Battery dead due to inactivity?

[LEM]

Hi all!

 

I have been on travel for 5 weeks and during that time my car has just been sitting there.

I asked my wife to start the car remotely from time to time, just to keep the battery active.

 

She was going to go for a ride today (it hasn't been driven during all this time) but then she said that she couldn't remote start it.

The red light on the remote went on.

Then she went to the car but she was unable to unlock the door. It doesn't beep or anything.

 

I'm still on travel so I can't really check what's going on.

 

Do you guys have an idea what it could be? Could it be the battery in the remote? In the car?

Could something go wrong with the car for not driving it during all that time? I hope not...

 

 

Thanks for your replies, guys.

Edited February 4, 2015 by LEM

[hybridbear]

Sounds like a dead battery. The Owner's Manual explains how to unlock the car with the key hidden inside the fob. From there you can put a charger on the 12V battery. Note that the instructions say to charge the 12V from the ports under the hood, not by connecting the charger directly to the battery.

[Easy Rider]

Sounds like a dead battery.

No doubt.

Just starting the car without letting it run a while is actually counter-productive.

Attaching a fully automatic small charger is a MUCH better thing to do for long periods of non-use......or very infrequent use even.

 

It is also possible that you might need a new battery now but you won't really know that until you charge it up good and see how it holds up.

[hybridbear]

Just starting the car without letting it run a while is actually counter-productive.

I'm not sure I understand why it would be counter-productive. Remote starting the car engages the DCDC converter which charges the 12V battery. There is no initial high demand like in a conventional vehicle caused by starting the car.

[LEM]

Are you guys talking about the car's battery? or the remote?

 

If so, how can the battery of the car be dead if it the car has been started periodically?

[jeff_h]

Probably isn't the remote, but rather the 12V battery.... if you want me to stop over with a set of jumper cables on Thursday, send me an email.

[Easy Rider]

I'm not sure I understand why it would be counter-productive. Remote starting the car engages the DCDC converter which charges the 12V battery. There is no initial high demand like in a conventional vehicle caused by starting the car.

Certainly not AS high but there is an extra surge when all the computers come alive, the dome light comes on, the climate control kicks off and maybe even the auto headlights come on for a minute or so.

 

It might take only a few minutes to recover that energy used but it certainly takes more than a few seconds.

[LEM]

Probably isn't the remote, but rather the 12V battery.... if you want me to stop over with a set of jumper cables on Thursday, send me an email.

 

Thanks so much, Jeff! You are so kind. I'll be back in 2 weeks so if that's the problem I will just use my wife's car, otherwise you can count that I would call you!

[LEM]

Certainly not AS high but there is an extra surge when all the computers come alive, the dome light comes on, the climate control kicks off and maybe even the auto headlights come on for a minute or so.

 

It might take only a few minutes to recover that energy used but it certainly takes more than a few seconds.

 

But I still don't understand why the battery went dead if the car has had the engine running for 10 minutes 2 or 3 times a week.

 

And when you say it's counter-productive, you mean for the battery or for something else in the car?

[aschulz261]

I have no proof, but I have a serious suspicion, that the DC-DV converter charges the 12V battery at a considerably lower rate than we have all gotten used to with an alternator. 10 minutes or so with a 100A alternator can put a serious amount of energy back in to a battery. I'm guessing that the DC-Dc converter uses something more like a max of 30A. If you add in that the car's computers don't really turn off right away and continue to consume power for quite a while after the car is turned off, and that things like the headlights, dome lights, etc all use power after the car is turned off, it could be said that running it for 10 minutes really doesn't add any charge to the battery. I believe that is what was meant by being counter productive.

[acdii]

If the battery is low to start with, it takes much more than 10 minutes run time to recharge it. Minimum 30 minutes charge time is needed. By remote starting it, as Easy pointed out, if its cold out, the seat heaters(if equipped) are on, the defrost is one, so 12v is being drawn, the DC/DC is supplying energy for that plus charge the battery.

 

So in a way it could be counter productive, and may have been better off just letting the car set.

[GrySql]

I have no proof, but I have a serious suspicion, that the DC-DV converter charges the 12V battery at a considerably lower rate than we have all gotten used to with an alternator. 10 minutes or so with a 100A alternator can put a serious amount of energy back in to a battery. I'm guessing that the DC-Dc converter uses something more like a max of 30A.

COMPONENT OPERATION

The Direct Current/Direct Current (DC/DC) converter control module is protected by a 30 amp high voltage low current fuse located in the High Voltage Battery Junction Box. The Direct Current/Direct Current (DC/DC) converter control module steps the high-voltage down to a low-voltage (between 13.0 and 15.5 volts, depending on vehicle needs), providing power to the vehicle low-voltage battery systems. Depending on the vehicle and environmental conditions, the Direct Current/Direct Current (DC/DC) converter control module is capable of outputting as many as 165 amps to the 12-volt battery. When installing a new Direct Current/Direct Current (DC/DC) converter control module the two high-voltage terminals must not be reversed and the 12V B+ cable terminal must be torqued properly or component damage will occur.

[GrySql]

In addition, I agree that a 10 minute idle will not overcome the initial Body Control Module functions when the car is first started.

Every one of the below is monitored and requires a little bit of power:

 

Body Control Module (BCM)

The BCM controls the following:

• Battery saver function
• Brake shift interlock
• Delayed accessory function
• Dimmable backlighting
• Decklid release
• Exterior lighting
• Horn
• Ignition state messaging
• Push-button start function
• Interior lighting
• Key validation (part of the PATS)
• Keyless entry keypad
• PATS
• Perimeter alarm
• Post crash alert function
• Power door locks
• RKE system
• Remote start
• TPMS

[LEM]

hey guys,

 

Thanks so much for all the detailed explanation about what could have caused this issue. It's too bad, because I asked my wife to do this explicitly to avoid the battery to discharge!

And now it seems it caused completely the opposite of what I had in mind.

 

I won't be able to take a look in two weeks, because I'm still on travel.

By the way, I have a push button on my car, but I guess the jump battery procedure will be the same that you would do with other cars, right?

 

Thanks again. This is the best forum ever... Special thanks to jeff_h who even offered to jump start my car while I'm not there! I owed you a lunch and now you can add dinner. :)

Edited February 5, 2015 by LEM

[hybridbear]

Certainly not AS high but there is an extra surge when all the computers come alive, the dome light comes on, the climate control kicks off and maybe even the auto headlights come on for a minute or so.

 

It might take only a few minutes to recover that energy used but it certainly takes more than a few seconds.

Remote starting does not turn on the dome lights or auto headlights. Also, when the car is started to drive, the DCDC converter has this initial high spike, not the 12V battery. The large drain on the 12V battery is when you unlock the car & open the doors, etc. Those lights drain the 12V battery. But as soon as you press the start button the DCDC converter kicks in and provides all the power for the start-up sequence that GrySql posted from the HVB. Typical DCDC converter load without headlights is about 200-350 Watts. During the initial start up the DCDC converter load is about 1000-1500 Watts for about 3-5 seconds. Once all that start up is complete the load stabilizes. Headlights add another couple hundred Watts of power draw on the DCDC converter. When you turn off the car the auto headlights will also place a large drain on the battery for however many seconds you have them set to stay on. Again, opening the doors, etc places a load on the battery to run all those lights. If LEM's car has been parked, no one has been opening or closing doors to trigger those 12V battery drains, and thus remote starting should have taken care of the 12V battery. During a remote start event the car doesn't appear to go through all of those tests because when you start it there is still the initial spike in DCDC converter power. Remote starting does engage the DCDC converter.

 

I have no proof, but I have a serious suspicion, that the DC-DV converter charges the 12V battery at a considerably lower rate than we have all gotten used to with an alternator. 10 minutes or so with a 100A alternator can put a serious amount of energy back in to a battery. I'm guessing that the DC-Dc converter uses something more like a max of 30A. If you add in that the car's computers don't really turn off right away and continue to consume power for quite a while after the car is turned off, and that things like the headlights, dome lights, etc all use power after the car is turned off, it could be said that running it for 10 minutes really doesn't add any charge to the battery. I believe that is what was meant by being counter productive.

The highest I've ever seen the car report was 12 amps going to the battery at 14.3 volts. This was when the 12V was seriously low, under 60% according to the BCM. Since the Energi charges the 12V while connected to the EVSE, I've never seen the Energi 12V go below 82%. When it gets down to the 80s the car likes to charge it at about 5-8 amps. Once the 12V is above 90% the car doesn't really try to charge it much more, maybe only 1 amp. Most mornings the Energi shows the 12V at 97-100% after being plugged in overnight. When we had the FFH it was never anywhere near that high. Maybe 85% was the highest.

Edited February 5, 2015 by hybridbear

[acdii]

If you have the RS setup to heat or cool that is the drain that would kill the battery over time. If you turn everything off though, then it "might" work. I still feel you need a minimum of 30 minutes to peak the battery.

[lolder]

The 10 minute runs only kept tht HVB up. They should have been 30 minutes or more to do the 12 vdc. The owners guide mentions this. If there are any glitches after you have fully charged the 12 vdc, replace it as it has probably been damaged. A damaged 12 vdc battery can cause a myriad list of problems even when it tests OK. The best remedy is to replace it.

[LEM]

The 10 minute runs only kept tht HVB up. They should have been 30 minutes or more to do the 12 vdc. The owners guide mentions this. If there are any glitches after you have fully charged the 12 vdc, replace it as it has probably been damaged. A damaged 12 vdc battery can cause a myriad list of problems even when it tests OK. The best remedy is to replace it.

 

Ok, thanks. I think I will replace it then. I don't want to take any risks.

 

Could you guys let me know the exact model that comes by default with the car? I would like to order it so I will have it ready by the time I get back.

My car is a 2013 FFH Titanium.

[murphy]

BXT-99R-390 is the model number. It is only available from a Ford dealer. I have heard that it has been replaced by a different model number but I don't know what the new number is.

 

The battery model number that is listed in the Owner's Manual is the one for the non-hybrid Fusion. It will not fit in a hybrid. Someone did a poor job on the cut and paste to create the hybrid version of the manual.

Edited February 5, 2015 by murphy

[Hybrider]

Hey GrySql, I was thinking we should pin a post with the new battery part number in the appropriate forum, since I had a helluva time finding the new part number via a forum search, due to needing more than 3 characters in each search term on this IP.Board.

 

This is what has been previously posted as the new 12V battery part number for the 2013-2015 FFH, BXT-99RT4.

[FordService]

...I'm still on travel so I can't really check what's going on...

I love seeing everyone being so nice and helpful!

 

When you get back from traveling, I recommend heading to your dealer to have a diagnostic. Let me know what you find out. :)

 

Meagan

[Texasota]

Hey GrySql, I was thinking we should pin a post with the new battery part number in the appropriate forum, since I had a helluva time finding the new part number via a forum search, due to needing more than 3 characters in each search term on this IP.

Or maybe we could generalize that to have a pinned post where we document the errors and omissions in the Owner's Manual? There have been many discussed in various threads. Here are a couple of omissions off the top of my head:

 

• No mention of the trunk release button
• No spare tire installation instructions (many of us have purchased spare tires). We could include a printable document (from the gas Fusion OM) that we can insert in our OMs. Long ago GrySql made this excellent sugestion.

There are many errors the Forum has stumbled into with the incorrect battery part number being one example.

 

Maybe this might help inspire Ford to fix the errors/omissions.

[Easy Rider]

 

But I still don't understand why the battery went dead if the car has had the engine running for 10 minutes 2 or 3 times a week.

 

And when you say it's counter-productive, you mean for the battery or for something else in the car?

 

I see this has all been covered already so I won't add anything else to cloud the issue.

 

If you got your car late in '13 or early in '14 it might still be covered by warranty.

Be sure to ask. If the dealer will be installing it, the charges could be in the $300 range.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Easy Rider

[LEM]

Well you see the details (10 minutes, 3 times a week) weren't provided originally.

The original post(s) made it sound like it was being started and then shut off almost immediately. THAT would probably result in a net DIScharge of the battery.

 

That SHOULD have kept a healthy battery alive and well.

If it didn't, the battery itself is probably bad.

 

Sorry that I didn't mention that originally. Since I was doing that, is there still a chance that could be the battery in the remote?

[LEM]

I love seeing everyone being so nice and helpful!

 

When you get back from traveling, I recommend heading to your dealer to have a diagnostic. Let me know what you find out. :)

 

Meagan

 

Thanks, Meagan. I will do that.