Horrible buying experence followed by ordering a custom Fusion. Is this normal?

[Maryland_Driver]

So last night I went to a dealer to purchase a Deep Impact Blue Fusion Hybrid Titanium. Apparently the set of options I was looking for were impossible to find nearby (Titanium in Deep Impact Blue, Driver assists, adaptive cruise, and nav). Eventually she found a car that had my features plus a lot more. I had previously said that I was ready to do a 5K deposit and so the manager gave me a "total purchase price" of $35,000 which worked out to my $5,000 deposit and 514.58 a month for a 72 month loan at 1.89% interest. I confirmed with the manager that $35000 was the total "out the door" price and she said yes. While talking this over with my family I thought the payment was high so I ran the numbers myself and determined that the payment was for $35,000 financed. Which meant that the price was going to be $40,000 including my deposit. When I pointed this out to manager she said that it was a mis-understanding we were using different definitions of out the door At that point I said that we were only going to talk full purchase pricing and I can deal with the financing on my own (because at this point I don’t trust them to not screw me over).

 

The manager said that at the price point I wanted they couldn’t make the car they found work however they would be able to order me a car at that price. As this was 9:30 at night they didn’t have any more official forms for it but they would put the order in the next day. So they took an sticker from a car with the features that I was looking for (in a different color). Crossed out the color, had me initial the features I want, sign at the bottom, give a deposit and they would order it. Before I signed I wrote on it “$5K refundable deposit, for an out the door purchase price (tax, tags, title, and all fees included) of $35,000” I asked if there was any more official paperwork/purchase order to sign and was told there was nothing else to sign/do till the car comes in.

So after my previous (less than honest) interactions with this manager/dealer I’m a bit nervous about this order/purchase actually happening, and if it happens having it happen at an out the door price of $35,000.

 

For those of you who have ordered a car from the factory before did you sign/commit to a purchase order? Did it cover price and options? Is this experience normal for trying to buy/build a car?

 

 

[hermans]

So last night I went to a dealer to purchase a Deep Impact Blue Fusion Hybrid Titanium. Apparently the set of options I was looking for were impossible to find nearby (Titanium in Deep Impact Blue, Driver assists, adaptive cruise, and nav). Eventually she found a car that had my features plus a lot more. I had previously said that I was ready to do a 5K deposit and so the manager gave me a "total purchase price" of $35,000 which worked out to my $5,000 deposit and 514.58 a month for a 72 month loan at 1.89% interest. I confirmed with the manager that $35000 was the total "out the door" price and she said yes. While talking this over with my family I thought the payment was high so I ran the numbers myself and determined that the payment was for $35,000 financed. Which meant that the price was going to be $40,000 including my deposit. When I pointed this out to manager she said that it was a mis-understanding we were using different definitions of out the door At that point I said that we were only going to talk full purchase pricing and I can deal with the financing on my own (because at this point I don’t trust them to not screw me over).

 

The manager said that at the price point I wanted they couldn’t make the car they found work however they would be able to order me a car at that price. As this was 9:30 at night they didn’t have any more official forms for it but they would put the order in the next day. So they took an sticker from a car with the features that I was looking for (in a different color). Crossed out the color, had me initial the features I want, sign at the bottom, give a deposit and they would order it. Before I signed I wrote on it “$5K refundable deposit, for an out the door purchase price (tax, tags, title, and all fees included) of $35,000” I asked if there was any more official paperwork/purchase order to sign and was told there was nothing else to sign/do till the car comes in.

So after my previous (less than honest) interactions with this manager/dealer I’m a bit nervous about this order/purchase actually happening, and if it happens having it happen at an out the door price of $35,000.

 

For those of you who have ordered a car from the factory before did you sign/commit to a purchase order? Did it cover price and options? Is this experience normal for trying to buy/build a car?

 

 

I ordered a FFH and a MKZh and I did not sign any papers until the cars arrived and I took delivery. I never paid a deposit. I did give them my DL information and they had to prove that they were retail orders and not dealer orders. $5.000...wow...was that your idea or the dealers?

[hybridbear]

$5000 seems like a very high deposit...when we ordered our car we signed paperwork stating exactly what features we were ordering and the agreed upon price. The dealer was selling us the car for invoice price and that was stated on the form. We gave them a $500 deposit with our credit card at that time. The $500 then became part of the down payment we gave them when picking up the car.

[hybridbear]

Negotiating an out the door price gives them a lot of leeway to screw you over. You're better off negotiating the price of the car first to invoice price or lower if possible. If the dealer won't sell the car at invoice price then go somewhere else. See this thread for info about invoice pricing. If no local dealer will give you invoice price on a factory order then you should check out this info about how to get X-Plan pricing. Then ask for a break down of the out-the-door price. Be sure to get each line broken out. Typical OTD costs are sales tax, license fees and a dealership document fee. These 3 charges are legitimate. Most states limit how much a dealer can charge for the document fee. In MN it is capped at $75. Once you have confirmed that they aren't charging you any extra fees then you can talk financing.

 

Check out the great resources from KBB, Edmunds and other sources about how to not get ripped off by the dealer. Sometimes you can even come out ahead where the dealer loses money on your sale like in this post.

[jeff_h]

For those of you who have ordered a car from the factory before did you sign/commit to a purchase order? Did it cover price and options? Is this experience normal for trying to buy/build a car?

 

I have placed several retail orders and the only thing I've signed up front was the form to note the model/trim/color/options so they had proof that YES they ordered what I wanted.

 

The above situation sounds like suspicious to me like they are taking you for a ride, maybe they sense that you have new car fever and will give in to whatever, and you haven't even made it to the finance guy that will try and sell you an extended warranty with a "special going on right now" price.

 

I will send you a PM, we bought my wife's car at one MD dealer last year and my car at another MD dealer, I doubt you were at one of these dealers (at least I hope!).

[Maryland_Driver]

A few updates/answers:

 

* The 5K deposit was my idea. Looking back in the light of day a smaller one would have been better. My thinking at the time was that $5K was going to be my down payment and why not put it on my credit card to get points (since I'll pay it off at the end of the month).

 

* I heard back from the dealer today via e-mail. I've got a copy of the "Vehicle Order Confirmation" and they've ordered the car I want. I also got e-mail confirmation of the previously agreed price. Not as good as if I had a signed purchase order but better. Hearing that others also had an order without a firm signed order agreement makes me worry less.

 

Negotiating an out the door price gives them a lot of leeway to screw you over. You're better off negotiating the price of the car first to invoice price or lower if possible. If the dealer won't sell the car at invoice price then go somewhere else. See this thread for info about invoice pricing. If no local dealer will give you invoice price on a factory order then you should check out this info about how to get X-Plan pricing. Then ask for a break down of the out-the-door price. Be sure to get each line broken out. Typical OTD costs are sales tax, license fees and a dealership document fee. These 3 charges are legitimate. Most states limit how much a dealer can charge for the document fee. In MN it is capped at $75. Once you have confirmed that they aren't charging you any extra fees then you can talk financing.

 

Check out the great resources from KBB, Edmunds and other sources about how to not get ripped off by the dealer. Sometimes you can even come out ahead where the dealer loses money on your sale like in this post.

 

 

I think I got a below invoice (and x-plan) price but I'm not an expert so I could be missing something. According to the paperwork that I got from the dealer invoice on my car is 34092.78. MD tax alone makes it 36138.34 total (not counting title, doc fees,whatever). I don't care what magic they do with their own price/doc fee/whatever to make the price work at that point since I'm now below invoice (and approaching holdback I think)

 

 

 

I have placed several retail orders and the only thing I've signed up front was the form to note the model/trim/color/options so they had proof that YES they ordered what I wanted.

 

The above situation sounds like suspicious to me like they are taking you for a ride, maybe they sense that you have new car fever and will give in to whatever, and you haven't even made it to the finance guy that will try and sell you an extended warranty with a "special going on right now" price.

 

I will send you a PM, we bought my wife's car at one MD dealer last year and my car at another MD dealer, I doubt you were at one of these dealers (at least I hope!).

 

 

That's my thought. I assume that they're taking me for a ride so I'm looking at everything really suspiciously. I'm planning on getting my waranty from http://www.troy-ford-extended-warranty.com/ and I've got my credit union financing ready to go. Since I'm not looking for clearcoat, scotchguard, or pinstriping I'm not planning on paying any extra from now on (but I could be really naive in that statement)

 

Thanks for all of the replies.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Maryland_Driver

[jeff_h]

That's my thought. I assume that they're taking me for a ride so I'm looking at everything really suspiciously. I'm planning on getting my waranty from http://www.troy-ford-extended-warranty.com/ and I've got my credit union financing ready to go.

 

I checked the price of the 4yr/125k plan as I just bought one a few days ago for the car I bought a couple months ago... the above site lists $1,270 as the price, I just got mine from floodfordesp.com for $1,155

[hermans]

A few updates/answers:

 

* The 5K deposit was my idea. Looking back in the light of day a smaller one would have been better. My thinking at the time was that $5K was going to be my down payment and why not put it on my credit card to get points (since I'll pay it off at the end of the month).

 

* I heard back from the dealer today via e-mail. I've got a copy of the "Vehicle Order Confirmation" and they've ordered the car I want. I also got e-mail confirmation of the previously agreed price. Not as good as if I had a signed purchase order but better. Hearing that others also had an order without a firm signed order agreement makes me worry less.

 

 

 

I think I got a below invoice (and x-plan) price but I'm not an expert so I could be missing something. According to the paperwork that I got from the dealer invoice on my car is 34092.78. MD tax alone makes it 36138.34 total (not counting title, doc fees,whatever). I don't care what magic they do with their own price/doc fee/whatever to make the price work at that point since I'm now below invoice (and approaching holdback I think)

 

 

 

 

That's my thought. I assume that they're taking me for a ride so I'm looking at everything really suspiciously. I'm planning on getting my waranty from http://www.troy-ford-extended-warranty.com/ and I've got my credit union financing ready to go. Since I'm not looking for clearcoat, scotchguard, or pinstriping I'm not planning on paying any extra from now on (but I could be really naive in that statement)

 

Thanks for all of the replies.

Sorry, I should have included that I bought using A & Z Plan. The price was fixed and there was no negotiation on price. There was no need for me to get a signed price quote.

Edited February 12, 2014 by hermans

[Aquineas]

Not so much relevant to your case because you've already ordered, but the big 3 have very high vehicle inventories at the moment. When many of us bought last year, the Fusion was in very high demand. I have no evidence one way or another that that's still the case for the Fusion, but it might be something to consider.

 

Like Hybridbear, I only put down $500 on my CC for mine. Please note that when my car came in, the salesperson filled out paperwork that had a higher final sale price than what we had previously agreed upon. I reminded him of our email agreement and he immediately adjusted it. Be vigilant.

 

P.S. You were very smart to double-check their numbers when they calculated the payment. I've had more than one dealer try to throw stuff in at the last minute that I caught only because I had my laptop handy (with a prepared spreadsheet).

Edited February 12, 2014 by Aquineas

[Hybrider]

That's my thought. I assume that they're taking me for a ride so I'm looking at everything really suspiciously. I'm planning on getting my waranty from http://www.troy-ford-extended-warranty.com/ and I've got my credit union financing ready to go. Since I'm not looking for clearcoat, scotchguard, or pinstriping I'm not planning on paying any extra from now on (but I could be really naive in that statement)

 

Thanks for all of the replies.

 

 

 

I checked the price of the 4yr/125k plan as I just bought one a few days ago for the car I bought a couple months ago... the above site lists $1,270 as the price, I just got mine from floodfordesp.com for $1,155

 

Some plan configurations _are_ cheaper at Troy than at Flood, possibly due to different parameters plugged into their price generators, or cuz of different plan options.

 

For PremiumCARE, $0 deductible, 7yr/60k, No first-day rental:

Flood: $900

Troy: $835

[Maryland_Driver]

Anywhere other than Troy or Flood that I should price out extended waranties? At this point that's the only other thing that I could think of that the dealer could offer me that I want.

[tr7driver]

I bought a fusion off the lot at the end of the year. The selection of available cars was pretty good and I was able to find pretty much what I was looking for. The new care sales manager told me demand for hybrids was strong and at first wasn't willing to negotiate much. The used car manager told me that demand for hybrids was slow as gas prices have eased and he couldn't give me much in trade for my Milan Hy.

 

How's that for talking out of both sides of your mouth?

 

On Jan 1 they were closing out their books on 2013 and everyone was in the mood to deal.

[Hybrider]

Some plan configurations _are_ cheaper at Troy than at Flood, possibly due to different parameters plugged into their price generators, or cuz of different plan options.

 

For PremiumCARE, $0 deductible, 7yr/60k, No first-day rental:

Flood: $900

Troy: $835

 

My mistake, Troy is sneaky and has a hidden adder for the $0 deductible ($290). So the comparison for this specific plan configuration is really:

 

For PremiumCARE, $0 deductible, 7yr/60k, No first-day rental:

Flood: $900

Troy: $1125

 

This makes me think that Flood may very well have the better deals on _all_ of the plan configurations. Plus the Flood website (http://floodfordesp.com) presents all of the plan prices in easy-to-compare tables.

[dalesky]

$5000 seems like a very high deposit...when we ordered our car we signed paperwork stating exactly what features we were ordering and the agreed upon price. The dealer was selling us the car for invoice price and that was stated on the form. We gave them a $500 deposit with our credit card at that time. The $500 then became part of the down payment we gave them when picking up the car.

My experience was like yours- a credit card deposit to hold the car, and have it built for me. I did wrangle for a while to get the price I expected. I also evaluated the process with a negative for the wrangling. I finally reached a deal when I said if the salesman left once more time (he left 3 times) I would end our transaction. I have always liked the process of buying a new car, but only if I am treated honestly and fairly.

[dalesky]

Not so much relevant to your case because you've already ordered, but the big 3 have very high vehicle inventories at the moment. When many of us bought last year, the Fusion was in very high demand. I have no evidence one way or another that that's still the case for the Fusion, but it might be something to consider.

 

Like Hybridbear, I only put down $500 on my CC for mine. Please note that when my car came in, the salesperson filled out paperwork that had a higher final sale price than what we had previously agreed upon. I reminded him of our email agreement and he immediately adjusted it. Be vigilant.

 

P.S. You were very smart to double-check their numbers when they calculated the payment. I've had more than one dealer try to throw stuff in at the last minute that I caught only because I had my laptop handy (with a prepared spreadsheet).

Before I left I got a copy of the figures, signed by the salesman. I had no problems getting the agreed on price, once we reached one.

[hybridbear]

I also enjoy the buying process...maybe I can start a side business buying cars for ppl who hate the process...

[corncobs]

I also enjoy the buying process...maybe I can start a side business buying cars for ppl who hate the process...

Profit based on savings of MSRP. You should look into this :)

[Sleddog]

I initialed a purchase form with the codes for what I wanted. My dealer said all they needed was a 500 deposit and a driver's license. I gave them more of a deposit. My form did not state the deposit was refundable, by they said it would be no issue if the sale was cancelled. They would refund the deposit. They estimated the tax tag and title. The ended up being less then estimated when the final paperwork was signed. They also locked in any rebates at the time I ordered and they stated if there were more rebates when I picked the car up, I would get them. There was and I did.

 

One more thing, be sure they don't try and pass on any price increases to you. You should only have to pay the price stated when ordered.

[Ted Swing]

I also enjoy the buying process...maybe I can start a side business buying cars for ppl who hate the process...

Some businesses already exist that do that. I heard about them when I was looking into getting my car. They charge a flat fee (usally a few hundred, I think). It doesn't speak very highly of the car dealing profession that they are middlemen who are so unpleasant to deal with that people would hire another middleman to deal with them.

[dalesky]

I also enjoy the buying process...maybe I can start a side business buying cars for ppl who hate the process...

 

I also enjoy the buying process...maybe I can start a side business buying cars for ppl who hate the process...

I have actually helped some people buy a car, as you suggested. I did it for friends, so no compensation was involved. A lot of people are intimidated by the process. At one dealer the salesman finally suggested that I might need to buy something cheaper. That was a nice thing to say! At another, after we had agreed, and I came back the next day with my checkbook, the salesman brought in a closer and tried to change the price. I walked, and never came back. Ironically, when I did buy the car from another dealer, It had a cross threaded spark plug, and the dealer had to replace the head, at their cost. That dealer was a stand up operation. When I was buying Hondas I bought two from the same guy, and we reached a price in 5 minutes, and he never left the office. Overall it is often an unpleasant process.

[tr7driver]

I like to tell the salesman that he only gets one trip to the office, so make it his best shot. I have no problem taking a walk. They always call the next day anyway.

 

I remember a guy telling me that what I wanted "was impossible to do on a Honda CRV, shop around and see for yourself." He called me the next day to see if he "could do anything" to get me into that car. I said I took his advice and found the deal I wanted at another store. His sales manager was on the phone to me less than ten minutes later saying he thinks he could work it out. It was too late, someone else won my business and by that point I didn't want to deal with them. But I did say thanks for selling me on the car.

[acdii]

With my dealer he only went to the finance office to work up numbers since they had access to my current records. They worked on different cars that were out there to see what they could do. This was all when I had the BD. Prior to that, what I did was sent an email, here is what I can see them selling for at invoice, here is what I would like to buy it for, can you do it, yes or no, and they came back yes. I was happy, they were happy and deals were made. I never had to bicker, wheel or deal with them, the other dealers I worked with(except Toyota in Elgin), it was painful, and I didnt get that good feeling when I left that I get with my current dealer. When I bought the Prius and Camry, The Prius was the only one, and they were selling hot, and NO one was dealing on them, but financing was super low so it was an easy deal. The TCH, I sent them an email, can you sell it for this much, with tax title license, no extras, this is what the price is, and they said yes, and I was happy there too. Irony is both of them were silver.

 

I hate silver cars, never again.

[dalesky]

With my dealer he only went to the finance office to work up numbers since they had access to my current records. They worked on different cars that were out there to see what they could do. This was all when I had the BD. Prior to that, what I did was sent an email, here is what I can see them selling for at invoice, here is what I would like to buy it for, can you do it, yes or no, and they came back yes. I was happy, they were happy and deals were made. I never had to bicker, wheel or deal with them, the other dealers I worked with(except Toyota in Elgin), it was painful, and I didnt get that good feeling when I left that I get with my current dealer. When I bought the Prius and Camry, The Prius was the only one, and they were selling hot, and NO one was dealing on them, but financing was super low so it was an easy deal. The TCH, I sent them an email, can you sell it for this much, with tax title license, no extras, this is what the price is, and they said yes, and I was happy there too. Irony is both of them were silver.

 

I hate silver cars, never again.

I agree with the silver remark. Friends just bought a silver Prius. In addition to being an unattractive car (IMHO) the silver is so blah. I am not trying to irritate anyone who has or likes silver, just my feelings on the color.

If you look at the top of the forum, the Fusion shown is the color I have. I like it!

[tr7driver]

There are a million silver cars that all look the same to me. Our 10 Milan Hybrid was silver and my wife often walked up to other silver cars clicking the remote in parking lots, lol. However, when we traded it there was actually a bonus premium for the color in the calculation, so it all goes back to what you like.

[acdii]

Its funny but when I was shopping to the first FFH all I could find were silver ones. Needless to say I found one of the rarest colors in the FFH instead. That deep dark green.