What should we do? Should we trade up for a nicer FFH?

[acdii]

Ah ha! This is what I thought I remembered from reading others' posts in the past. In your HyTi can you control climate with the steering wheel buttons & right screen or just view settings? In the C-Max SEL climate is an option for that right screen but I've never paid much attention to it in the Energi.

 

In the HyTi with Sony the heated seats are only controlled by the touch screen?

You can change the temp and fan settings from the right screen, but nothing else.

 

Yep, only on the MFT can you change the seat heaters. Only on the HyTi, on the SE they were on the center stack.

[corncobs]

Is the trim difference in how much can be controlled with the steering wheel buttons? Can ppl w/ loaded SE FFHs control the HVAC, Radio & Navigation with their right steering wheel buttons?

Yes the controls between SE and TI are different on the right dash screen. The SE doesn't have the control for the climate and nav like the TI does.

 

I guess I'm too late

Edited November 21, 2013 by corncobs

[acdii]

Se dos have nav controls, just missing the climate screen.

[Riggo]

Yep, that's the only thing I don't like, the seat heater "buttons" only being on the touch screen. It is a pain like acdii said to have to go back to the climate screen to adjust the seat heater settings. It would be nice if Ford added a voice command to adjust the seat heater settings.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Riggo

[KLH]

So, hybridbear, are you still leaning toward rebuying an SE?

[Aquineas]

I think repairing the entire front end will cost more than $500. Not just the bumper would need painting, but also the hood and both front quarter panels.

Well I guess I didn't realize the extent of the damage, but I had three panels repainted on my Genesis last year for about $1100.

[thavil]

If I didn't roll a huge amount into my current loan, I'd do what you are thinking about hybridbear. My dealer has a loaded '13 FFH SE with a MSRP of $35,000 for $29,000. All I have is the luxury package and nothing else but really want BLIS and ACC.

[hybridbear]

The dealership won't give as good a deal as I'd like to make it a no-brainer but they're close. They're willing to do a $10k difference after the Ford $1500 black Friday cash incentive. With the competitive lease conquest $1000 (since we leased a Prius when my wife started her new job a few months ago) that would put us at $9000 plus TTL in increase in our loan balance. TTL will be about $1000. If we can get a $750 Private Cash in addition to those other incentives and keep the total increase in our loan balance to $9000 or less then I'd definitely make the deal. If the loan increase is $9000-9500 then I'm on the fence. Above $9500 out the door cost then my answer is definitely "no". Our loan balance on our current FFH SE is under $5500. That's why my limit for this trade-up would be a $9500 out the door cost increase in our loan balance to keep the new loan under $15k. I really would like it to be under $14k, but that isn't happening.

Edited November 22, 2013 by hybridbear
fixing math typos

[hybridbear]

Here is their best offer:

• $34,982 new FFH SE (window sticker)
• ($1500) Ford Black Friday cash back
• ($1000) Ford Competitive Lease Conquest
• ($400) Private Cash - what happened to $750 Private Cash!!??
• ($22,982) trade-in of our 2013 FFH SE with 18,700 miles
• $927.75 Tax, title & license
• $9527.75 out the door cost in addition to our current FFH loan

That's $27.75 too high compared to what I posted above. I really was hoping to keep it under $9000, but that wasn't realistic. I will ask about getting rid of the Premium Floor mats and trunk cargo net and see if they'll knock $200 off for eliminating those items.

 

What does everyone think?? I am having them hold the car with a refundable $500 deposit. We will go on Monday or Tuesday evening to look and decide.

[SteveB_TX]

You really gonna let 28 bucks stop you from getting your dream Fusion? I say throw caution to the wind, keep your floor mats, and sign the deal! :)

Edited November 22, 2013 by SteveB_TX

[hybridbear]

You really gonna let 28 bucks stop you from getting your dream Fusion? I say throw caution to the wind, keep your floor mats, and sign the deal! :)

I wouldn't. But it's interesting how close they are... I'm also frugal. Not many 24-25 year old couples can drive two new cars like we do while not being enslaved to a job that pays well but burns you out. We don't make a lot of money, but we're very careful with how we spend the money we have. While things are going well now, you never know what tomorrow brings and I don't want to make a deal I regret later on.

 

I should comment too that while the price they are listing to sell the car is at least $500 over invoice they're willing to put the value of our trade at $600 above KBB value. The KBB trade-in value of our car in "excellent" condition is $22,391.

Edited November 22, 2013 by hybridbear

[kuzzi]

Not many 24-25 year old couples can drive two new cars like we do while not being enslaved to a job that pays well but burns you out.

 

I'm one of those getting burned out, but that's the industry I chose.

 

I have never regretted not getting any additional options on top of the bare minimum FFH Titanium features (it was very easy to order mine). However, I kick myself every time I see an MKZ hybrid, especially since the FFH has saved me nearly twice as much money as I calculated it would when I traded in the truck and I could have gotten a decently loaded Z.

 

I'm going to find out my options when I get my car back from the collision shop and the diminished value payment and see what it would take to get into a Z. (Would be amazing if they would do one in Bordeaux Reserve for me)

[hybridbear]

I'm one of those getting burned out, but that's the industry I chose.

 

I have never regretted not getting any additional options on top of the bare minimum FFH Titanium features (it was very easy to order mine). However, I kick myself every time I see an MKZ hybrid, especially since the FFH has saved me nearly twice as much money as I calculated it would when I traded in the truck and I could have gotten a decently loaded Z.

 

I'm going to find out my options when I get my car back from the collision shop and the diminished value payment and see what it would take to get into a Z. (Would be amazing if they would do one in Bordeaux Reserve for me)

That's not a bad idea to trade up for the MKZ. I hope your car comes back soon and well-repaired.

[Erik Strait]

I'm in the younger crowd too. It is quite nice to see others in the same boat. I work full time (biomedical research) and I also own a separate company on the side. Yes, I stay busy, but I have a lot of flexibility and still have time to enjoy life and travel. Young people that don't mind working for a living make me proud. I know far to many people that live off their parents and expect everything to be handed to them.

 

By what I have gathered, you deserve the 2014! :)

 

Thanks Erik

[kuzzi]

That's not a bad idea to trade up for the MKZ. I hope your car comes back soon and well-repaired.

 

In due time, haha. Collision place is taking good care of it and I should get it back before Thanksgiving.

[Erik Strait]

Also, It would be very nice to get the $1,500 black Friday deal. Mainly because everything I have seen and read says the 2014 Fusion only gets $500 off. I was only planning on receiving the $500 when I pick mine up, but certainly wouldn't complain with $1,500 instead!

 

Thanks Erik

[hybridbear]

Here's the full price breakdown I have calculated of the "real" depreciation on our car accounting for the feature differences:

 

Roseville Ford price $34,482.00

Ford incentive -$1,500.00

Ford incentive -$1,000.00

Ford incentive -$400.00

Trade-in value -$22,982.00

TTL $927.75

Job 2 Moonroof price ∆ -$100.00

White Plat Metallic -$595.00
Premium Floor Mats -$175.00

MFT Package -$895.00

Active Park Assist -$895.00

Adaptive Cruise -$995.00

Navigation -$795.00 18"

Luxury Wheels -$595.00

Driver Assist Package -$1,140.00

Trunk Cargo Net -$25.00

Real depreciation $3,317.75

 

This basically means that not including about $250 in interest paid on our loan and $335 in license tabs for 2014 our current car only lost $3317.75 in value over the 18,700 miles we drove it and 11 months that we've owned it. This counts the "value" of all the features, including the ones that we don't really care for or really want. We find value in all the features except the paint color and the larger wheels. Those two "features" will only cost us more money in the long run in more expensive tires and more expensive repairs to the body/paint.

 

If I only factor in the features that I really want then the table looks like this:

 

Roseville Ford price $34,482.00

Ford incentive -$1,500.00

Ford incentive -$1,000.00

Ford incentive -$400.00

Trade-in value -$22,982.00

TTL $927.75

MFT Package -$895.00

Adaptive Cruise -$995.00

Driver Assist Package -$1,140.00

Real depreciation $6,497.75

 

This is a harder sell to me. This means we're basically paying $6500 to get this new car with 0 miles and Job 2 perceived improved build quality/reliability. I am really curious to look at it in person and see if it has any of the same trim issues that we're having with our car.

Edited November 23, 2013 by hybridbear

[hybridbear]

Also, It would be very nice to get the $1,500 black Friday deal. Mainly because everything I have seen and read says the 2014 Fusion only gets $500 off. I was only planning on receiving the $500 when I pick mine up, but certainly wouldn't complain with $1,500 instead!

 

Thanks Erik

$1500 for 2013 FFHs, $500 for 2014 FFHs

[Erik Strait]

$1500 for 2013 FFHs, $500 for 2014 FFHs

 

$1,500 is awesome! Especially when you add in all the others.

 

Thanks Erik

[GrySql]

What happened while I was not paying attention for the last few days?

Still dealing?

[hybridbear]

Uncertainty...

More the issue now would be concern that we got a lemon. In the last week the Battery Saver messages have become a constant fixture when shutting off the car. I've also had sporadic warnings on the dash saying "Service AdvanceTrac" along with all the ABS/traction control lights illuminating. There have been a couple of times where I have started the car and the dash screens have remained black while the speedometer has lit up. And the MyFord center console screen has been freezing a lot and having glitches. The back up sensors have failed to make noise a few times even though the dash screen shows they're on, and other times they've made this horrible sounding scratchy noise instead of beeping.

All these issues tend to go away when I shut the car off and restart, but there has been one issue or another almost daily. This hopefully is all rectified with the replacement PCM. Total, including this trip, our car has spent 28 nights at the dealer in 11 months. The dealer still didn't install the new trim pieces, but at least they finally fixed the trunk squeak. The battery saver messages are not. When I put the key in leaving the dealer I got the BS msgs, when I got home I got it too as soon as I shut off the car. Pretty soon we could probably start pursuing a lemon law claim since the MN law calls for 30 days out of service in the first 18 months as the basis for lemon law. However, from what I've read of others' experiences, we likely wouldn't get hardly any more money than what we'll get on a trade-in and it's a lot of hours to make the claim. My time is more valuable than the potential gain from a lemon law process.

At this point, trading in the car for a replacement would be more out of concern over having a lemon and less about new features. It's a gamble of spending a little bit more now to get extra features and go back to 0 miles, but the desired payback that would make it worth it is getting 7+ years of largely problem free operation. Even if we bought an extended warranty for our FFH to cover the cost of those issues for 7 years, it still eats up a lot of time taking the car to the dealer all the time. The 28 nights that our car has spent at the dealer have been 9 different trips. Each trip is 32 extra miles on the FFH plus the miles driven by the dealer. By the time I add in the gas they waste it's at least 1 gallon of gas and 40 miles each trip. Considering that the most recent trip had me drive out to the dealer, sit around for an hour waiting for a car, then drive the FFH to work so that they could drive it back to the dealer that trip was close to 100 miles and 3 gallons based on my trip odometer pics.

So, these trips have all been outside of other dealer trips for oil changes, etc and have cost us 11 gallons of gas plus 420 miles extra on the car. Most of the rentals have only gotten about 20 MPG so the trip to & from the dealer in each rental is 1.5 gallons plus the additional gas burned getting 20 MPG instead of 50 MPG. Thus, each rental has cost us about an additional 2.5 gallons while driving it compared to the gas we would've burned in the FFH. So that means 4 gallons times 9 trips and we have 36 extra gallons of gas in rentals. That means the cost of these trips has been 47 extra gallons of gas and an extra 420 miles on the odometer of our FFH. 47 gallons of gas times $3.30/gal equals $155.10 in gas cost because of these issues.

Then add in the cost of my time. Each time dropping the car off at the dealer takes at least 1.5 hours round trip. Each time picking the car up takes about 1 hour round trip. 9 trips times 2.5 hours per trip equals 22.5 hours. Add in the extra hour spent on this most recent trip and we're at 23.5 hours. Add in all the hours I've spent calling the dealership to ask about when our car will be done, since they have never once called me, and we're realistically at about 27+ hours of my time lost to these issues. For example, when the PCM died on Wednesday, no one bothered to call me. My SA was off on Thursday, and no one called me. On Thursday I called the dealer to check on our car and was told that he was off and that no one else knew what was going on. On Friday I called to ask when our car would be done. I was put on hold while someone went to track him down. After spending about 15 minutes waiting on hold I gave up and called back. I was again put on hold while he was tracked down. After about 5 minutes waiting this time, the SA who answered told me that he was at lunch and that I should call back later. When I did finally reach him on Friday he told me that the PCM needed to be replaced. They ordered it on Wednesday, but didn't know when it would arrive. He hoped that it would arrive on Monday. He acted surprised that no one had called me on Thursday to tell me what was going on, and he apologized for not having called me on Wednesday. But, this is just one example of the headaches I've been dealing with on every trip to the dealer.

To buy an extended warranty from Flood Ford would run about $2000 to extend out to 7/100k. But that really shouldn't be needed if we have a reliable car, but would be needed if our lemony behavior continues with this car... I would expect that most issues should present themselves within the first 3/36k if they're factory defects. Then, between 3/36 and 7/100 the issues should be quite few and far between. Then once you get beyond 7/100 is when issues will likely arise. I don't feel there should be a need for a warranty to extend my bumper-to-bumper coverage out to 7/100 because the most expensive parts (ICE, MG1, MG2, eCVT, HVB, etc) are all covered either under the 5/60 powertrain warranty or the 8/100 hybrid warranty.

The concern about having a lemon is really what got me started in the first place at researching local inventory last week to see what was available. I figured that at the same time it would be nice to have more features. Until my wife reminded me of how much time I've lost to these issues I hadn't really looked at our car and gotten a bitter taste in my mouth. I love driving it too much. I'm emotionally attached to it... But, the more I think about it, the more I think that my time over the next 7 years is more valuable than the price difference to make this swap, provided that the white FFH would be more reliable.

I'm going to go look at the white FFH this afternoon. A big factor in our decision will be examining this FFH with a fine-toothed comb to see if it has the same trim/fit & finish issues. If it does, then we won't buy it and will instead likely buy an extended warranty for our FFH. The white FFH was built in the final 2 weeks of 2013 production, so it should have all the kinks worked out...hopefully!

The dealer is also not offering us a very good financing offer. Their "best" interest rate is almost 1% higher than what we are currently paying on the loan for our FFH. So, right now I'm waiting to hear back from a bank down the street from our apartment that is offering 1.75% on new auto loans. If they approve us then we will go that route if we decide to buy the white car. However, that adds a step to the process because we would have to go look at the car, make a decision, go get financing from the local bank and then go back to the dealer a different day. So, it's quite a bit of extra work.

[acdii]

From all your issues, I would look into replacing it too. I would make sure though that it was a Job2 or later build. So far(knock on wood), my Hyti has been problem free(other than a paint issue(resolved) and that damned trim piece popping up). Since your dealer that you got the car from is nothing like the one I work with, your best bet now is to shop around and find the best deal you can make.

 

You know what they say.

 

Been there

Done that

 

Still have the scars. However I have no regrets with the second FFH, it has been a great car so far, and will be so for a long time to come.

[Riggo]

From all your issues, I would look into replacing it too. I would make sure though that it was a Job2 or later build. So far(knock on wood), my Hyti has been problem free(other than a paint issue(resolved) and that damned trim piece popping up). Since your dealer that you got the car from is nothing like the one I work with, your best bet now is to shop around and find the best deal you can make.

 

You know what they say.

 

Been there

Done that

 

Still have the scars. However I have no regrets with the second FFH, it has been a great car so far, and will be so for a long time to come.

 

Mine is a Job 2 and I'm having the smell problem and a lot or rattles. So I'm not sure if Job 2 makes all that much difference.

[corncobs]

...but it sounds like it will be worth the piece of mind if you go for the white FFH.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[aaronj1159]

 

Mine is a Job 2 and I'm having the smell problem and a lot or rattles. So I'm not sure if Job 2 makes all that much difference.

Same here in both of those issues. I also get the battery saver message at times, but none of those other issues HB talked about.