New possible owner.......mega miles a year worth it?

[acdii]

No clutches between the ICE and driveline. More EV performance, stronger motors, and a refined operating system.

 

 

The Accord system doesnt have a transmission, its all fixed ratio gearing. From what I heard it has a jerky motion to it at certain speeds when going in and out of EV mode due to the clutch.

 

The early insights had 6 speed manual transmissions with a combined electric motor/ICE power plant. It was an electric assist system and did not drive the car on battery alone. It was clunky and slow, and did not get the rated 60 MPG. It also had a habit of going through tires, and being 12" tires, they were hard to find.

 

The Civic also had battery issues that was software related.

[lolder]

The "Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive" and "Ford Power Split Device" are versions of a ( C )ontinuously (V)ariable planetary gear (T)ransmission with two motor generators ( MGs ) which are (E)lectronically controlled by software; hence "eCVT". One, MG 1 controls the transmission, starts the engine ( ICE ) and charges the high voltage battery ( HVB ). MG 2 is larger and propels the car and absorbs braking energy.

 

There are no bands, clutches, relays, solenoids, torque converters, alternators, v belts to wear out in the drive train. Everything complicated is done electronically and very smoothly. It is very elegant. Ford and Toyota seem to control the patents and only a few other makers such as Nissan have used it. All Ford, Mercury, Lincoln,Toyota and Lexus hybrids use this system. There are structural differences but the basics and strengths are the same.

 

Like all devices there are problems from time to time but trust us, these are superior in the hybrid world.

Edited January 13, 2015 by lolder

[hybridbear]

Well said lolder & acdii!!

 

You can lump the Chevy Volt in with the Accord Hybrid in being an inferior system from a complexity standpoint. The Volt is rather similar to the Accord Hybrid from what I've read about it.

Edited January 13, 2015 by hybridbear

[lolder]

I think the Volt is closer to our eCVTs. It may have a clutch somewhere but it doesn't intrude into smooth operation like the Accords and Sonatas, etal, can. Many of them depend on precise synchronizations for smooth clutch operation. Early Sonatas were a disaster. Even if they get them smooth, it's a harder job because it's electro-mechanical, not all electrical like ours. The Volt has a planetary gear drive system that is somewhat different but operates smoothly. GM says it isn't like a hybrid but it really is.

[acdii]

If it uses gasoline to provide electricity to propel the car, its a hybrid. LOL. Whether the ICE is connected to the drive train or not, it still uses gasoline.

[lolder]

The Volt ICE does provide power through the planetary gear at highway speeds once the HVB has reached it's minimum 20-25% charge level. The ICE cannot normally recharge the HVB. I'm not sure if it has a "mountain mode" where it can do that; maybe. It's performance changes little with the ICE running because acceleration assist is still available at the minimum HVB charge level. The government in deference to GM calls it an EREV or extended range electric vehicle. I think the ICE must be called an "extender". GM says the ICE can only provide direct power to the wheels in conjunction with the electric motor(s). Well that's the came as our eCVTs, GM said this to persuade the government to bail them out by saying they had a unique system. It is unique and more complicated with several clutches.

Edited January 14, 2015 by lolder

[md13ffhguy]

If it uses gasoline to provide electricity to propel the car, its a hybrid. LOL. Whether the ICE is connected to the drive train or not, it still uses gasoline.

It depends what the definition of is is. Hybrid seems to imply a car that is propelled by a combination of an ICE and electric motor(s). While the Volt has both, its ICE apparently does not propel the car on its own, therefore a different classification seems appropriate. Edited January 14, 2015 by md13ffhguy

[lolder]

The Ford hybrid ICE cannot propel the car through the eCVT without torque on the MG1 motor generator either. The Volt arrangement is different but it's an extended range hybrid no matter what they say. The main difference is that the Energi's have a 7.6 Kwh HVB and the Volt has a 16.5 Kwh HVB and uses more of it's charge range. The Energi is a nicer, cheaper car.

[acdii]

It's a Ford, 'Nough said! :)

[hybridwannabe]

Well took a look yesterday. Drove over an hour to the dealer and it figures as they did NOT have the car that I found online and was interested in. Still listed on their site too. They had every single other Fusion listed online in stock on their lot. Ouch. Anyway, this is a BIG car, much bigger in person than I thought. That's not a negative mind you and in fact a positive as I'm sure it's nice on the highway! I was just surprised. I'll have to look up the weight later, but I can see why the turbo models might not get great/as listed mpg. She's no lightweight I bet!

 

Btw, did not test drive since they didn't have the one I was interested in. Not going to waste their time nor mine and surely wasn't going to be talked into a different car/combo.

 

The 2014's are flying off the lots! The closest dealer to me had 2 of those funky red Fusion hybrids. Sunfire?? I hate it, but dig it at the same time. Weird. Now they are both gone, as is the maroon hybrid they had. All SE models. So 3 gone in less than 2 weeks. I thought for sure the sunfire would last on the lot for a while. I guess not. I also notice on Ford inventory checker the 2014 Fusion hybrid inventory getting much smaller lately up and down the east coast. Wasn't going down this fast 2 or 3 months ago when I first started looking. End of the year I guess.

 

Is there a thread about what people paid for their Fusion hybrid? I'm looking at an SE w/just a moonroof as an option. Truecar says $25,192. The dealer that didn't have the car I wanted had an online VIP price of $20,400. That's nearly $5k less than Truecar. I assume that price is BS? Thoughts on pricing for an SE w/moonroof only? Any salesmen on here?

Edited January 17, 2015 by hybridwannabe

[mwr]

That price might not be BS for a 2014 if they're trying to move them out. Maybe that's why the 2014s are "flying off the lots" as you said. The 2015 models have been out for several months. I got my 2015 for right at the truecar price at the end of October.

[acdii]

Your best bet, order one. Get it exactly as you want it, that way you will be happiest with it. Find one, drive it, make sure you like it, then order it. Takes 8-12 weeks.

[hybridwannabe]

Your best bet, order one. Get it exactly as you want it, that way you will be happiest with it. Find one, drive it, make sure you like it, then order it. Takes 8-12 weeks.

 

If I was looking for something really out of the ordinary, I probably would factory order. But I'm open to blue and ruby red, SE model and a moonroof as my only option. I realize the ruby red is higher cost. There are sooo many 2015's out there and thousands more to come, I'm sure I'll both combos will be available at various dealers over time. Speaking of moonroof, I think someone else mentioned it, but with such a largish overall roof, the moonroof itself seems really small. Like almost the aftermarket size they used to put in Mustangs back in the day.

[hybridbear]

If I was looking for something really out of the ordinary, I probably would factory order. But I'm open to blue and ruby red, SE model and a moonroof as my only option. I realize the ruby red is higher cost. There are sooo many 2015's out there and thousands more to come, I'm sure I'll both combos will be available at various dealers over time. Speaking of moonroof, I think someone else mentioned it, but with such a largish overall roof, the moonroof itself seems really small. Like almost the aftermarket size they used to put in Mustangs back in the day.

 

If you get a car off the lot it's been driven by other ppl and if it's a dealer trade it may have hundreds of miles. I agree with the recommendation to order. Then no one else drives it but you.

[murphy]

If you get a car off the lot it's been driven by other ppl and if it's a dealer trade it may have hundreds of miles. I agree with the recommendation to order. Then no one else drives it but you.

Except for the guy that drives it off of the line, the guy that loads it onto the railcar, the guy that unloads it from the railcar, the guy that loads and unloads it from the car hauler, and the guy that takes it to the nearest gas station to fill the tank.

 

I agree that ordering is best because no matter what, all of those people drive every car.

[hybridbear]

Except for the guy that drives it off of the line, the guy that loads it onto the railcar, the guy that unloads it from the railcar, the guy that loads and unloads it from the car hauler, and the guy that takes it to the nearest gas station to fill the tank.

 

I agree that ordering is best because no matter what, all of those people drive every car.

Exactly. My point was that no one other than the people who drive every car would drive it.

[jeff_h]

Exactly. My point was that no one other than the people who drive every car would drive it.

 

I've written on here once or twice that my Dad has worked for a dealer for the past 15+ years, driving 3-4 days per week (sometimes more based on customer needs) taking one new car to a distant dealer and bringing back another, in a dealer exchange or commonly known as 'DX' - I think most of the guys that do that are retired guys who just make a few bucks here and there, so they aren't dogging the cars by any means (but I understand the desire for a car with as few miles as possible).

 

He had an accident a few years ago, the pickup he was driving was totaled as he was sitting at a stop light and someone rammed right into the back of him at high speed (so obviously it was the other driver's fault). My first question to him was "are you OK" and he said yes, the second question was "so was that the vehicle headed to a buying customer, or the swapout for dealer stock?" and he said unfortunately the pickup that was totaled was the one that a customer was waiting on.... so yeah things like this can happen, so if you aren't in a hurry I guess placing a retail order may be the better move. :shift:

[hybridwannabe]

If you get a car off the lot it's been driven by other ppl and if it's a dealer trade it may have hundreds of miles. I agree with the recommendation to order. Then no one else drives it but you.

 

Yea I understand that aspect, however with a hybrid, I'm not too worried about someone going WOT on a test drive. I surely would never buy a dealer trade though, no matter what car it is. And I hate it when every dealer says "we can get any car for you". Sure they can, but we can search as well online with almost the same accuracy. For the Fiesta they wanted to bring one down over 300 miles away and of course I couldn't go up there to pick it up. They said it's a "law", though I find that doubtful and think it's just a Ford policy. No matter, I'll never do a dealer trade.

 

Anyways, I remember when I ordered my 91 5.0 Mustang. I met the salesman at a car meet. I ended up ordering through him and he called the second it came in and wouldn't let it off the truck until I arrived. Fortunately I busted arse to get there so not a long wait haha! Pretty cool though! Still it had 1.1 miles on it. I was way more anal back then about no one driving "my" car haha! I've seen orders come in with 15 plus miles (some early Fiesta ST's had upwards of 30 miles), while some of the Fusions and Focus' I've seen on the lot had under 4 miles. I'm OK with anything under 20 miles on the lot.

 

Anyone have the "Dune" seats? I'm not a fan of tan interiors and the Dune seats look like they could show dirt right off the bat! Though it does lighten the interior as opposed to the charcoal interior. Anyone with those seats notice dirt showing easily? Speaking of ordering, it didn't occur to me until I was out yesterday that I have yet to see on the lot a blue or maroon Fusion hybrid w/sunroof only option AND charcoal interior. Even online I don't think in my area. May indeed have to order to get that "exact" combo!!

Edited January 18, 2015 by hybridwannabe

[Texasota]

For me, the most important reason for ordering is that you can equip the car exactly the way you want it. Why settle for a compromise when a car is commonly the second biggest purchase in your life (house being first).

[hybridbear]

Yea I understand that aspect, however with a hybrid, I'm not too worried about someone going WOT on a test drive. I surely would never buy a dealer trade though, no matter what car it is. And I hate it when every dealer says "we can get any car for you". Sure they can, but we can search as well online with almost the same accuracy. For the Fiesta they wanted to bring one down over 300 miles away and of course I couldn't go up there to pick it up. They said it's a "law", though I find that doubtful and think it's just a Ford policy. No matter, I'll never do a dealer trade.

It's interesting to look at cars on the lot & see the un-reset trip meter to see how ppl have driven it. Our Energi had only gotten 20-something MPGe before we bought it. Who knows what they had been doing to it.

[Easy Rider]

For me, the most important reason for ordering is that you can equip the car exactly the way you want it.

 

But can you REALLY ?

For instance, last year they told me that I could NOT get a Titanium with cloth seats even if I ordered one.

What about getting all the bells and whistles EXCEPT leave off the grossly overpriced GPS ??

I don't think you can do that either.

[Hybrider]

When I did do my one and only FFH test drive, before ordering the one that was exactly what I wanted, I did in fact do the WOT test on it, but that was only for about 5 seconds. But then for the rest of my test drive, I drove the the tester the way a hybrid is meant to be driven.

 

I think the lowest mileage I have ever had on a special-order vehicle was 8 miles. But all the other vehicles I ordered had over 10 miles on them when I took delivery.

 

BTW, the full sticker price for a Ruby Red SE with the only option being the moonroof is ^$29,105.

[Texasota]

 

But can you REALLY ?

For instance, last year they told me that I could NOT get a Titanium with cloth seats even if I ordered one.

What about getting all the bells and whistles EXCEPT leave off the grossly overpriced GPS ??

I don't think you can do that either.

Point taken. What I meant was you could order it the way you want (within the limits/restrictions of the various options and packages as provided by the manufacturer) as opposed to the way the dealer ordered it. Still a lot to be said for that, in my opinion.

[tr7driver]

My fusion was the other side of a dealer swap, the car they got in exchange for one they sent, and it was almost exactly what I wanted, a nicely loaded 2014 FFH titanium without a sunroof (I need the headroom), and they made me a very good deal on December 31 of 2013. I was shopping for a deal on a 2013 and it just appeared on the lot about a week before Christmas, I don't think it ever was posted on their website. There were plenty of 2013's around at the time as well, but mostly SE models.

 

If I get close to what I want and can save $$$$, I don't care if its got 100 miles on it and I can learn to like most colors. The warranty clock starts when you write the check, and Ford will take care of any real issues. I expect to keep it for 10 to 15 years, we'll see.

[hybridbear]

What about getting all the bells and whistles EXCEPT leave off the grossly overpriced GPS ??

I don't think you can do that either.

You can. Our Energi is a Titanium with every option EXCEPT the navigation system.