see 4 to 5 MPG improvement in a 70 mile commute ..... 

 

Just my .02


Edited by rjent, 26 March 2014 - 09:46 PM.


#48 OFFLINE   snowmonster

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 06:30 AM

What a great trick!

 

My 2.6 mile AM drive to drop my daughter off at her school and then go to work normally yields about 25 to 30 mpg.  With the same weather conditions this AM, I got 50.6 with the engine running a whole lot less!

 

DLD First Drive

 


Edited by snowmonster, 27 March 2014 - 07:00 AM.

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#49 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:41 AM

HB, great thread.  I have been reading this over the months, and I want to make some observations.  While I agree the DLD trick does work, I accidentally figured this out LOL, I also KNOW that remote starting the car improves the mileage drastically.  I know what you are saying here, and what Loder says, but I have been doing this, when it is cold, for a year now.  There is no doubt in my mind that it makes a huge difference for me and my conditions.  I will ask anyone to just go out and put their hand over the exhaust pipe while the ICE is running in remote start and tell me it is burning a lot of fuel.  A Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine is pushing more exhaust gas that the Fusion is, and the bonus is you can set the length of time to run (I believe the min is 3 or 5 minutes) and drive away without all of the EPA programming and a full battery.

 

Say what you will, I think everyone should at least try to prestart their car for short hops or commutes, give it a fair trial.  I think they will see the improvements I have.

 

My Post Office is 2 miles away.  Without remote start (winter) 29 MPG, with remote start either ice won't start (infinity) or 80 to 100 MPG.  Just sayin'  :)  Heading South on I25 I will see 4 to 5 MPG improvement in a 70 mile commute ..... 

 

Just my .02

That's because gas burned during remote start is counted nowhere...it isn't counted in your trip summary and it isn't counted in Trip 1 or Trip 2...that's why it gives the illusion of improving fuel economy.


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#50 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:29 PM

I understand the logic, but I agree to disagree.  I keep logs on every fill up and mileage.  I don't see a drop or gain in MPG on a tank full using remote over cold start and I have done it both ways with purpose.  The minuscule amount of gas used is less, IMHO than the gas used to drive while road warming the engine.  Also, (I can't prove this yet as I am working with my Ford tech) but the fuel used during remote start IS recorded and calculated in the over all mileage, it is just so small, it doesn't show.  You guys can say what you will, but I am convinced it works.    I have literally walked out in sub 30* weather and "remote" started standing next to it and let it run until it shuts off.  I am telling you, there is no significant fuel burn, there can't be.  I think it works because it runs through the three stages without a load on the engine.  That engine is so efficient, particularly not under load (except charging the battery for a short time), the fuel burn is negligible.  It doesn't run very long at all, most of the time less than the allotted time for warm up.  Is the water up to 180*? No, it doesn't have to be.  You have to make sure you aren't heating the seats and you are not running the compressor (covered in other threads), but with that said....

 

Think about it, do you really think, as anal as Ford is being with the software and the EPA, if remote start was an issue of lost efficiency, they would even allow it .... I rest my case LOL


Edited by rjent, 31 March 2014 - 09:08 AM.

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#51 OFFLINE   NewHiTi21

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 09:52 PM

Easy way to prove it. Get in the car and start (tap the gas pedal to get the engine to start) it instead of using the remote. Then you will see how much fuel is being wasted. It is still not as bad as a non hybrid at least the battery is charging while it warms up but don't think for a second it is not using any fuel.

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#52 OFFLINE   GrySql

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 10:31 PM

:lurk:

 

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#53 OFFLINE   rjent

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:40 AM

Yup, this could go on for ever.  :love_shower: 

 

I think if your over all mileage is where you want it to be, and you are saving gas at the pump over your last vehicle, what difference does it make ... :bliss:

:lurk:

 

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#54 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:15 AM

 

Think about it, do you really think, as anal as Ford is being with the software and the EPA, if remote start was an issue of lost efficiency, they would even allow it .... I rest my case LOL

 

The EPA doesn't consider remote start in any of it's tests, so Ford doesn't give a hoot how much fuel is burned during remote start.


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#55 OFFLINE   jsolan

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:06 AM

Remote start absolutely burns fuel that is not tracked by the computer.  I've gone through as much as 1.5-2 gallons over the course of a tank using remote start.  I always reset my trip 2 when I fill up and have put in as much as 11 gallons when the computer told me I've only burned 9.  After taking out a max of .5 gallon that it's off when I don't use remote start, that leaves at least 1.5 burned from keeping myself warm.  Usually it's not that high, but that particular tank was 2 straight weeks of no highs over 20 degrees so my remote start ran longer and more often.  I still managed 33 mpg overall according the the pump, but since the computer only counts mpg for driving miles, it claimed I got a little over 40 mpg.

Now that I don't need remote start as much anymore, the computer's gallons used are falling back in line with the amount I pump in.

 

While I understand what you're saying with the warm up stages, it all depends on just how long you let it idle.  It might/probably would improve overall mileage if you only let it warm up enough to work it's way through the warm up stages, but it definitely hurts overall mileage if you let it actually warm up the inside of the vehicle.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  I've never seen a 30+ mpg tank on any car or truck I've ever had, so to see this one do it in the dead of winter while keeping me comfortable is incredible.

 

I understand the logic, but I agree to disagree.  I keep logs on every fill up and mileage.  I don't see a drop or gain in MPG on a tank full using remote over cold start and I have done it both ways with purpose.  The minuscule amount of gas used is less, IMHO than the gas used to drive while road warming the engine.  Also, (I can't prove this yet as I am working with my Ford tech) but the fuel used during remote start IS recorded and calculated in the over all milage, it is just so small, it doesn't show.  You guys can say what you will, but I am convinced it works.    I have literally walked out in sub 30* weather and "remote" started standing next to it and let it run until it shuts off.  I am telling you, there is no significant fuel burn, there can't be.  I think it works because it runs through the three stages without a load on the engine.  That engine is so efficient, particularly not under load (except charging the battery for a short time), the fuel burn is negligible.  It doesn't run very long at all, most of the time less than the allotted time for warm up.  Is the water up to 180*? No, it doesn't have to be.  You have to make sure you aren't heating the seats and you are not running the compressor (covered in other threads), but with that said....

 

Think about it, do you really think, as anal as Ford is being with the software and the EPA, if remote start was an issue of lost efficiency, they would even allow it .... I rest my case LOL



#56 OFFLINE   acdii

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 10:20 AM

In a way remote start will improve fuel economy since you are starting out with a warmed up ICE, full battery, AND heat inside the car. Just don't go by the trip counters, do the math yourself. The ICE will burn more fuel when everything is cold while driving, than it will burn warming up by remote since it has to do triple duty, charge the pack, propel the car, and provide heat.  How much of a gain all depends on how long it runs during a remote start. It is set to 10 minutes by default, in my case I usually am in it and driving away in around 5 minutes, just enough to charge the pack and warm it up. By rough estimates its about 2 MPG less than your trip summary shows when using RS. It is still a gain, but not as much as the TS would have you believe.


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#57 OFFLINE   Eric.C.Boston

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:07 PM

Hello,

 

When I first got my 2015 FFH I noticed the car would skip Stage 0 and go right into Stage 1A in the morning. It would do Stage 0 in the evening after sitting 9 hours. Stage 0 returned in the morning with warmer temperatures. It appears below a certain outdoor temperature (30 degrees F?), or coolant temperature, the ICE will immediately come on when the Start Button is pressed.

 

73 Eric



#58 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 09:35 AM

Something I haven't seen covered.. What is "full" warmup temp to the point where if needed the cooling fans will come on and thermostat opens?

Grille sutters begin opening once the ICE coolant temp exceeds about 200 F. Cooling fans won't come on until the ICE temp exceeds 220 F. I doubt this would ever happen unless you're driving up a mountain with grille blocking.

 

Hello,

 

When I first got my 2015 FFH I noticed the car would skip Stage 0 and go right into Stage 1A in the morning. It would do Stage 0 in the evening after sitting 9 hours. Stage 0 returned in the morning with warmer temperatures. It appears below a certain outdoor temperature (30 degrees F?), or coolant temperature, the ICE will immediately come on when the Start Button is pressed.

 

73 Eric

Is this the case for all 2015+ FFHs?


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#59 OFFLINE   BoatDrinksQ5

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 02:44 PM

My 2015 warmup appears heavily dictated by HVAC/Temperature settings - so my guess is likely that is what is driving the that Stage0 vs 1a difference.

 

HOwever I seem to recall when it was colder that the engine almost immediately started up (hvac off) and I hadn't touched the gas.... (don't recall SOC, but i think it was above 15 or 20%).   I think in some cases Ford programmed things to be a bit predictive based on temperatures and charge...etc.

 

Still new <5k mi... so not so sure.   Not looking forward to a MN winter... haha


Edited by BoatDrinksQ5, 27 October 2015 - 02:46 PM.


#60 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 04:30 PM

My 2015 warmup appears heavily dictated by HVAC/Temperature settings - so my guess is likely that is what is driving the that Stage0 vs 1a difference.

 

HOwever I seem to recall when it was colder that the engine almost immediately started up (hvac off) and I hadn't touched the gas.... (don't recall SOC, but i think it was above 15 or 20%).   I think in some cases Ford programmed things to be a bit predictive based on temperatures and charge...etc.

 

Still new <5k mi... so not so sure.   Not looking forward to a MN winter... haha

What gauge were you looking at to come up with 15-20% SOC?  With the ScanGauge II the lowest I've seen is 29% and the ICE barely started. :drop:  

 

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