Throttle body DTC??

[GrySql]

To make a short story long....

I went to my great Dealer today to get my axle Thrust Washers installed for the 'cracking' repair.

I added a VHR that contained Dash Warnings my car has intermittently, regarding traction control and brakes. To that I threw in TSB 13-6-22 about check engine and various DTC warnings. Plus an oil/filer change and tire rotation.

We then moseyed over to the Dealers little cafe and had our free breakfast, but got bored eventually.

So, my great Dealer gave us an Enterprise '13 Ford Focus (Ugh!) to drive around during the day while they fixed the car. We soon tired of that funky Focus and got back to the Dealer about 2:30pm and I checked in with my great Service Advisor to find the Thrust Washers were in place and repair done, the oil changed* and tires rotated*. (*A free Dealer service perk, what a great Dealer)

 

That's when the happy faces stopped.

My dash warnings on the VHR showed a problem with the brake system getting an consistent error code. The Hybrid brake/eCVT Specialist went through the system and declared it working properly, except for the input DTC from the ICE. The car was moved over to another Service Bay (they have 50+ bays) and the 'Driveability' Specialist was told to find out why the brakes were getting a DTC from the ICE.

There is such a thing as a 'Diagnostic Tree' (flow chart) that the Specialist follows and the Throttle Body sensor was sending codes to the brakes telling them something was wrong. The Specialist went down the Yes/No chart and ended up back where it started, no answer. He did this carefully 3 times, with another helper assisting, no joy.

At this point the only thing that is allowed to be done is: Call THE FORD HELP LINE.

It is now 4:30pm and we're getting cranky.

Nothing can be done now, the Service Adviser cannot release the car to me because of the VHR's warning about the brakes.

 

So, top this, we get another Enterprise rental car, I refuse the Ford Focus and end up with a '12 Fusion SE. That is two free rental cars in one day!

Now, I live 75 miles from my GREAT Dealer and I mention that I am not happy paying for gas for the rental car because my car can't be repaired.

Absolutely, my great Service Advisor says "don't worry about a thing, the car & gas are on us" - amazing, simply amazing.

 

Now we're home, enjoyed driving the '12 Fusion and, hopefully, sometime tomorrow my car will be fixed.

I can then go back on Wednesday and get it because if I don't it is the 4th of July weekend and I won't have it for a week.

=

BTW, a FFH Forum member stopped by the Dealership (his great Dealer too) this morning and we swapped stories about our cars, it was a pleasure.

=

But this makes me wonder, there are times when the car feels like it's dragging an anchor and the mpg's are low, like a steady 45 mph and getting 10mpg's.

Could the brakes be affecting performance and causing something negative to happen?

The car has had these brake warnings since the first month I owned it, a Dealer did a 'Hard System Reset' to clear the Dash Warnings then. I've had several since then that clear themselves after a re-start, with the last one happening a couple weeks ago.

Strange...

 

[murphy]

If the brakes are dragging that will definitely have an impact on mileage.

 

I hope that you already know this but the parking brake must be off when a VHR is run or it will show a problem with the brakes. They are apparently reporting the state of the red brake light on the dash.

[hybridbear]

Glad you have such a great dealer. When I brought up the gas issue to mine when our car spend more than a week at the dealer I got a blank look and no reply. I hope they solve the issues with your car soon so you can get back to enjoying it :)

[GrySql]

If the brakes are dragging that will definitely have an impact on mileage.

 

I hope that you already know this but the parking brake must be off when a VHR is run or it will show a problem with the brakes. They are apparently reporting the state of the red brake light on the dash.

Aye, I explained that poorly.

I did not have the parking brake engaged, the Dash Warning came on while driving (as it's done each time it happens) and I pulled over, put it in Park and sent the VHR.

 

Currently, the Throttle Body DTC is showing when the Dealer's computer is connected, my printed out VHR just lead them to look for the trouble.

When I left yesterday the TB DTC was a continuous action signal to the ABS braking system, which is not correct. (Without any vehicle Dash Warnings showing)

Traction Control evidently uses ABS and ICE management to control wheel spin. Somewhere in that software there is a glitch.

My Dealer's hybrid tech's have not seen this particular fault before, they are still waiting for Ford Engineering to call them.

[kuzzi]

I was reading about TC yesterday and it uses the brakes to slow down a spinning wheel so that engine power will not preferentially go to the path of least resistance (the spinning wheel) and instead provide some power to the non spinning wheel. It does this when it senses abnormal speed in one wheel or the other. Does each wheel have a velocity sensor and could one be malfunctioning?

[kuzzi]

Reading more just now and another TC method is to close the throttle reducing the torque available at all wheels, maybe this is where the TB issue is coming from.......

[lolder]

I was reading about TC yesterday and it uses the brakes to slow down a spinning wheel so that engine power will not preferentially go to the path of least resistance (the spinning wheel) and instead provide some power to the non spinning wheel. It does this when it senses abnormal speed in one wheel or the other. Does each wheel have a velocity sensor and could one be malfunctioning?

Yes, all wheels have velocity sensors. Stability systems vary and may use throttle controls and/or individual wheel braking.

[GrySql]

The Dealer Tech and Ford Engineering talked and the Tech was told to: Check everything!

Today every Module in the car was supposed to have been tested and if no component irregularities are found they are going to to a 'Hard System Reset' - for the second time in the cars short life.

After the Reset the TB will be tested again, and maybe it will play nice - if not, I keep the rental for another week.

If testing shows all is well I get the car back tomorrow to do what Ford Engineering euphemistically calls 'customer field testing', gotta love it.

 

At least I'll have the Thrust Washers installed for the cracking fix, oil changed and tires rotated. They might even put a new battery in it for the BS issue.

Plus, I got to drive a '13 Focus (yuk) and a '12 Fusion (nice). BTW, the '12 Fusion sure looks small in my garage compared to my '13.

 

I am trying to keep any negative thoughts at bay, I really do like the way this car looks and drives.

OTOH, I have never owned a new car that required this much of my time & attention, on so many levels - some good, some not so much.

[GrySql]

The car is still there being analyzed (anal eyesed?), the Service Dept is closed tomorrow so I'm not picking it today or tomorrow.

Just waiting for an update.

Meanwhile am liking this '12 Fusion and the huge trunk - my wife wants to go to Home Depot and buy plants! :drop:

[thavil]

The Dealer Tech and Ford Engineering talked and the Tech was told to: Check everything!

Today every Module in the car was supposed to have been tested and if no component irregularities are found they are going to to a 'Hard System Reset' - for the second time in the cars short life.

After the Reset the TB will be tested again, and maybe it will play nice - if not, I keep the rental for another week.

If testing shows all is well I get the car back tomorrow to do what Ford Engineering euphemistically calls 'customer field testing', gotta love it.

 

At least I'll have the Thrust Washers installed for the cracking fix, oil changed and tires rotated. They might even put a new battery in it for the BS issue.

Plus, I got to drive a '13 Focus (yuk) and a '12 Fusion (nice). BTW, the '12 Fusion sure looks small in my garage compared to my '13.

 

I am trying to keep any negative thoughts at bay, I really do like the way this car looks and drives.

OTOH, I have never owned a new car that required this much of my time & attention, on so many levels - some good, some not so much.

 

It really sucks that you are going through so many problems. I am lucky so far that I haven't seen any issues with my job 1 build. I did go through similar issues you are experiencing with the Cadillac CTS I had prior to my FFH. Beautiful car but the first run of the 2nd gen CTS had many issues and my car had them all. Good luck and I hope everything turns out great for you!

[GrySql]

I am told that they did a 'software calibration', cleared the offending Module and are keeping it until Friday to monitor the Battery Saver issue.

It should be ready on Friday for pick up.

 

Haha, went to Home Depot in the rental car and made the wife happy buying potting soil and flowers. :)

[GrySql]

I picked my car up today, the Module tests did not provide any clue as to why it was showing a TB error, so they did a System Re-set (basically a Ctrl-Alt-Delete) and that cleared it.

The Tech also installed TSB 13-6-23 calibration for "Cold Weather Charging Improvements". It's too soon to know what difference any of this will make.

 

The "Cracking, Ping Pong noise" Thrust Washer repair was done, the car rides quiet now.

 

I am so very happy to have my comfy 'Starship' back again, the '12 Fusion SEL 3.0L Loaner was nice but my '13 FFH is an amazing upgrade in so many ways that I am astonished.

What a wonderful car to drive!

I may have just named it...

[corncobs]

Hopefully it stays this way and the TSB will return good results. I'm just not sure if you can see a difference being in SoCal ;-))

[GrySql]

Anything done that might improve the way this car charges either of the batteries is fine with me.

 

I just didn't realize how much I missed my car and am happy it's home. My wife said the same when we got in for the drive home 'ahhh, this feels good'.

[acdii]

 

I am so very happy to have my comfy 'Starship' back again,

Perfect!

 

This is the reason I decided to upgrade from the 10 to the 13, after having the other one, the 10 just felt small and dated. So glad I did too.