Tire snow cables

[mwr]

The manual for my 2015 FFH says "Do not use snow chains or cables on this vehicle as they may cause damage to your vehicle". Really, no cables? How are we supposed to drive into the mountains in the winter? Here in California, chains (or cables) are often required in the winter in the Sierras.

[GrySql]

These?

[SteveB_TX]

These?

Those are hilarious! Wrapping your tires in basically tiny bungie cords is really gonna improve grip in snow and ice. LOL. Gotta love it! ;)

[GrySql]

Those are hilarious! Wrapping your tires in basically tiny bungie cords is really gonna improve grip in snow and ice. LOL. Gotta love it! ;)

But, but, but they are Michelins so they gotta work...

 

"manufactured using aramid and polyamide treated with polyurethane, steel and thermoplastic materials."

Edited November 24, 2014 by GrySql

[gkinla]

Those are hilarious! Wrapping your tires in basically tiny bungie cords is really gonna improve grip in snow and ice. LOL. Gotta love it! ;)

 

But, but, but they are Michelins so they gotta work...

 

"manufactured using aramid and polyamide treated with polyurethane, steel and thermoplastic materials."

 

I think "these" will work quite well on snow, but it's the long term driving on dry asphalt that may cause them to fail quickly. This an easy on easy off process so longevity may be improved by removing them when going to dry roads. Having something to work on our FFH's is a plus. Although it just may be the slipping and gripping that may cause the FFH drive train to fail, that's why Ford doesn't approve of chains, just my thoughts.

[mwr]

it's the long term driving on dry asphalt that may cause them to fail quickly.

You never want to use chains or cables for driving on dry pavement; it's death on them.

[nv rick]

You never want to use chains or cables for driving on dry pavement; it's death on them.

And on your car. Before I retired, The chains we used were the old chain link type. They would sometimes break, and the broken length of chain would whip the outside of the fender. They were a b*tch to install :censored: , as the cars had to be jacked up. We usually installed them after several inches of snow fell, and we ended up with all kinds of sludge on us. There were no real alternatives as we had to keep the squads on the street no matter what the weather. The only time that changed was when there was a full-out blizzard. Then everyone stayed in the station and went out only for emergency calls.

One year, we had a blizzard in April that was so bad, we had to commandeer snowmobiles to get to some medical emergency calls. I really don't miss those snowstorms since we retired to southern Nevada. The few times we get snow, it usually melts by noon.

[mwr]

Several nice replies, but none really addressing the issue of ""Do not use snow chains or cables on this vehicle...". Here in California, if you want to drive into the mountains (or through them headed East) in the winter, if you encounter significant snow the highway Patrol puts up "chain control" points on the highways and you can't pass without chains or cables (unless you have a 4WD with proper tires). Which leaves FFH drivers like me wondering how I can use my car this winter to go skiing etc.

Edited September 29, 2017 by mwr

[GrySql]

If you need an official reply, send Rachel, our Ford Rep, a PM with this question.

 

If I was going to use a tire snow traction device the Michelin's I linked would be my choice. Or, get snow tires.

[mwr]

If you need an official reply, send Rachel, our Ford Rep, a PM with this question.

 

If I was going to use a tire snow traction device the Michelin's I linked would be my choice. Or, get snow tires.

I did PM Rachel, who sent me a standard Ford response, copied below:

 

"This is true; chains and cables have not been approved for use on your FFH. Pages 178 and 184 in your Owner's Manual have tips for if your vehicle gets stuck in the snow. Page 305 also suggests installing snow tires for improved traction when driving in areas with sustained periods of snow or icy driving conditions.

 

Your dealer may have additional options. Do you know which tires your have on your FFH?"

 

I sent her my tire size and haven't heard back.

 

>the Michelin's I linked would be my choice<

 

How would they not be included in the "Do not use snow chains or cables on this vehicle as they may cause damage to your vehicle"

 

Snow tires don't get past our Highway Patrol's chain control points on highways.

[Easy Rider]

Several nice replies, but none really addressing the issue of ""Do not use snow chains or cables on this vehicle...".

How about this:

I suspect that it is more of a legal disclaimer than a practical prohibition.

That is, now their ass is covered if and when some moron installs chains improperly and they chew up the tire, suspension, body......or worse cause an accident and they try to blame Ford.

[mwr]

How about this:

I suspect that it is more of a legal disclaimer than a practical prohibition.

That is, now their ass is covered if and when some moron installs chains improperly and they chew up the tire, suspension, body......or worse cause an accident and they try to blame Ford.

Then why the "Do not use snow chains or cables..." on only the FFH (maybe others also, don't know that for sure)?

[GrySql]

There is a lot more to this than one would suspect, read the FF info below.

I don't think I'd use any snow cable on my car with 18" premium painted wheels, the clearance between the body is too tight and the wheels might get damaged.

So for the FFH it's snow tires, take another car or get a rental. I'll take my other car.

Added: I saw this on the BOF too.

 

This is what the standard gas only Fusion OM says about snow chains/cables.

Check the type and size of the wheel that is required:

 

The tires on your vehicle may have all-weather treads to provide traction in rain and snow. However, in some climates, you may need to use snow tires and cables. If you need to use cables, it is recommended that steel wheels (of the same size and specifications) be used, as cables may chip aluminum wheels.
Follow these guidelines when using snow tires and traction devices
• If possible, avoid fully loading your vehicle
• Purchase chains or cables from a manufacturer that clearly labels body to tire dimension restrictions.
• Use no larger than 15 mm cables or chains ONLY on front axle with 215/60R16 tires. Do not use chains or cables on any other size tires.
• The snow chains or cables must be mounted in pairs on the front axle.
• When driving with tire cables do not exceed 30 mph (48 km/h) or the maximum speed recommended by the chain manufacturer, whichever is less.
• Drive cautiously. If you hear the cables rub or bang against the vehicle, stop and retighten them. If this does not work, remove the cables to prevent vehicle damage.
• Remove the cables when they are no longer needed. Do not use cables on dry roads.
If you have any questions regarding snow chains or cables, please contact your authorized dealer.

Edited November 26, 2014 by GrySql

[mwr]

According to that Fusion OM, chains or cables are OK only on 215/60R16 tires. That rules out the P225/50R17 tires on my 2015 FFH SE.

 

But... The tire size calculator at http://tire-size-conversion.com/tire-size-calculatorsays this:

 

215/60R16 Diameter = 26.2"

225/50R17 Diameter = 25.9"

 

That says that my FFH tires have a smaller diameter than the tires that are approved for chains/cables on the non-hybrid Fusion.

Edited November 26, 2014 by mwr

[GrySql]

So, maybe we're really discussing the CVT or something in the drivetrain of these cars.

[GrySql]

Was just looking at the CA DMV Tire Traction Device laws. I noticed that certain tires bearing the marking on the tire of M-S qualify as legal snow tires.

This will not replace the need for snow chain/cables if the CHP requires them but will allow travel on most plowed streets/roads.

It just so happens that my new 235/45R-18 Continental PureContact with EcoPlus Technology tires are 'snow rated' and have the M+S marking.

Look at the tires on your car for that MS marking.

 

==

Tire Traction Device
27459. No person shall operate any motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer upon any portion of a highway without tire traction devices when that portion of the highway is signed for the requirement of tire traction devices. In any case where a passenger vehicle or motortruck having an unladen weight of 6,000 pounds or less may be required by the Department of Transportation or local authorities to be equipped with tire traction devices, the devices shall be placed on at least two drive wheels, or the department or local authorities may provide, in the alternative, that the vehicle may be equipped with snow-tread tires on at least two drive wheels when the weather and surface conditions at the time are such that the stopping, tractive, and cornering abilities of the snow-tread tires are adequate. The snow-tread tires shall be of a type and design manufactured for use on snow as a replacement for tire chains or tire traction devices, shall be in good condition, and shall bear the marking of M-S, M/S, or other marking indicating that the tire was manufactured for use on snow, or, in the case of tires purchased before January 1, 1987, shall either bear the markings or, in the opinion of the inspecting officer, comply with the tread pattern requirements of Section 558.


[lolder]

The manual for my 2015 FFH says "Do not use snow chains or cables on this vehicle as they may cause damage to your vehicle". Really, no cables? How are we supposed to drive into the mountains in the winter? Here in California, chains (or cables) are often required in the winter in the Sierras.

I think it's related to the construction of the eCVT including the electric motor. The "lurching" motion may damage them. Use another vehicle.

[mwr]

I think it's related to the construction of the eCVT including the electric motor. The "lurching" motion may damage them. Use another vehicle.

Do you have any support for saying it's related to the construction of the eCVT?

 

I bought this car to use for all of my driving, as I've done with cars all my life. That includes driving in or through the mountains in the winter here in California as millions of other people do with their cars. I don't consider your "Use another vehicle" helpful, although Ford officially seems to leave me no other choice. I'm certainly not finished with this yet.

[GrySql]

Even the gas Fusion has to be very careful about snow chains because of clearance, one person reported that the types he tried hit the hydraulic brake line on the back side of the wheel hub.

 

Added: LOL! On another forum I just read where one person asked if Ford will send a tow truck to transport his car all over the snow resort, or send a taxi to take him, and if not, pay for the extra days at the hotel until the 'chains required' signs were down.

 

I spent some time on the Chevy Volt Forum, it's OM also states that snow chains/cables are prohibited.

Those folks didn't take no for an answer and ended up with a couple choices that did work.

This is one of the successful snow setups that worked, mainly because there is no 'inside' to the chains.

He used these expensive Thule chains.

 

I just looked and the Amazon 'compatibility checker' reports that these Thule chains are suitable for use on my car with 18" tires.

See the circled area? It confirms that these will work.

It may be worth a call to Thule.

 

Edited November 28, 2014 by GrySql

[gkinla]

Looks like something that would be quite compatable on a Mars Rover.

[mwr]

I just sent this to my Ford dealer salesman, along with Happy Thanksgiving, telling him how much I like the car, etc....
---------------------
There is an issue that needs to be addressed. I've had no success at all with the Ford rep on fordfusionhybridforum.com on this issue. She repeated the Ford line and then passed me off to "your dealer". So here we are.

The issue is that the car's manual says "Do not use snow chains or cables on this vehicle as they may cause damage to your vehicle". You live here and probably know well that if you want to drive into the Sierras in the winter, to ski, go to Tahoe, or just to go East which takes you through the Sierras, you often need chains (or cables) to get past the CHP checkpoints (in addition to the safety factor). So what are Fusion Hybrid owners to do, stay at home or rent another car? I don't think Ford would like to be known as the car company that tells owners to "stay at home or rent another car".

[lolder]

Do you have any support for saying it's related to the construction of the eCVT?

 

I bought this car to use for all of my driving, as I've done with cars all my life. That includes driving in or through the mountains in the winter here in California as millions of other people do with their cars. I don't consider your "Use another vehicle" helpful, although Ford officially seems to leave me no other choice. I'm certainly not finished with this yet.

All cars are not suitable for driving in all conditions and never were. Steep snow covered mountains are a prime example. Four wheel drive SUV's would be my choice there.

In the eCVT Ford/Toyota transmissions, the large traction motor/generator is permanently geared to the front wheels. It is a variable speed/frequency brushless three-phase motor precisely controlled by heavy duty solid state electronics. These control whether it is used as a motor or a generator ( regenerative braking ) and to what degree. When a wheel slips and jerks repeatedly with chains or cables, I expect it might be very difficult for the control system and the traction control to sort out. That's just a guess.

There are a lot of sensors on wheels today that don't take kindly to flailing chains.

[mwr]

All cars are not suitable for driving in all conditions and never were. Steep snow covered mountains are a prime example. Four wheel drive SUV's would be my choice there.

In the eCVT Ford/Toyota transmissions, the large traction motor/generator is permanently geared to the front wheels. It is a variable speed/frequency brushless three-phase motor precisely controlled by heavy duty solid state electronics. These control whether it is used as a motor or a generator ( regenerative braking ) and to what degree. When a wheel slips and jerks repeatedly with chains or cables, I expect it might be very difficult for the control system and the traction control to sort out. That's just a guess.

There are a lot of sensors on wheels today that don't take kindly to flailing chains.

I'm not talking about or thinking about extreme conditions. Simply ordinary conditions that are to be expected a significant part of each winter here. Steep mountains? No, interstate highways through the mountains.

[FordService]

If you need an official reply, send Rachel, our Ford Rep, a PM with this question.

 

If I was going to use a tire snow traction device the Michelin's I linked would be my choice. Or, get snow tires.

Thanks for suggesting me, GrySql! :dance:

 

I did PM Rachel, who sent me a standard Ford response, copied below:

 

"This is true; chains and cables have not been approved for use on your FFH. Pages 178 and 184 in your Owner's Manual have tips for if your vehicle gets stuck in the snow. Page 305 also suggests installing snow tires for improved traction when driving in areas with sustained periods of snow or icy driving conditions.

...

I've checked all my resources, mwr. As the Owner's Manual states that snow chains or cables are not approved, I'm not able to suggest any modifications or other alternatives.

 

I understand snow tires are not a viable option for you; I recommend your dealer as they may have more specific information. :)

 

Rachel

[GrySql]

 

I'm not able to suggest any modifications or other alternatives.

I recommend your dealer as they may have more specific information.

Rachel

I like this alternative that I saw on another forum:

Will Ford send a tow truck to transport our FFH all over the CA snow resort, or pay for a taxi/limo to take us to the resort, and if not, pay for the extra days at the hotel until the CA 'chains required' signs were down? ;)

-

Meanwhile, for the California Dealer's point of view, I just dropped this issue on the desk of my SA at my favorite Dealership. I explained about CA's 'chain' rule vs snow tires, etc, etc.

After that discussion I asked this simple question: What is Ford's response to having sold FFH's to people in CA mountain communities where chains are often required.

 

If CA Ford FFH owners cannot drive their new $30k+ cars for part of the year because of some driveline or tire clearance issue, Ford better have a reasonable solution.

The SA is researching this issue.