Noisy engine/transmission normal up steep grades?

[nv rick]

Thought I'd drop in here since I found nothing at the MKZ hybrid forum.

My 2014 MKZ-h is very quiet whether in ICE or EV mode, except when driving up steep grades. At that time, it gets quite noisy, whether the engine or transmission, I can't tell. Is this normal? There also seems to be vibration felt through the steering wheel. As I said, at all other times, the car is as quiet as a church.

I haven't had time to take it into the dealer and would appreciate any info from anyone who lives in a mountainous area.

[acdii]

The ICE has to work hard to get up a steep grade, and depending on battery SOC you can get a decent foot massage. The car puts the ICE into a state of power consumption to get the most out of it, so it will load the engine as much as it can, and that will make it feel like this. There are some hills by me that if my SC is low the car gets pretty loud going up them, but if SOC is high it just sounds normal.

[nv rick]

acdii,

Thanks for the response. The pass I cross is quite steep when coming from Vegas to Pahrump. The lead up to where it gets really steep is a long, gradual uphill grade which depletes the SOC before I get to the really steep part, so the car is using mostly ICE for the climb. As I said, on relatively flat-and mild grades-the car is much quieter than the 2011 MKS I previously had. I'll mention this noise when I go for the first maintenance, but your reply has reassured me that this is probably normal and just a small nit I'll live with.

BTW, even with that pass, I've gotten as much as 43mpg between LV and Pahrump. On a trip to Lake Tahoe, on one portion of the trip, I got 58mpg. (That trip involved a lot of elevation change as well.)

[aschulz261]

I have driven that road many time when I lived in Las Vegas. That pass is surprisingly steep. I had a 94 Grand Prix GTP at the time and it would require full throttle to go up that hill! I have not made that drive in my Fusion, but I have made the trip up several passes in Colorado with it. I have noticed that the engine rpm's are a lot higher at high altitudes than at lower altitudes. I know that near se level where I now live, you have to work at it to get the rpm's over 2000 rpm. In Vail, Colorado, if the engine was running, it was NEVER below 3000 rpm. I am going to guess that on that pass (probably 4000-5000 ft), PLUS the grade, I wouldn't be surprised if it was at 4000 rpm or higher. Change the left display to show engine rpm and see how high the ICE is revving. I bet it is a lot higher than you think.

[acdii]

Thinner air too. Has to work harder to get the same power out of it, so higher RPM's wouldn't surprise me. When I drove from IL to CHino CA, I drove through Denver, and LV in my F150 Ecoboost. That truck pulled up those mountains in high gear and didn't even feel like it was under load. I would love to do that trip again in my MKT.

[GrySql]

Having just traveled over the CO Continental Divide at 11,000' plus in my FFH, it did stay at higher ICE RPM's when negotiating the steep grades and snow storms.

There was more noise from the ICE too. Seems a natural phenomenon to me, pulling a load up a hill at high altitudes needs more energy from the motor.

 

When you're in Chino again give me a call, I live 30 minutes from there. Love that Air Museum too.

[acdii]

I was there to get access to Swamp Ghost before they had shipped it to Hawaii. Wouldnt mind making the trip again though, but next time give myself more time for traveling and stay time, and maybe, just maybe seat time in a Warbird.

[lolder]

Thinner air too. Has to work harder to get the same power out of it, so higher RPM's wouldn't surprise me. When I drove from IL to CHino CA, I drove through Denver, and LV in my F150 Ecoboost. That truck pulled up those mountains in high gear and didn't even feel like it was under load. I would love to do that trip again in my MKT.

The Ecoboost is a turbo supercharger system that may not lose very much power with altitude. The Ford boost appears to be close to one additional atmosphere of pressure ( 60" Hg intake manifold pressure ) with temporary boost over that. A non supercharged full throttle intake manifold pressure at sea level is close to 30" Hg less a little for induction friction losses. The big radials on airliners ran close to 60" with geared supercharging but they only had compression ratios of about 7. Modern car engines produce much more HP per cubic inch of displacement. The aircraft engines produced a very high percentage of rated power, about 70%, over their entire lifetime and maximum power every takeoff. The radials could produce about 75% power up to 25,000' so that was their optimum cruising altitude for a long haul. It remains to be seen if these small modern high compression, high boost engines will hold up. The manufacturers know what is required.

Edited August 18, 2014 by lolder

[acdii]

Yeah the boost was great. Unlike the normal engines, the EB felt like it wasn't even working. I know the MKT has tons of power when I pulled the trailer, it hauled it easily though I can tell it was working hard. With today's oils and filters, and tight tolerence mototrs, I can see them lasting a lot longer than the older engines. I have a Freestyle I picked up recently with 171K on it and the engine runs smooth and quiet like the day it was built, no oil burning either.

[lolder]

The intake noise of the Atkinson engines at high power is something that hasn't really been reduced enough yet. You know they're trying with the intake manifold resonator that we've discussed a lot. As with exhausts, most intake noise reduction would probably create restrictions they don't want either. Someone mentioned that the active noise reduction was dropped for 2014 and I can't find it mentioned in the specs either.

[acdii]

I find the ANC can make it sound louder than it really is at times. ANC works by producing a counter sound, and sometimes that counter sound is deeper than the sound its trying to mask, so I hear a low resonance boom from the car. Sometimes I wonder if its the ICE or the ANC that I hear.

[lolder]

Noise reduction has been used for years in headphones and other devices so it's well understood. Doing it in a larger space lowers the frequencies that it's effective for but it's valid to use in a car for the lower frequencies that are of concern. It's an electronic/audio feedback servo system that must be stable but that's just design details. If it has been discontinued that's interesting. I think it was only on the hybrid so it obviously was an attempt to lower the Atkinson noise.

[Hybrider]

The 2015 order guide still lists "Active Noise Cancellation" as a standard feature for the FFHs.

[NVMike]

acdii,

Thanks for the response. The pass I cross is quite steep when coming from Vegas to Pahrump. The lead up to where it gets really steep is a long, gradual uphill grade which depletes the SOC before I get to the really steep part, so the car is using mostly ICE for the climb. As I said, on relatively flat-and mild grades-the car is much quieter than the 2011 MKS I previously had. I'll mention this noise when I go for the first maintenance, but your reply has reassured me that this is probably normal and just a small nit I'll live with.

BTW, even with that pass, I've gotten as much as 43mpg between LV and Pahrump. On a trip to Lake Tahoe, on one portion of the trip, I got 58mpg. (That trip involved a lot of elevation change as well.)

 

 

I just drove that hill last week and i did notice it got louder, just figured it is normal. I only got 38mpg, but the car is still breaking in and i am still learning how to drive it. Coming from my dodge CTD truck i have a big learning curve, always had plenty of power and never down shifted on that hill.

Edited August 20, 2014 by NVMike

[lolder]

The 2015 order guide still lists "Active Noise Cancellation" as a standard feature for the FFHs.

i couldn't find it anywhere in the on-line build your own but a chat box popped up and they confirmed it had ANC and 911 assist.

[nv rick]

I just drove that hill last week and i did notice it got louder, just figured it is normal. I only got 38mpg, but the car is still breaking in and i am still learning how to drive it. Coming from my dodge CTD truck i have a big learning curve, always had plenty of power and never down shifted on that hill.Yseterday

I checked yesterday, and when getting close to the top of the Spring Mountain pass, the engine is turning over 5000rpm.

Yesterday, we went to LV. On the way there, we averaged 42+mpg. On the way back, we got 38+mpg. The grade going west is much steeper than the other way, so that explains the difference. I always get lower mpg going west.

Just curious; how many miles do you have now? After our trip to Lake Tahoe and quite a few trips to LV, using any excuse to go, lol, we have over 2600 miles on ours. The lifetime mpg is slowly rising and just rose yesterday from 37.0 to 37.2mpg.

Surprisingly, the mpg between our home and LV is sometimes better than going to Pahrump, which is a 10 mile trip, although there are some trips at 45mpg. I'm guessing wind and temps may have some effect on shorter trips.

I have turned off EV+ to see if starting from home with a full charge will make a difference when going into Pahrump. With EV+ activated, the battery would lose some charge when getting close to home.

[mwr]

The lead up to where it gets really steep is a long, gradual uphill grade which depletes the SOC before I get to the really steep part, so the car is using mostly ICE for the climb.

Does it maintain speed well on the ICE-only steep part? What altitude? What speed?

[nv rick]

Does it maintain speed well on the ICE-only steep part? What altitude? What speed?

Speed is not a problem. Using ACC, 65mph is kept all the way to the top, with max rpms a little over 5000. I have actually had to pass cars after slowing behind them and had no problem. Elevation aat Mountain Springs is about 5400ft. Las Vegas elevation is a bit over 2000ft.

Passing on relatively level roads is surprisingly quick.

[corncobs]

Speed is not a problem. Using ACC, 65mph is kept all the way to the top, with max rpms a little over 5000. I have actually had to pass cars after slowing behind them and had no problem. Elevation aat Mountain Springs is about 5400ft. Las Vegas elevation is a bit over 2000ft.

Passing on relatively level roads is surprisingly quick.

I agree definitely no lack of power / speed going up a mountain grade. Going up and over the Continental Divide on I-70 was fun.

[lolder]

High speed acceleration in eCVT hybrids is better than the rated horsepower would suggest. Over about 40 mph, full throttle yields a steady red line rpm. There are no downshifts where the rpm dips down for the new ratio so all the peak HP is available for acceleration. It is noisy, however.

[Penn81]

I have a 19 Ford Fusion titanium hybrid with the exact same issue. Loud humming on upgrades headed to Reno especially. No lack of power what so ever. I’m super glad this conversation exists now at least I know my car isn’t losing a wheel or something to that effect haha!!