Disappointing first fill up

[CCalvinN]

I've finally put the first tank of fuel into Ginger. Technically it's her second tank, but I didn't have the trip odometer set for her first tank.

 

On this tank I drove 311 miles and put in 10.89 gallons for a mileage of 28.56 mpg.

 

Ouch.

 

A bit on how I drive Ginger. I drive roughly 50 miles to work and the same back home. I utilize the remote start for about 10 minutes at home, but not at work (the range of the remote only extends so far). I also drive Ginger about a quarter mile for lunch and eat while idling her. About 10 of those 50 miles are city stop and go driving while the remainder is 60 mph two lane highway. There are plenty of curves and hills and even a stoplight or two on the highway.

 

Ginger, it seems, is quite the little liar. The lowest trip mileage she's shown me is 34 mpg. The highest was 42 mpg. Her 'life' mpg was showing 35.6 mpg when I filled up. I had re-set her lifetime mileage after my first fill up so that should have been representing this tank and this tank only.

 

I certainly didn't expect to get the 41 mpg that was listed on her window sticker. At least not in the winter, and not without adding a few of the 'hypermileing' tricks (Right now I'm just driving her like any other car and letting her do her thing). But I was hoping that she'd be at least equal to Fiona. Fiona was my 2012 Ford Focus that Ginger replaced. Fiona was getting 32-34 mpg in the winter and 37-40 mpg in the summer.

 

28.56

 

I don't have a question or anything... just sharing my disappointment.

[acdii]

Remote start eats up fuel that is not recorded. 10 minutes remote start 5 days a week equates to nearly an hour of the ICE running, which can easily reduce your tank MPG to what you see. I experimented with it last year and it used at least 2 gallons of gas just for remote start each tank.

[Waldo]

Yes, remote start will make anyone a liar.

 

I let my FFH idle in the driveway for about 5 minutes the other day (with the iginition on, not remote start, so it was counted in my trip mpg). I then drove to work on my usual commute. It was about 5F and my trip was about 30mpg. I was regularly getting over 50mpg on the same commute in the summer.

 

So don't despair, it will get much, much better.

[dysert]

The cold is nasty too. In the summer I was getting about 44mpg. During the winter it's gone as low as 33. Yet one more reason to look forward to summer's arrival!

[lolder]

One fill-up is not enough to be accurate because of the variation of fuel pump shutoff Ten fill ups are needed. The car computer readout is generally about 4% high on mpg but very accurate. Cold winter weather can cause a 15 mpg hit on economy.

[Easy Rider]

 

I don't have a question or anything... just sharing my disappointment.

 

Somewhat low results should have been expected when it is cold out AND you use the engine as a matter of comfort and convenience instead of for propulsion.......that is, remote start and keeping it "running" while eating lunch.

 

A return to warmer weather should make for a dramatic increase......but I have a hard time getting much over 35 because I'm not obsessed with mileage and just drive it.

[md13ffhguy]

Your dash mpg will almost always be a little optimistic, compared with your manual calculations, but it will give you a better idea of your actual driving efficiency during times when you're using remote start, since your dash numbers aren't affected by the remote start events. Long sentence, I know. I hope it makes sense to you, though.

 

As far as cold goes, I just had my worst tank ever in the 64 I've recorded. Single digits are a killer.

 

Your quarter mile trip to lunch and eating while idling is definitely costing you quite a bit of efficiency, too. Remember, mpg is 0 when burning gas while not moving. You can't change that math.

[CCalvinN]

Remote start eats up fuel that is not recorded. 10 minutes remote start 5 days a week equates to nearly an hour of the ICE running, which can easily reduce your tank MPG to what you see. I experimented with it last year and it used at least 2 gallons of gas just for remote start each tank.

 

I hadn't considered that the computer doesn't compute the remote start fuel used. I imagine that must be the major contributor to the difference between the reported and actual mpg.

 

 

The cold is nasty too. In the summer I was getting about 44mpg. During the winter it's gone as low as 33. Yet one more reason to look forward to summer's arrival!

 

I did expect a drop in the winter. My expectation was the drop to be similar to my previous car... down to around 32-34 mpg. Not down to 28.

 

 

One fill-up is not enough to be accurate because of the variation of fuel pump shutoff Ten fill ups are needed. The car computer readout is generally about 4% high on mpg but very accurate. Cold winter weather can cause a 15 mpg hit on economy.

 

I can appreciate that filling up this car may be different than my previous cars. But I wouldn't expect a nearly 20% difference between reported and actual mileage to be from pump variance.

 

 

 

Somewhat low results should have been expected when it is cold out AND you use the engine as a matter of comfort and convenience instead of for propulsion.......that is, remote start and keeping it "running" while eating lunch.

 

A return to warmer weather should make for a dramatic increase......but I have a hard time getting much over 35 because I'm not obsessed with mileage and just drive it.

 

I'm not disappointed in the low result itself. I am disappointed in just how low the result is. I've always utilized the engine for comfort and convenience in addition to propulsion (explained more below), so I didn't expect 41 mpg. But 28? That's below what I was expecting.

 

 

Your dash mpg will almost always be a little optimistic, compared with your manual calculations, but it will give you a better idea of your actual driving efficiency during times when you're using remote start, since your dash numbers aren't affected by the remote start events. Long sentence, I know. I hope it makes sense to you, though.

 

As far as cold goes, I just had my worst tank ever in the 64 I've recorded. Single digits are a killer.

 

Your quarter mile trip to lunch and eating while idling is definitely costing you quite a bit of efficiency, too. Remember, mpg is 0 when burning gas while not moving. You can't change that math.

 

Oh yes, I am so happy with all the tools the car offers to monitor fuel efficiency while driving. Right now I'm still figuring them all out and using them to monitor how my normal driving habits affect mileage. Eventually I'll use them to improve my driving. I am already letting the brake coach do it's job. The first few days I was happy to get 88% on normal stops. Now I'm disappointed to get 99%!

 

 

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

I guess my frustration is more than the car (on it's first tank) didn't meet my expectations. I didn't go into this with my eyes shut and my dreams high... I expected to get what I was getting with my previous car. The Focus I was driving was rated for 28/37. The vast majority of my driving is on the highway so in the summer I was exceeding that... getting between 38 and 40mpg per tank. In the winter I was down to between 32 and 34. With the FFH I was expecting to meet those same numbers; 32-34. If I got more than that, I'd be happy. I got less, so I'm disappointed.

 

And it's not as though I got those mileage numbers from the interwebs or personal stories... Ford and the EPA told me that this car with it's additional 1000 pounds would exceed the mileage of my previous car. The only variation between how I drive this car and how I drove my previous car is the remote start. And even that's not a big difference. In cold weather like this I would often go out and start up my previous car and let it idle/warm-up for 10 or 15 minutes before going to work. Now instead of that being 'often' it's 'every time'. The idling at lunch? I already did that, so that was built into the 32-34 mpg.

 

From reading about everybody's experiences here, I can see that this car is capable of getting far more than I'll ever expect to get myself. Seeing people getting upper 40s and 50s mpg gives me hope that I should be able to get upper 30s or low 40s in the summer.

 

 

TLDR? My disappointment stems from not getting the 32-34 mpg I was getting on a car that had lower listed mileage when driving and treating the cars in the same manner. It's NOT from not getting mileage in the 41-47 mpg range.

[lolder]

The difference in mileage between a hybrid and non-hybrid of the same model ( Fusion ) will decrease to only about 10-15% at cold temperatures and sustained high speeds which is the difference in the efficiency of the Atkinson ICE. It is certainly conceivable that the lighter non-hybrid Focus could get better mileage in those circumstances. The real hit is remote starting and warm up. Don't worry about it and enjoy the winter comfort. Pray for Spring or move to Florida.

Edited February 19, 2015 by lolder

[Hybrider]

... Remember, mpg is 0 when burning gas while not moving. You can't change that math.

 

Which is what is so frickin' cool to me about the FFH. That is, when I'm stopped, I'm burning absolutely zero gas. I don't even mind much stopping at red lights anymore because of that. I can even stop and dink with the nav, or just try to figure out what on earth it is that I am trying to do in life, and while I'm stopped, I don't have any worries about being wasteful, because I am burning no gas whatsoever. :bliss:

[nv rick]

 

Which is what is so frickin' cool to me about the FFH. That is, when I'm stopped, I'm burning absolutely zero gas. I don't even mind much stopping at red lights anymore because of that. I can even stop and dink with the nav, or just try to figure out what on earth it is that I am trying to do in life, and while I'm stopped, I don't have any worries about being wasteful, because I am burning no gas whatsoever. :bliss:

I'm sure that Tony will agree with me. The red light sequence in Las Vegas is insane. Get to an intersection just when the light turns red; wait for cross traffic to make turns on green arrow; wait for cross traffic to get green light; wait for on-coming traffic to get green arrow; wait for your direction to get green arrow; then, if you're still awake, you get the green light. This insanity is one of the reasons we moved to Pahrump (total of three traffic lights).

Now when we go to Vegas, I remain much more sedate when taking a nap waiting for a green light, knowing that my mpg isn't going into negative numbers. My previous two MKS's would average about 25mpg until I went into Vegas. When we would leave, the mpg would drop down to 20 or 21 mpg. Waiting at the lights, you could actually watch as the trip mpg dropped one or two tenths. I swear that Vegas only recruits traffic engineers from the bottom tenth of graduating classes.

[TonyHzNV]

+1 on that, Rick! It sucks, doesn't it?!

Edited February 20, 2015 by TonyHzNV

[corncobs]

+1 on that, Rick! It sucks, doesn't it?!

but at least not your gas! :)

[acdii]

I'm sure that Tony will agree with me. The red light sequence in Las Vegas is insane. Get to an intersection just when the light turns red; wait for cross traffic to make turns on green arrow; wait for cross traffic to get green light; wait for on-coming traffic to get green arrow; wait for your direction to get green arrow; then, if you're still awake, you get the green light. This insanity is one of the reasons we moved to Pahrump (total of three traffic lights).

Now when we go to Vegas, I remain much more sedate when taking a nap waiting for a green light, knowing that my mpg isn't going into negative numbers. My previous two MKS's would average about 25mpg until I went into Vegas. When we would leave, the mpg would drop down to 20 or 21 mpg. Waiting at the lights, you could actually watch as the trip mpg dropped one or two tenths. I swear that Vegas only recruits traffic engineers from the bottom tenth of graduating classes.

Yep, even worse in an F150, Been there, Done that, Hated Vegas cause of it.

[aschulz261]

I battled that traffic for 15 years. I can tell you that you don't realize how GOOD traffic is UNTIL the traffic computers go down. When that happens, your commute times will likely quadruple!

[CCalvinN]

Got a second fill up. 344.6 miles, 10.993 gallons. 31.35 mpg.

 

Still not the 32-34 I want, but far closer. Hopefully I'll find out that the first fill up was the outlier and that future fill ups (at least in winter) will be higher.

 

Oh, so long as I'm posting again. I've found a good compromise on the idling while lunching. I drive to the spot and still keep the car 'on', but I turn the climate control off. I can still leave the radio on (NPR baby!), as well as the heated seats and heated steering wheel to keep me warm enough. The last two days at lunch when I did this, I remained warm enough and the car stayed in EV mode.

[lolder]

The Atkinson engines in these cars almost never "idle" in the usual sense. They have the throttle plate almost wide open even if the RPM is only around 1000. Instead of burning a few tenths of a gallon per hour, they are burning almost a gallon. The energy is used to charge the HVB until it's full. You get the energy back but it is less inefficient that way. Anytime the ICE is running and the car is not moving drastically lowers the mpg. It's fine and proper that you use the car for comfort in this weather but don't expect even close to EPA numbers until warmer weather

Edited February 23, 2015 by lolder

[CCalvinN]

Another fillup. 29.42 mpg.

 

I have to say I'm so happy that I came here and joined up with this forum. If I hadn't I'd be raging against this machine. Being here has allowed me two things.

 

1) The information as to why the fuel mileage is so low (remote start, idling, both of which burn far more fuel than a 'normal' care does while doing the same thing)

 

2) Seeing real people with real fuel mileages and the fact that they can average well above 40 mpg and are getting in the 30s in the winter. That alone gives me a lot of hope that I'll get far better fuel mileage as the mercury continues to rise.

 

I also got my best 'trip' fuel mileage yesterday. It was in the low 30s and sunny out making my HVAC system do very little work. I was also stuck behind some slower traffic that forced me to control the speed instead of letting the cruise do it's job. End result? When I got to work the screen stated I averaged 49 mpg. Even with the 'optimism' of the fuel computer I got over the epa estimates! WOO HOO!

Edited March 3, 2015 by CCalvinN

[Waldo]

 

 

1) The information as to why the fuel mileage is so low (remote start, idling, both of which burn far more fuel than a 'normal' care does while doing the same thing)

 

 

 

I think you're misunderstanding things a bit on this point. The fuel burned at idle is only more than a normal car when it's actively charging the battery. This extra fuel you "get back" by using the EV mode in the future. Once the battery is full, the fuel consumed at idle won't be much different than a normal car. But the same as a normal car means you are not taking advantage of the hybrid system, which means that it is bringing down your overall average. Mathematically, when you are in the range of high MPGs, any part of your drive that is in the range of a "normal" vehicle will bring down the number much faster than it will bring down the number in a "normal" car. In other words, you're not actually burning more fuel, you're just pulling down the average faster.

[lolder]

The fuel flow above 40 mpg is very low . Little things have big effects. Headwinds cost 3 mpg per 10 mph. Noisy roads can cost a few mpg. Speed costs 6 mpg per 10 mph. Temperature costs 2 mpg per 10ºF. lower temperature. AC costs 1 to 10+ mpg. Wet roads cost 1-10 mpg.

 

If it's very cold and you're speeding against headwinds in the rain on a noisy road, you'll probably run out of gas 15 minutes after you fill it up.

 

Otherwise, you'll probably get in the 40's mpg.

 

People buy new car models usually in the Fall. That's when the weather turns adverse to good mileage. This mileage disappointment with hybrids in the Winter is legendary. Spring and improved driving habits brings much better results. Then you never have to add gas.

 

I might have exaggerated a little.

Edited March 3, 2015 by lolder

[ptjones]

Grill Covers will add up to 4mpg and speed up your warm up time, if you can figure out how to make them. Driving style can also make a big difference in MPG's in City driving, with Temps in 20's I can still get 45-50mpg around town. :shift: :) Paul

[GrySql]

The fuel flow above 40 mpg is very low . Little things have big effects. Headwinds cost 3 mpg per 10 mph. Noisy roads can cost a few mpg. Speed costs 6 mpg per 10 mph. Temperature costs 2 mpg per 10ºF. lower temperature. AC costs 1 to 10+ mpg. Wet roads cost 1-10 mpg.

 

If it's very cold and you're speeding against headwinds in the rain on a noisy road, you'll probably run out of gas 15 minutes after you fill it up.

 

Otherwise, you'll probably get in the 40's mpg.

 

People buy new car models usually in the Fall. That's when the weather turns adverse to good mileage. This mileage disappointment with hybrids in the Winter is legendary. Spring and improved driving habits brings much better results. Then you never have to add gas.

 

I might have exaggerated a little.

Lolder, this is one of your best, great post!

Science and droll humor, my favorites... :rating:

[lolder]

After I made the "15 minutes" comment above, I read in USA Today that the 6.2 liter, 707 Hp Dodge.Hellcat can exhaust it's 18.5 gal fuel tank in 13 minutes at full throttle and it's maximum 204 mph.

[ptjones]

WOW. 50miles on a tank of gas. Ouch! LOL

 

Paul

[Easy Rider]

Sounds a bit like the Winnebago I just got.

With a tail wind it MIGHT get 8.5 MPG.