Cross Traffic System Fault

[cjn-md]

fpliptak, Congrats on the buy back. I am sure you are feeling relief moving on to another vehicle.
In the rare and extreme cases this happens (such as yours and mine) this issue is just too complex to effectively troubleshoot as the cross traffic system operates on all system data buses on this vehicle. Maybe design wise this made sense to save money however for repair the ability to fix repeating errors we both the answers to.

My 2014 MKZ has 48,000 miles in it since I picked it up in May 2014. Nothing but good things to say about my'14 MKZ other then a failed trunk latch assembly/dead battery at 47,200 miles. The dealership took good care if these including replacing 19 month old battery so I would not have issues down the road.

My average MPG has been 44.5 dipping to 40 in the Maryland winter. You will not be disappointed as this is a very nice ride.

[Bassism101]

Hello,

 

 

I have a 2016 HyTi that I purchased with 10 Miles on it in June of 2015. Since I hit about 10k miles I've had the dardnest time. Every so often It will show the following issues all at once:

 

 

Cross System Fault

BLIS Fault (with indicators when the vehicle first turns on)

Right side Windows will not roll down (this is from both driver and passenger)

Climate Control failure - Unable to communicate with Climate Control System

The Entire button panel of the entertainment/climate control system is unresponsive. (no volume control, seek/search, A/C or Heat - Seats included)

 

 

Is there any suggestions? Its currently in this state and I just got it back from an unfortunate meeting with a deer, however this issue occurred well before the accident.

 

22k Miles currently (I drive a nice bit)

 

 

Thanks in Advance

[murphy]

Have the 12 volt battery tested for voltage stability under load.

[lolder]

It's under warranty. What does the dealer say? The 12 vdc battery is always the first suspect in cases like this.

[fpliptak]

Well the saga continues.

Ford agreed in December to repurchase the car but since then there has nothing but the run-around. My Ford rep must have left the company because his e-mail address is no longer valid. The Vehicle Reacquisition Team said they could not do anything until the new vehicle was delivered to the dealer (it finally arrived last Wednesday 03/23/16) and I was told three days to calculate the spreadsheet. I guess they are using the old method of stacking stones to add the numbers and then weighing the piles.

 

The fact that I had to wait until the car I ordered arrived, in my mind, makes this a replacement vehicle and not a buy-back. They could have bought it back in December and I would have agreed had I know how long Ford would drag their feet.

 

The sour taste in my mouth is turning bitter.

 

If there is a Ford rep monitoring this forum please speak up and explain why Ford is being so recalcitrant. Do you want customers who feel they have been betrayed after waiting 16 months for a repair that was never done and then promising to "make it right" I have followed all the rules except that I did not go to arbitration with the Better Business Bureau. Why Not? Because Ford agreed to buy back the vehicle then decided to drag this out to make it painful. Wow, what a great company! I have purchased 5 brand new Ford vehicles over the past 21 years. I had faith in their products; two first year models (1995 Mercury Mystique, 2006 Mercury Milan), two bleeding edge technologies for Ford (2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid, 2013 Ford Fusion Plug-In Hybrid [Energi]) and now all I get is "well, we need more time to calculate the spreadsheet"

 

The Lemon Law in Connecticut is quite clear but Ford seems to have chosen to delay, delay, delay and drag their feet.

 

I have a new 2016 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid waiting on the lot and a 2013 Ford Fusion Plug-In Hybrid [Energi] sitting in the garage that thinks 65 miles/hour in Drive is the same as being in Reverse. It spent 89 days in the shop during 2015, had all the sensors changed (at least I was told so), had the wiring harness changed (at least I was told so), had all the ground checked and magically found a bad ground and repaired it only to find the very next day that apparently that was not the problem.

 

 

Does Ford even care?

[cjn-md]

Wow, you now have my story beat.
Sorry to hear that Ford is not doing the right thing and is dragging this out.

Hopefully you have not put on too many more miles as this will be what they are "recalculating" to take off your re-purchase offer.
Not sure why Ford held this up over your new car as these should be two separate transactions, unless doing it this way offsets taxes on the new vehicle where you live. In Maryland it did work this way as all original taxes on the Fusion where applied against my MKZ.

 

Hope you enjoy the new MKZ. My average MPG is still 44.5 MGP after 54,000 miles only 0.5 MPG off the original sticker of 45 MPG.

I know you will not look back once you get the MKZ.

[fpliptak]

Hello Ford rep. Are you listening? How about a comment? In many circles I would be a "Golden Customer". What I feel like is someone Ford could not give a cap about. Bad car that we can't fix, it's not our problem, it's your problem. We'll sell you a new car.

[fpliptak]

Wow,

 

Just got another e-mail from the Vehicle Reacquisition Team. Another delay. Right now I have ZERO faith that Ford has any intention to make this right. I did everything by their rules and they just keep me out on a string saying they will make it right.

 

 

Ford Reps, WHERE ARE YOU???

 

This has been going on for 16 months and 4 months ago Ford agreed to REPLACE the car. Since then, nothing but delays and excuses.

 

I have to ask myself, Do I even want to own another Ford product after being treated this way.

 

Getting more disgusted by the minute.

 

Ford Reps, WHERE ARE YOU?????

 

Somebody step up and get involved and explain why I should not be upset.

 

Now is the time!

 

Disgusted

Frank Liptak

[fpliptak]

Well, the sky opened yesterday at the end of the business day (4:17 P.M.). I finally received the worksheet with the official numbers for the replacement. It appears I only have to workout the final details with the dealership to take possession of the new MKZh. I will be in touch with the Sales Manager either today or tomorrow to finalize the transaction.

 

Again, I would like to thank everyone in this forum who has contributed to my understanding of the process and the encouragement to make it happen.

 

The sad part is the my wife and I both loved the car and the color but the color (Ice Storm) is not available for either the 2016 Fusion or MKZ. We also loved the Plug-in and used it to the best extent possible. Based on our current situation (moving and downsizing in the next two years) we felt it was best to drop back to the Hybrid rather than the Plug-in since we may end up in an apartment and there would be no way to take advantage of the Plug-in.

 

I look forward to hopefully finishing the process by the end of the week.

 

Wish me luck.

 

Frank Liptak

[cjn-md]

Well this is great news!

Hopefully you will be in your new ride soon.
All the best and I know you will enjoy it!

[fpliptak]

Well, it is over, at least the car has been replaced. My wife and I dropped off the Fusion Energi at the dealership yesterday and drove the 2016 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid home. Ford bought the Fusion back and replaced it with the new MKZ. There are still some sketchy parts to what went down. It seems that Ford went out of its way to never admit to the car being a Lemon. In fact I was told it "was not under the lemon law" but just a buy-back. I still have a couple of open items (at least in my mind). There were a couple of items that were supposed to be reimbursed (according to Connecticut's Lemon Law) that Ford did not cover even though I supplied receipts for the items. The dealership tried to contact the Ford Re-Acquired Vehicle Team but they did not answer the call and also did not return the call within an hour. Because of this the dealership said they would eat the cost of the extra keys I had purchased for the Energi and I would contact the RAV Team with my other complaints/concerns. It seems to me that Ford did everything it could to avoid the association with the Lemon Law. Connecticut is very specific about what happens to both the vehicle and the title associated with a vehicle that is determined to be a Lemon.

 

For some reason I cannot paste into the Reply area so I have attached a document outlining what has to be done after a vehicle is deemed a Lemon in CT:

 

Because of the requirements, I believe Ford did not want to go through the arbitration process and just repurchased the car.

 

There are still some things I intend to do to get back the additional items Ford did not address (even though I supplied receipts multiple times).

 

The GREAT NEWS is that I have a new 2016 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid in the garage!

CT_Lemon_Law.pdf

[cjn-md]

Congratulations on the new Lincoln. You held out and beat them down to "do the right thing" or at least Ford's idea of what this is.

I hope you enjoy your new ride as much as I enjoy mine.
All the best, Charlie

[KandB]

I originally posted this under '2013-2016 Fusion Hybrid' and then I found this topic. My heart sank when I read this. Below is what I posted.

--------------------------------------------------

I'm new to the forum and this is my first Ford since my father's Galaxy 500 back in the 1960s. I'm looking for anyone's thoughts on a continuing error with my 2016 Fusion Hybrid. It has 2400 miles on it; we (my wife & I) bought it in May and the car had been on the dealer's lot since early December. The car is great with this one large exception.

At 639 miles, I got an on-dash error, "Cross Traffic System Fault" and the Vehicle Health Report showed "The Blind Spot Information System (BLIS)/Cross Traffic Alert (CTA) system has detected a fault." I chose to ignore it as a fluke.

At 1867 miles (3 weeks later), it repeated on the dash and the Vehicle Health Report. The report also said I had an urgent Brake System alert, "…low brake fluid level or a brake system malfunction has been detected." This time, it went to the dealer and they traced the brake error to a low battery which they replaced under warranty (the LVB based on the part number but the service rep thought it was the HVB at the time).

Two weeks later, July 15, at 2155 miles, the "Cross Traffic System Fault" is back on the dash and the VHR. It went back to the dealer. They could not reproduce the error nor pull any codes. They contacted Ford but were unable to make any progress, stating that they couldn't isolate it without a code. They aren't saying the alert is false (I gave pics of the message on the dash & the VHRs to show that it happened) but they can't trace it.

So the plan for the moment is to head back to the dealer the next time it happens, keep the car on, and have them pull codes. That's not much of a plan considering that it may not happen during business hours, etc. (I'll also spring for an OBD scanner to keep in the car.)

So here I am posting to the forum… any similar experiences? And wisdom to share? I'm not gonna let this go since it will affect future value of the car and I'll never trust the BLIS or cross-traffic alert system until it is fixed.


Thanks, anyone.

[Automate]

I'll also spring for an OBD scanner to keep in the car.

 

Make sure you get one that can read the MSCAN bus. This post shows which bus the modules are on

http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=970&p=3472&hilit=hybrid#p8536

and the Obstacle Detection Modules are on the MSCAN

 

You can go with a cheap scanner with a mechanical switch but I would get a OBDLink MX.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Automate

[murphy]

When you run a VHR make sure that the parking brake is released. If the red brake light indicator is on when the VHR is run you will get all kinds of dire warnings about the braking system.

[KandB]

Thanks, Automate. I had found Forscan and Torque, as well as the OBDLink MX. Problem was that I made little headway figuring out which unit was good enough without being overpriced. So now I know the OBDLink MX works, so I've ordered it from Amazon.

 

And thanks, Murphy - that's a good bit of information. I truly don't know if the parking brake was on or off when I had the brake failure on the VHR.

[fpliptak]

KandB, I am sorry to hear about the errors you have been seeing as regards the Cross Traffic System Fault. My advice to you is to use a cell-phone or cheap digital camera and take a picture each and every time the fault shows up. I am convinced that if I had not done that I would still be fighting with Ford over the issue. Also in my favor was the Connecticut Lemon Law, which Ford avoided by not going to arbitration. Ford came very close to meeting the law but since they bought the car back without arbitration and the state being involved the title for the vehicle was not marked "Lemon" as per the CT state law. I am 99.99% certain that the car is currently sitting on a Ford dealer's lot outside of Boston Massachusetts waiting to be sold. And I would bet that if/when the car is sold the new owner will not be informed about the issues. I was tempted to get a CarFax report on the car to see if it had the information about the Cross Traffic Fault but did not want to waste my money.

 

Again, KandB document each and every fault that shows up, it will help you force Ford's hand on fixing or replacing the car.

[cjn-md]

KandB, Sorry to hear this is happened to you as well.
I agree the "fpliptak" you need to document each occurrence and be sure that you capture the mileage in the photo.
Please look up the lemon laws in your state to be sure you fully understand them and MEET the requirements in either repair attempts and/or days in the shop.
Be sure that the explanation if the issue is exact each time so the problem is listing in the service system the same and does not appear to be a "different" issue.

Please note that taking it in for a code read is not a service event unless they try to repair something. This is one fact I learned as I was taking me car in to have the code read each time the failure occurred as the dealer was on my way home each day. Knowing this now I would suggest you request they add a statement to the service record that repairs cannot be performed at this time do to lack of knowledge of root cause. Should you need arbitration this might help your case as well as this becomes part of the officall record.
If you PM me I will send you my VIN number so the service department can look up my car to see what they are up against.

Finally you should contact FORD customer care to open a case for you on the issue. The ealier the better so all the data is collected and so it can be escalated up FORD's food chain.
You must be your own advocate on this as FORD will not do the right thing unless they understand you are not going away and will not give up.

 

Charlie

Edited July 25, 2016 by cjn-md

[Automate]

Thanks, Automate. I had found Forscan and Torque, as well as the OBDLink MX. Problem was that I made little headway figuring out which unit was good enough without being overpriced. So now I know the OBDLink MX works, so I've ordered it from Amazon.

Torque Pro is good for creating custom dashboards but for troubleshooting problems FORScan is the way to go. Torque does not even check the MSCAN bus so it would never see the actual errors you are having.

[KandB]

Automate - good to know! I won't bother with Torque. The scanner is due tomorrow. I'm new to OBD scanners... I assume it is OK to plug it in while the car is running. Right?

 

fliptalk and Charlie - Thanks to both of you. I have photos of every dashboard alert (except the first one) and VHRs to back it up. I also have the service paperwork for each visit and a log of events, visits, and discussions. All of that is on paper and electronic (including scanned images of the paper)... so my doc is current and as complete as possible. I've got a copy of the Colorado lemon law and have review that so I know where we stand there. Colorado calls for 30 business days out of service or 4 visits for the same defect. I'm only at a couple of days out of service but we have 2 documented visits to the dealer at this point.

 

I haven't opened the Ford case yet but it is apparent that I need to do so. Charlie, I'll PM you but my daughter just rang the doorbell so I have to run.

 

I really appreciate you folks!

[murphy]

The OBD scanner must be removed to be able to run a VHR.

[Tim Stone]

I have read many of the comments here, and everything focuses on a sensor fault, or cabling problem. I'm thinking it may be a software issue.

 

I had this problem occur last weekend. Like so many others, I was in freeway traffic, and some of the people out there were rather crazy. The driver in front of me slowed, but I was able to do likewise and that would not normally be an issue. However, the car behind me was a few seconds longer and closed the distance between our vehicles. Behind him was another erratic driver who swung ride to the right ( onto the shoulder ), and then wide to the left ( almost colliding with a car to his side ).

 

With this serious of events, the collision alert system kicked in ( but I was well in control so no actual impacts ), and when I looked down, the cross traffic system fault displayed. I pressed the OK button on the left display and the message went away. Thereafter, with about 200 miles of driving in similar conditions, there were no problems.

 

Each one of the sensors triggers a software event. With multiple events occurring at the same time, my feeling is that the software isn't exactly sure what is the actual threat, and provides this alert. In other words, perhaps a multiple of sensed inputs confuses the software as written.

 

To fix this, Ford should take a serious look at the software controlling this alert system ( or maybe they already resolved it with changes in newer packages ) and then provide an update to owners.

 

If I'm right, it is relatively easy to resolve this at a cost far less than taking back vehicles.

 

Tim

[fpliptak]

Well it seems that my former vehicle has left the auction site in Massachusetts and is now at Zeck Ford in Leavenworth, Kansas. Verified by VIN. The auction site did note that the vehicle as a manufacturer buyback to the buyer. Also, CarFax also lists that the seller disclosed the Mfg buyback but the dealership (and CarFax)

 

AutoCheck has it listed a "No Manufacturer buyback/lemon title record"

 

CarFax has a red triangle at the top with an exclamation point with " Reacquired by manufacturer" BUT the title section indicates the title is clean (no lemon / no reacquire) but right under that there is another red triangle with an exclamation point with "This vehicle was listed at auction as a manufacturer buyback vehicle. This information was disclosed by the seller at time of sale."

 

I was told by a Ford dealer salesman that Ford does mark the tile of reacquired vehicles and notes whether the problem(s) has/have been corrected. This does not seem to be the case (at least according to both AutoCheck and CarFax).

 

At least the fact that it was a buyback is on the CarFax report but the number of visits to the dealership for repair is NOT listed on the CarFax or AutoCheck reports.

 

Would anyone from Ford care to comment on why the vehicle is back on the market without fair warning to the next owner? I am convinced the problem was temperature related and the last I knew it could get pretty cold in Kansas.