SC to taxpayers: "Don't buy Fusion Hybrids"

[inco]

It's amazing how jaded we have become when expecting governments to do the right thing. They have taught us well.

[acdii]

we are from the government, we are here to help you.....

 

 

 

 

 

[doctor who]RUN!!!! [/doctor who]

Edited February 9, 2014 by acdii

[MaineFusion]

Since the concept behind gas tax is to roughly a certain amount of revenue per mile driven, maybe the best thing to do would be to peg gas taxes to the fuel economy standards. In turn they could also do away with tax credits for hybrids and EVs because the savings from fuel taxes would offset the loss of those tax credits. We can't expect fuel tax rate to remain the same per gallon if we are getting way more miles out of a gallon of fuel. This would also act as a tax penalty for those who insist on driving gas guzzling vehicles.

[Texasota]

Since the concept behind gas tax is to roughly a certain amount of revenue per mile driven, maybe the best thing to do would be to peg gas taxes to the fuel economy standards.

An interesting idea but how do you implement it? Something the motorist enters at the gas pump on an honor system or a technology that brings us back to a "big brother" system?

Edited February 25, 2014 by Texasota

[MaineFusion]

An interesting idea but how do you implement it? Something the motorist enters at the gas pump on an honor system or a technology that brings us back to a "big brother" system?

You're thinking too complicated. States could simply index their fuel tax rate to the Federal government's CAFE standard. This would be very similar to how cost of living adjustments can be indexed to consumer price index. Indexing fuel taxes to CAFE standards would help keep the fuel taxes raised more in line with the actual miles driven, which is what causes the wear and tear on our roads and bridges.

 

This also has the merit of having a built in tax incentive to drive more fuel efficient vehicles and making gas guzzlers progressively more expensive to drive over time.

Edited February 25, 2014 by MaineFusion

[Texasota]

You're thinking too complicated. States could simply index their fuel tax rate to the Federal government's CAFE standard.

 

I did not understand your proposal. I incorrectly jumped to the conclusion that your idea was that a vehicle with poor MPG (such as a pickup truck) would pay a higher tax rate as compared to a hybrid that has good MPG. I think I jumped to that conclusion because the CAFE standards have different requirements based on vehicle class.

 

But I think I am following now - your proposal simply indexes (increases) the gas tax rate with each increment in MPG requirements as defined by the CAFE standard? The goal being that this technique results in the same amount of tax being collected as the vehicles become more efficent and use less fuel. If I have it correct now, then it seems like a workable approach to me as long as the federal goverment does not "mandate" that the states use that technique to collect their state fuel taxes.

[MaineFusion]

 

I did not understand your proposal. I incorrectly jumped to the conclusion that your idea was that a vehicle with poor MPG (such as a pickup truck) would pay a higher tax rate as compared to a hybrid that has good MPG. I think I jumped to that conclusion because the CAFE standards have different requirements based on vehicle class.

 

But I think I am following now - your proposal simply indexes (increases) the gas tax rate with each increment in MPG requirements as defined by the CAFE standard? The goal being that this technique results in the same amount of tax being collected as the vehicles become more efficent and use less fuel. If I have it correct now, then it seems like a workable approach to me as long as the federal goverment does not "mandate" that the states use that technique to collect their state fuel taxes.

Yes this is exactly what I'm proposing. It is probably the simplest way possible to keep the amount of road taxes coming in stable as vehicles become more efficient.

[acdii]

How would it be implemented then, at the pump?

[hybridbear]

Yes this is exactly what I'm proposing. It is probably the simplest way possible to keep the amount of road taxes coming in stable as vehicles become more efficient.

Great suggestion!! Send it to your congressional representative!

[Texasota]

Any system that attempts to maintain consistent tax collections will probably require frequent adjustments and tuning because increased fuel efficiency is not the only reason tax collections are decreasing. Here is an interesting article that discusses these issues and it points out that Americans are driving less and owning fewer cars than in the past. If this trend continues, then the problems associated with decreasing tax revenues will continue to be more challenging:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/crash-the-decline-of-us-driving-in-6-charts/281528/

[acdii]

Well if there are fewer cars, and less driving, then there should be less wear and tear. I can say, there is a lot more that needs to be fixed in this country, that taxes will never resolve, especially when entitlements far exceed any revenues. The teaches union by me are planning to go on strike next week because they aren't getting their requested pay increases, however, they earn more per year than the average household makes in this area by $3k. I say fire them all and disband the union and make them work a real job like those of us who pay the taxes for their salaries. They are bitching over a $10 a month charge for increased healthcare costs, wow, wish I only had to pay $10 a month!

[rjent]

One idea I did not read in this thread (and I know I am late getting here, ain't retirement great LOL) is to privatize the highway system and collect tolls when ever you drive. It would put a lot of folks to work (at toll booths, maint, etc) eliminate three times the equipment in a county (city has a backhoe, county has a backhoe, Home Security has a backhoe, City has a dump truck, county has a dump truck, .... you get what I mean). Yes oversight is needed, but I think with competition from bidders to run the "system" you would have a better system than we do now. Eliminate the gas tax (not used for what we pay anyway) and let the highway contractors collect the usage fees.

 

I have been self employed, and employed people for 40 years. I can always run a entity more efficiently than a gov. agency. Just a fact.

 

Just my .02

[hybridbear]

One idea I did not read in this thread (and I know I am late getting here, ain't retirement great LOL) is to privatize the highway system and collect tolls when ever you drive. It would put a lot of folks to work (at toll booths, maint, etc) eliminate three times the equipment in a county (city has a backhoe, county has a backhoe, Home Security has a backhoe, City has a dump truck, county has a dump truck, .... you get what I mean). Yes oversight is needed, but I think with competition from bidders to run the "system" you would have a better system than we do now. Eliminate the gas tax (not used for what we pay anyway) and let the highway contractors collect the usage fees.

 

I have been self employed, and employed people for 40 years. I can always run a entity more efficiently than a gov. agency. Just a fact.

 

Just my .02

The issue with that is the increased transaction volume. Imagine having to deal with charges and receipts for say 3 or 4 toll roads a day versus paying gas tax as part of the gas cost.

[acdii]

Just look at how well that is working for the Chicago Parking Meters!

[MaineFusion]

One idea I did not read in this thread (and I know I am late getting here, ain't retirement great LOL) is to privatize the highway system and collect tolls when ever you drive. It would put a lot of folks to work (at toll booths, maint, etc) eliminate three times the equipment in a county (city has a backhoe, county has a backhoe, Home Security has a backhoe, City has a dump truck, county has a dump truck, .... you get what I mean). Yes oversight is needed, but I think with competition from bidders to run the "system" you would have a better system than we do now. Eliminate the gas tax (not used for what we pay anyway) and let the highway contractors collect the usage fees.

 

I have been self employed, and employed people for 40 years. I can always run a entity more efficiently than a gov. agency. Just a fact.

 

Just my .02

There are some things that are the responsibility of government to provide to everyone regardless of the individual's ability to pay. A good road infrastructure is one of them and it is one of the things that is actually written into the U.S. Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 7). Yes, here in New England private toll roads gave us the ability to fund major infrastructure projects early on, but there are still alternatives to these toll roads and they are the exception not the rule. They also aren't necessarily run in efficient manners and have many of their own operational problems. Privatizing some things creates its own host of problems, especially when the private entity has a virtual monopoly (think of your cable company). The drive for profits doesn't magically bring efficiency and better service. Sometimes it just makes something more expensive for consumers overall.

[MaineFusion]

The issue with that is the increased transaction volume. Imagine having to deal with charges and receipts for say 3 or 4 toll roads a day versus paying gas tax as part of the gas cost.

 

Not to mention the increased overhead with trying to collect the tolls and process those transactions. In addition to added labor costs, there would be the added expense of maintaining toll booths and all the electronic wizardry that is necessary to have automated payment systems. All this would do is create "make work" jobs that add no value to the economy or road system.

[Texasota]

Here is another article related to taxing motorists by the mile. Unfortunately, my state (Minnesota) is one of the states experimenting with a pilot project:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/12/29/tax-per-mile-americans-should-not-allow-gps-tracking-cars-trucks/

[dalesky]

As my home state for almost 9 years now, I must say that SC has some interesting approaches to many things, politics included of course. This issue tho, they have been trying to prevent energy saving in many forms, and lead the nation in NOT adopting solar for example. North Carolina, colder, less sunshine, much more commitment to using solar.

The latest nonsense, explained in the paper today, is about how the gas prices here (3rd lowest taxes in the nation) are not below two dollars. In fact prices around me range from 1.12 to 1.20 right now. The explanation? cost of using the pipelines to move fuel, and that is due to limited capacity. What nonsense.