Feature Request: Let me hold the OK button to put off starting the gas engine

[James Sentman]

I have just under 400 miles on my FFH and I love it, such a great car. The way that it figures out how swiftly you’re going to accelerate by starting the crossover threshold very low and then moving it up as you accelerate is clever, some of the left hand screens will let you chase this boundary and stay in electric mode through a startup that isn’t too fast. However chasing that crossover point is both too slow and dangerous as I stare down at it rather than up at the road. Would it be an interesting idea if you could just hold the OK button on the steering wheel to temporarily disable the switchover. The car wold instantly apply up to it’s maximum available electric output without making me slowly ease into it and if I pressed the accelerator beyond that point it would just stay at the available electric output until the battery reached a low point or until I let go the button.

 

Consider that an official suggestion ;)

 

Perhaps it’s been discussed in the distant past here and perhaps it’s a stupid idea. Maybe they tested it and it didn’t make any difference or perhaps you can’t actually apply full power to the electric motor from a standstill? I feel like if I could easily hold it at full electric power I’d be happy with that much acceleration. It’s hard not to make the gas engine kick in.

 

Beyond a few minor annoyances with the MFT as I figured out how best to manage my iPhone playback through it this is the only even remotely frustrating issue. If I could go to the fully available electric output right away on startup that would be great. (and while I’m making requests, another 10% output from the electric motor would be perfect. Acceleration just on electric is just a tiny bit too slow to keep up with regular traffic around town. Another 10% would be perfect ;)

[acdii]

That would actually cost you more in fuel than just driving it normally. The HVB is not designed to handle that kind of current draw, and if forced, the pack could degenerate quickly. The more you ask out of the motor the ore amps it will draw, which quickly depletes the pack. The HVB is rated at a maximum current draw to avoid damage, exceed it and it will overheat and damage the cells.

 

Driven normally, using the ICE/EV blend will get you the most MPG. When you deplete the HVB, the ICE has to recharge it and propel the car at the same time, so if you are at highway speeds, I found that keeping the battery at its peak charge is netting me the most MPG. In City driving where you can capture some of that energy when braking, using EV works best. The trip I posted the other day where I got 46.9 MPG on my trip into work was done just like that. Got the battery fully charged and kept it there while doing 60 MPH, then when I reached 35 MPH zones I used EV/Regen/ICE. My start from stop is EV to about 15 then ICE kicks on to get me up to speed. I keep it at 2 bars on Empower until I reach my speed, then back off to get the most out of it and maintain speed.

[James Sentman]

I dont want it to give out more than where that crossover bar is, I just dont want to have to chase it while watching it. The amount of power it can deliver is the amount it can deliver, thats fine. I just want it to deliver that without my having to watch where the crossover point is. I did not mean to imply they should let me just fry the battery pack ;) Though I did suggest that 10% more output would make it just about perfect ;) I know that would be a much bigger deal than just letting me ignore the switchover point.

[Waldo]

I know exactly what you're talking about, I too wish there was some mode where you could have it in "max EV" mode. My suggestion would be to have a little detent in the pedal, so that when you got to that crossover, the pedal would get a little stiffer. Problem is, since that crossover is not always at the same torque level, the detent would be in a different position, so the system would have to be active. I know BMW has that detent for downshifts, but it's always at the end of travel and Nissan has a system that stiffens the pedal overall to promote "ECO" driving, but I've never seen a system that can have variable stiffness at different points in the travel.

[acdii]

With time you get muscle memory though and get to the point where you no longer have to look at the screen to know where it is. For some it would be seat feel, others hearing. Since SOC is a huge variable, I think it would be difficult to create the pedal feel since it varies so much. After 22K miles I can tell just how much pressure I need to stay in EV, how much to back off to drop into EV, and how much I need to stay at the threshold that is just above EV to stay out of it to maximize highway miles.

[hybridbear]

The hybrid has a 35 kW maximum charge & discharge rate. The Energi has a 65 kW max discharge rate & a 35 kW max charge rate. This explains why the Energi can accelerate much more quickly while staying in EV mode with the exact same electric motors under the hood. Since it has a larger HVB it can handle a faster discharge. The FFH can do more EV acceleration when EV+ activates. But, like acdii said, you'll get better fuel economy by accelerating with the ICE and using EV for coasting. The electric motors are less efficient at some of the higher power levels and thus it's better to use the ICE.

[James Sentman]

I understand that the more instantaneous power you take from the battery the less actual power is available. But thats a battery chemistry issue and not an electric motor issue. I’m not actually suggesting that the motor should output more power than it would give me anyway according to the current calculations that it’s already doing. Right now I have the option of accelerating so that my power usage stays right at that crossover point. But in order to do that I have to watch the screen because that switchover level is calculated, it seems, based on 2 things. The amount of charge in the battery at that moment and if you’re starting from a stop then the available power ramps up over the first few seconds. It’s my impression that this last is just so that if you pushed hard on the accelerator that it would more quickly engage the ICE to offer you a quicker acceleration and not for some efficiency or motor saving reason. I could be wrong about that but it doesn’t make any obvious sense to me otherwise. All I wanted to do was to be able to have it give me the power that it would anyway, but just not kick on the ICE. I dont want to change the math on the battery or motor at all, just dont make me watch the gauge if I want to use the available battery power instead.

 

I will admit this is probably a fools errand though and I should let the car manage itself. But they give you all that fancy information it’s natural for us to want to use it, and control it then ;)

[Kcouture25]

Not to derail this topic, but what is the best way to get the HVB up to full charge? Since I got the car last week, it shows anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 full. In it just gaining charge from the ICE and regenerative braking?

[acdii]

Sit with it in park and press on the go pedal, It will start the ICE and charge the pack. Or like I do, drive it at 60 MPH and don't let it go into EV, and when you slow to a stop you can get a full charge. Down side is when you accelerate back to 60 it uses some of that charge so it will sit at or about 70%. If you have remote start, with Heat or AC on, it will also fully charge it.

[hybridbear]

Not to derail this topic, but what is the best way to get the HVB up to full charge? Since I got the car last week, it shows anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 full. In it just gaining charge from the ICE and regenerative braking?

Typically you don't want a full charge though. The ICE is most efficient when it can be loaded up when running to charge the HVB. If the HVB is full then the ICE won't charge the HVB and will be less efficient when on.

[hybridbear]

I understand that the more instantaneous power you take from the battery the less actual power is available. But thats a battery chemistry issue and not an electric motor issue. I’m not actually suggesting that the motor should output more power than it would give me anyway according to the current calculations that it’s already doing. Right now I have the option of accelerating so that my power usage stays right at that crossover point. But in order to do that I have to watch the screen because that switchover level is calculated, it seems, based on 2 things. The amount of charge in the battery at that moment and if you’re starting from a stop then the available power ramps up over the first few seconds. It’s my impression that this last is just so that if you pushed hard on the accelerator that it would more quickly engage the ICE to offer you a quicker acceleration and not for some efficiency or motor saving reason. I could be wrong about that but it doesn’t make any obvious sense to me otherwise. All I wanted to do was to be able to have it give me the power that it would anyway, but just not kick on the ICE. I dont want to change the math on the battery or motor at all, just dont make me watch the gauge if I want to use the available battery power instead.

 

I will admit this is probably a fools errand though and I should let the car manage itself. But they give you all that fancy information it’s natural for us to want to use it, and control it then ;)

It's based on where the ICE is most efficient. It is most efficient to begin accelerating with the electric motor and then engage the ICE as you get up to speed. If you accelerate more aggressively then it's best to engage the ICE right away rather than deplete a lot of charge from the HVB.

[James Sentman]

I get that and it makes perfect sense. But they already give me that readout of the crossover threshold and if I watch the dial I can keep the car in electric mode when I’m not going to be accelerating very much or very quickly no problem. I can already do this, so it can’t be bad for the battery or motor or even for MPG. All I really want is to be able to do that without watching the gage in the dash. If I’m holding the button then just max out power at what it would give me if I WAS reading the gauge and ignore any slightly over zealous or inexact accelerator placement until I let go of the button.

Edited May 6, 2014 by James Sentman

[NewHiTi21]

I think a hold button would be great but set it at 1/2 a bar. Not full Electric power. For the best mileage at least on flat ground accelerate hard at 2 - 2 1/2 bars up to 5 or 10 mph over the limit then drop to ev and glide at 1/2 bar or less until your speed drops to about 5 under and the other cars start catching back up to you that you left at the lights. Then mash the throttle again at 2 - 2 1/2 bars and repeat. 50 mpg is easy using this method and you don't have to be a slow poke. This method would be a lot easier if you had a hold button.

[Ted Swing]

I get that and it makes perfect sense. But they already give me that readout of the crossover threshold and if I watch the dial I can keep the car in electric mode when I’m not going to be accelerating very much or very quickly no problem. I can already do this, so it can’t be bad for the battery or motor or even for MPG. All I really want is to be able to do that without watching the gage in the dash. If I’m holding the button then just max out power at what it would give me if I WAS reading the gauge and ignore any slightly over zealous or inexact accelerator placement until I let go of the button.

I see what you're asking for and it is something they could add, but I suspect they won't because it would lead a lot of people to decrease their MPG. If you think about it, any trip over 2 miles is guaranteed to use the ICE some of the time. The question is when do you use the ICE?

 

Optimally, you would use ICE for acceleration and EV for cruising and deceleration, because the ICE is most efficient at acceleration and least efficient at cruising/deceleration and the EV is just the opposite. That's what Acdii and Hybridbear were getting at. If you always accelerated in EV mode, then you will run out of charge more quickly and have the ICE kick in sooner while cruising, which again, it's less efficient for. It would lead to lower MPG. Given all the headaches Ford has had with the EPA numbers, I don't think they'd want to add an option to the car that leads people to get lower MPG.

 

I think your idea's not so far off, though. I would like a mode that tries to keep it in EV for very short trips. I hate it when I'm going half a mile or a mile and the ICE runs almost the whole time even though I could've done it in EV and then recharged the battery on another, longer trip where warming it up would make a difference.

[Easy Rider]

It could be worse.

At least I can move my Fusion out into the street without the ICE running.

 

I haven't tried to see how FAR the FFH will actually go but my Prius won't go more than a hundred feet or so without kicking off the ICE to warm it up.

That tends to leave a lot of moisture in the exhaust under some conditions.

[hybridbear]

It could be worse.

At least I can move my Fusion out into the street without the ICE running.

 

I haven't tried to see how FAR the FFH will actually go but my Prius won't go more than a hundred feet or so without kicking off the ICE to warm it up.

That tends to leave a lot of moisture in the exhaust under some conditions.

That's a major downside of the Prius. Depending on your SOC you should be able to get 1 mile or more with gentle acceleration. The FFH also allows you to skip Stage 1a of warm-up which leads to improved fuel economy. There's a thread going on at PriusChat right now of some users trying to figure out how to trick the Prius computer into skipping Stage 1a since it's so inefficient.

 

Check out this thread for details of how to skip Stage 1a in the FFH.

Edited May 8, 2014 by hybridbear

[Easy Rider]

I certainly would NOT classify it as a "major downside"; just a minor irritation.

I don't have a need to move my car only a few feet very often.

 

My Prius C is still going to get about 15 MPG better than the Fusion......or a bit more.

I call that a major "upside". :)

[Sleddog]

Easiest way to monitor the "crossover" point... HUD (Heads Up Display). Ford needs to put one in the FFH. With all the info visible to you while keeping your eyes on the road makes it easier to monitor the systems. I've seen systems like this before... In the military aircraft I've flown.

[corncobs]

Easiest way to monitor the "crossover" point... HUD (Heads Up Display). Ford needs to put one in the FFH. With all the info visible to you while keeping your eyes on the road makes it easier to monitor the systems. I've seen systems like this before... In the military aircraft I've flown.

Cool idea!

 

Ashley can you please forward this the product development team. Thank you :)

[acdii]

hmm 15 MPG more, or, better handling, more comfort, nicer looking, more power, more options. Close call. After 30K miles in the Fusion, and 22K in a Prius, Fusion wins. When I had the Prius I could not wait to get to where I was going, now its, oh man, here already?4

 

 

 

BTW, after you drive for a few thousand miles, it will become natural to drive efficiently and not need to look at the screens.

[corncobs]

With this statement I just pictured you in a Prius driving like a maniac because you couldn't get out of the metal box fast enough. ;)

 

I absolutely agree with the almost automatic efficiency after a few thousand miles.

[Easy Rider]

hmm 15 MPG more, or, better handling, more comfort, nicer looking, more power, more options. Close call. After 30K miles in the Fusion, and 22K in a Prius, Fusion wins. When I had the Prius I could not wait to get to where I was going, now its, oh man, here already?

 

Well you see......that's why I have one of each.

 

The C is just FUN to drive....kind of like a go cart. ;)

It is easier to park and gets a LOT better mileage in town.

 

But then there is the highway...............

For which the C just doesn't quite get it.

It really is not a BAD highway car but I wanted something a bit more comfortable.

 

The FFH-T fit the bill almost perfectly.

 

There are some little things that I have to "get used to" but that happens with almost any new car, especially a brand that you haven't owned in about 40 years or so.

 

The only thing that really eats at me a bit is the "memory" buttons for seat and mirror position not working when the car is moving.

The last car I had with that feature, I would set a couple of different seating postures and then change them "on the fly" to provide stress relief for back and legs. With this one, I have to play with the buttons on the side of the seat........and then can't return it to my "normal" settings until I stop the next time.

[acdii]

Agree 100% on the seat memory, I understand the reason why though. I had a 2008 Hyundai Veracruz, and one of the memory settings had the seat folding up towards the steering wheel and that car let you change memoery settings in gear. Had I hit that setting I would have crashed for sure.

 

BTW the FFH can park itself. LOL Makes it much easier to park than any car(of course you have to have that option installed). Bet my MKT parks easier too, it came with it and it does work. The P is a City car for sure, not going to argue that, and I think you pretty much summed it up totally, Can't beat the Fusion outside of the city.

[Waldo]

I know exactly what you're talking about, I too wish there was some mode where you could have it in "max EV" mode. My suggestion would be to have a little detent in the pedal, so that when you got to that crossover, the pedal would get a little stiffer. Problem is, since that crossover is not always at the same torque level, the detent would be in a different position, so the system would have to be active. I know BMW has that detent for downshifts, but it's always at the end of travel and Nissan has a system that stiffens the pedal overall to promote "ECO" driving, but I've never seen a system that can have variable stiffness at different points in the travel.

 

Nuts, looks like I should have patented my idea:

 

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/mercedes-s500-plug-in-hybrid/

 

The pedal in the S550 plug-in works just like Nissan’s, but the goal is a bit different. The idea isn’t simply to tell the driver to ease off, but to warn him that he’s about to fire up the gas engine. Unlike hybrids, plug-in electric cars can drive at everyday speeds on battery power alone (the S550 can hit 87 mph on electricity alone; the gas engine is good for 130 mph). Usually, a car will stay in electric mode until the battery’s drained or until it needs the added oomph of internal combustion to provide the acceleration demanded by the driver. Because PHEVs are new to most people, Mercedes thinks its customers could use some help getting used to how they work, and how to drive them most efficiently. The haptic feedback of a pedal pushing back against your foot essentially tells you, “Hey… keep it up and the engine will kick in.” Implicit is the message: Do you really need to go faster, or would you rather save fuel?