MPG "tanking" in the cold weather - others?

[DrewFM]

Half inch foam insulation fits well in the grille. Below is a pic of how I blocked the grille on the C-Max Energi for my parents. If you can get dark colored foam insulation it blends in quite well. I cut the pieces to fit the length of the opening and then also cut slits to fit around the vertical slats of the grille. You then crush the insulation flat and stick it in there. The pieces are very solid in there, but are easy to remove as needed when the temperature warms. The nice thing with foam insulation is that you can remove one piece at a time when the temp warms instead of having to remove all or nothing like you do with the plastic grille cover. Foam insulation is cheap too! I paid under $3 for the pack that I used to block the entire grille on the Energi.

 

I really like this idea. Sounds cheaper and easy. Thank HB

[MaineFusion]

Blocking the top grille will help, Ken. Even if the temp isn't below 0 the amount of time the FFH spends in EV mode has a big impact on temps. Watch the coolant gauge on MyView like Paul recommends. You'll see how in winter the temp gauge never makes it to the middle (>180F) when you have the heat on in winter. A cold ICE sucks down more fuel.

 

I did add the temp gauge to MyView and it is amazing how long it actually takes for my FFH to get to any type of temp that is useful for generating heat in the cabin. I'll be buying one of those grille covers after Christmas. Fortunately, between working from home and time off, I don't have to commute to my office until Jan 2nd. This means my weekly fuel consumption will be way down this next week or so.

[hybridbear]

 

I did add the temp gauge to MyView and it is amazing how long it actually takes for my FFH to get to any type of temp that is useful for generating heat in the cabin. I'll be buying one of those grille covers after Christmas. Fortunately, between working from home and time off, I don't have to commute to my office until Jan 2nd. This means my weekly fuel consumption will be way down this next week or so.

That's nice to work from home. Try the foam for grille blocking first. If you're consistently below freezing you can block all of the top grille and perhaps half of the bottom to start.

[MaineFusion]

That's nice to work from home. Try the foam for grille blocking first. If you're consistently below freezing you can block all of the top grille and perhaps half of the bottom to start.

Whatever I do, I don't want there to be any risk of it becoming litter along the side of they highway.

 

In the old days when I lived in Alaska, we'd just slip cardboard in front of the radiator for the winter. It at least made it possible to get enough heat into the cabin.

[hybridbear]

Whatever I do, I don't want there to be any risk of it becoming litter along the side of they highway.

 

In the old days when I lived in Alaska, we'd just slip cardboard in front of the radiator for the winter. It at least made it possible to get enough heat into the cabin.

The foam is very secure. It is squished between the grille slats and held tight against the internal slats that go vertically.

[corncobs]

In the old days when I lived in Alaska, we'd just slip cardboard in front of the radiator for the winter. It at least made it possible to get enough heat into the cabin.

The old fashion way I like it. My dad made one years ago with small round openings. Those where covered with another piece to regulate the temps just like on a weber grill.

Edited December 22, 2013 by corncobs

[B25Nut]

In 1990, I drove my dad to our family Christmas gathering in Denver in my brother's Dodge Caravan. Going through Utah, we hit -33 degree F temps. First, the transmission froze in third gear. It felt like we'd hit something on the highway. Then we quickly lost power and couldn't go faster than 10 mph. We turned round to go back to the town of Beaver. My dad knew the gas was freezing since he grew up in North Dakota. We spotted a big rig that was stopped going the other way with a service truck behind it. I stopped and ran across the median to see if he could help us. He gave us a can of gas anti-freeze. This got us to a motel. We started out at 5:00 the next morning but before we left my dad found a piece of cardboard that he put in front of the radiator. I thought that was a little weird (not unusual for my dad) but I just said "Well, if you think that will help". I had to push the van out of our parking space since it wouldn't go into reverse, but we made it to Denver with the only trouble being the climb up to the Eisenhower Tunnel. I could only do 20 mph by the time we got to the crest of the climb due to the transmission that had to be replaced before we could return home.

[lolder]

Make sure you put a placard on the instrument panel that says "GRILL COVER ON" or something like that so you don't forget it if the weather ever gets warmer again. ( 82º in FL today ).

Edited December 22, 2013 by lolder

[ptjones]

Whatever I do, I don't want there to be any risk of it becoming litter along the side of they highway.

In the old days when I lived in Alaska, we'd just slip cardboard in front of the radiator for the winter. It at least made it possible to get enough heat into the cabin.

IMO if you read your hand book the ICE is designed to protect itself, you can,t hurt it. I had my full Grill Covers on all year, but I do supply a summer cover also. I would guess that no one on this forum has seen the temp gauge above the middle of temp gauge, I have at 237 this summer in AZ and the temp still had away to go to the top white mark.

 

Foam is a good solution but IMO clear packing tape is more aerodynamic and cheaper. LEXAN Grill Covers appear to be the best long term solution.

 

Paul

Edited December 22, 2013 by ptjones

[acdii]

My FIL saw my grill cover and wondered what it was for, when he found out now he wants me to make one for his Cmax. Is the Cmax grill taller and narrower than the Fusions?

[lolder]

I'll say it again. There are two more radiators there for which you don't have a display of the temperature. Be careful.

[ptjones]

My FIL saw my grill cover and wondered what it was for, when he found out now he wants me to make one for his Cmax. Is the Cmax grill taller and narrower than the Fusions?

CMAX is slightly narrower and 3" shorter.

 

I'll say it again. There are two more radiators there for which you don't have a display of the temperature. Be careful.

There are three radiators AC, ICE& Inverter. AC doesn't matter, ICE has temp gauge and inverter has no sensor , apparently FORD felt it wasn't necessary. It would be nice if someone besides myself would their inverter cooling lines to show that they don't get hot. They are very easy to check on FFH, they are located at the bottom of radiator on right side. I have only felt warm lines.

 

Paul

[acdii]

I highly doubt that the inverter would ever got too hot in the winter, even with all EV driving. It takes a lot of electron flow to generate heat, and with the cooling system added in, it will take quite a bit of juice to get it hot enough to be damaged, IE a dead short.

 

Thanks for the info on the Cmax Grill, I can take the one I have on the bench and use it as a template then for his. Going to get the lexan for this and make me a new tighter one for my Fusion too now that I know it is a definite improvement.

 

 

BTW, had my car in the other day to fix the wiper pivot and not one mention of the grill cover. Besides, Semis have been using them for decades! I dont know if anyone has noticed, but the Prius has a tiny grill, about 1/8th the grill opening of the Fusion, and they never have cooling problems. There is also more open grill area on the 13 than the 10-12, which is probably why I never considered one for it. Then again, that one was rarely used in city driving, so never had to worry about going 60 MPH with the ICE off.

[hybridbear]

There are three radiators AC, ICE& Inverter. AC doesn't matter, ICE has temp gauge and inverter has no sensor , apparently FORD felt it wasn't necessary. It would be nice if someone besides myself would their inverter cooling lines to show that they don't get hot. They are very easy to check on FFH, they are located at the bottom of radiator on right side. I have only felt warm lines.

 

Paul

There is a temp sensor for inverter coolant. On the first gen FFH you could see the temp with an XGauge code. Ford changed the coding on the new ones so that the old code doesn't work. There is still a sensor though. If the electric parts get too hot they will shut down. Ford just doesn't allow owners to see this temp.

 

I highly doubt that the inverter would ever got too hot in the winter, even with all EV driving. It takes a lot of electron flow to generate heat, and with the cooling system added in, it will take quite a bit of juice to get it hot enough to be damaged, IE a dead short.

 

BTW, had my car in the other day to fix the wiper pivot and not one mention of the grill cover. Besides, Semis have been using them for decades! I dont know if anyone has noticed, but the Prius has a tiny grill, about 1/8th the grill opening of the Fusion, and they never have cooling problems. There is also more open grill area on the 13 than the 10-12, which is probably why I never considered one for it. Then again, that one was rarely used in city driving, so never had to worry about going 60 MPH with the ICE off.

The issues with temp for the hybrid components isn't that they'll get too hot from EV driving. They get hot because the ICE gets hot. The hybrid components are located right next to the ICE that is 180+ degrees F with a grille cover. The hybrid components work best around 70-80F. They want to stay around that temp in winter and summer. That's why the coolant constantly flows through the inverter radiator even when the temps are below freezing. The car cycles that coolant constantly to keep the computers as cool as possible. A makeshift test for checking the impact of the grille cover on hybrid component temps is to feel them after a long drive where the ICE got to 180+ degrees F. A few times after long drives in the FFH, I have stopped at home and popped the hood as soon as I shut off the car. After the few blocks of city driving after exiting the freeway the ICE coolant is maybe only 160-170F. The hybrid computer box has felt warm, but not over 90F in my estimation, same temp when feeling the coolant bottle for that system and the coolant lines. This is a little warmer than I would like.

 

I've done the same test in the Prius. The Prius warms up much faster than the FFH and reaches 190+ F coolant temp in 2-3 miles of freeway driving even with ambient temps of -10 F, this is with 100% grille blocking just like the FFH. Even after 20+ freeway miles at 190+F coolant temps the inverter box on the Prius is ice cold, as are the hybrid coolant tank and lines. I attribute this to the under hood design. The Prius hybrid computer box and tank are much farther away from the ICE than the FFH tank is. With the Prius eCVT design the ICE is situated lower than the FFH ICE.

 

I'm now debating removing the plastic cover from the bottom grille and using foam to block all but one row to see if that leads to cooler temps on the hybrid computer box and the hybrid coolant bottle. The issue is that the plastic cover was a beast to install on the lower grille and I don't really want to mess with it...

 

Also, what's the correct name for the "hybrid computer box"? I can't think of the correct name now...

[ptjones]

I'm ordering the Helm SVC Info CD ROM that will answer some of our questions. I have my SM request info on inverter operating temps. From FORD Tech's. I don't see inverter temps getting more than 20degrees above OT with radiator at bottom of ICE compartment.

 

Paul

[acdii]

This is why I left the lower grill alone and didn't make a replacement for what I sent you, I decided that covering the main grill should be more than adequate, and so far it has been with temps down to -11. I will be taking it off and adding foam behind it and remount it though for a better seal. With the lower grill being so small with the ACC panel blocking half of it, not really worth the time and effort. It is only about 24 square inches of opening.

[hybridbear]

This is why I left the lower grill alone and didn't make a replacement for what I sent you, I decided that covering the main grill should be more than adequate, and so far it has been with temps down to -11. I will be taking it off and adding foam behind it and remount it though for a better seal. With the lower grill being so small with the ACC panel blocking half of it, not really worth the time and effort. It is only about 24 square inches of opening.

Covering the lower grille added another 5C to the maximum coolant temp. It has also allowed for quicker warm up and slower cool down when parked.

 

I'm ordering the Helm SVC Info CD ROM that will answer some of our questions. I have my SM request info on inverter operating temps. From FORD Tech's. I don't see inverter temps getting more than 20degrees above OT with radiator at bottom of ICE compartment.

 

Paul

Please let us know what you find out...

[MaineFusion]

Well I've finally done it.

 

I just got finished installing the grill cover I bought from Paul. Our wicked cold sub-zero temps as of late convinced me I really needed a grill cover.

 

No photos yet because the car is in the garage and it is now dark out. Overall, the install went well and I like the bolt attachment Paul came up with. It is way better than using zip ties. The Velcro blocks at the ends seems like a good idea as well. I just have to see how well they stick to things.

 

 

Working in Maine's cold temps and limited light in my garage made the install slow going. First I had to clean the grill of all the dirt and grime. It has been a good three weeks since we've had decent enough weather to go to a car wash without ending up with a rolling Popsicle. One thing that Paul didn't mention on his instructions, that is a good idea, especially when it is cold, is to take a hair drier to any adhesive (e.g. Velcro and two sided tape) as well as any spot the adhesive is being adhered to so that it sticks properly. Making everything good and hot helps makes adhesive stick better.

 

An addition I made was to take five 1" thick XPS foam insulation and cut it into blocks that I wedged between the grill slats to hold the grill cover off the grill so that the grill doesn't get scratched. Because the foam was pink, I wrapped it in electrical tape to make it black. I threaded the bold Paul provided through one of the foam blocks and then spaced the other four blocks out to the outer most vertical slats that hold the grill in place.

 

The only issue I had was the grill cover was about 1/3" too long so it overshot the grill area and wanted to rub against the paint job. I simply used the summer grill Paul provided as a template and cut the winter grill down to size.

 

I don't commute to work until Tuesday, but I'll report back how much it improved things.

[ptjones]

I didn't think about the cool and tape not sticking as well, good Idea about the hair dryer. You've got me wondering about the size of grill cover in that I did try it out on Fusion at dealer. Glad you were able to make things work. Looking forward to seeing your results. :)

 

Paul

[wmpwi]

The verdict is in on my end anyway. MPG sucks when it's cold. I glanced down at my dash and the big blank area stood out because I wasn't used to seeing so much nothing where there used to be plant life. I have no major interest in quantifying how much my MPG is affected, but this picture kind of sums it up pretty well. I don't think you can get less than one leaf.

 

[acdii]

When its sub zero like it has been for 7 days here, I dont even bother looking anymore. Even my Flex is taking a huge hit, down to 17 MPG during this cold spell. -18 this morning.

[MaineFusion]

The grill cover has helped to stabilize cabin temps and at highway speeds my coolant temp no longer bounces up and down as the ICE kicks in and out. At low speeds where I can be in EV mode for longer periods the car is still having problems keeping the engine up to temp which means limited cabin heat. I really wish the FFH had an electric heater as the Energi does. When starting off in lower speed city driving, the FFH just can't get the ICE up to a temp sufficient to heat the cabin in near zero temps.

 

I also wish there was a little more insulation in the floorboards near the firewall where feet tend to rest. Those spots of the floor can get wicked cold when driving. Once I get the cabin up to some semblance of non fridge temp I turn all the air to the feet to warm them up.

[hybridbear]

I also wish there was a little more insulation in the floorboards near the firewall where feet tend to rest. Those spots of the floor can get wicked cold when driving. Once I get the cabin up to some semblance of non fridge temp I turn all the air to the feet to warm them up.

I've found pockets of cold air in the cabin too. There are a few spots on my legs that get very cold even with the heat on.

[MaineFusion]

I've found pockets of cold air in the cabin too. There are a few spots on my legs that get very cold even with the heat on.

 

Of course with this arctic blast we've been taking, I suspect a lot of normal ICE cars are also having a hard time heating the cabin as well. My wife says her Elantra isn't heating up so well. Maybe we're just spoiled and expect too much from our FFHs. ;)

[acdii]

The Fusion warms up a LOT faster than the Flex does when using remote start. Both cars can be started the same time, but the Fusion is pushing warm heat out the vents while the Flex is still blowing cold. My mom is in the hospital so one of us has to stay late to put the kids on the bus, my mom usually does it, so we are taking two cars every day this week. I am seeing a big impact in consumption from the constant sub zero temps, best I can get is around 17 in the Flex, while the Fusion is around 38(taking my wife's word I haven't looked).

 

I can see it on the instant gauge, it is much more difficult to get it to, let alone above, the 20 mark while cruising. It also takes a long time to warm the cabin up(it is huge though inside).

 

Has anyone noticed when you make a quick turn that you get a cold breeze in the car? There are pockets of cold air in the car, probably from the windows. I also have cold feet in the Fusion, and wind up switching the defrost on and off as we drive. If I turn up the blower then the ICE runs more, so its a compromise of temp vs MPG.