ICE failed to start

[Sleddog]

On my drive home today, just after leaving work I got the pull over safely and stop messages(paraphrased). I leave work in EV mode with a low SOC. The ICE came on when I accelerated. After about 25 feet I let off the gas pedal and the car went back into EV mode. Shortly after that, I pressed on the go pedal and it felt like the ICE tried to start, I then got the pull over prompt safely prompt. The battery SOC was very low and no matter how far I pressed the gas pedal, the ICE would not come on.

 

I pulled over, stop and cycled the key. After that, the ICE operated normally. You would think the ICE would try to start multiple times before going into fail safe mode. I ran a vehicle health report and had no issues noted.

[Toz]

bad gas, air bubble, day ending in "y"? weird. Glad it didn't put you in danger or leave you stranded.

[jeff_h]

Glad you weren't put in a dangerous situation... sadly (but predictably?) the more cars are run by software, the more likely a Ctl-Alt-Del is needed.

[GrySql]

It is good a simple key recycle reset the system, as mentioned, like a computer.

That was smart to run a VHR, even if nothing was reported. With nothing reported I suppose the car is okay.

Wonder where someone could find info about that 'symptom' and it's cause.

[murphy]

In that situation I would enable engineering test mode when I first attempted to restart the car.

One of the displays in ET mode gives fault codes.

 

Push and hold the left OK button on the steering wheel before starting the car.

Watch the left display for the letters ET in yellow in the upper left corner of the display.

When they appear release the OK button.

The up and down buttons will scroll through the displays.

Push and hold OK again to turn ET mode off.

[hybridbear]

On my drive home today, just after leaving work I got the pull over safely and stop messages(paraphrased). I leave work in EV mode with a low SOC. The ICE came on when I accelerated. After about 25 feet I let off the gas pedal and the car went back into EV mode. Shortly after that, I pressed on the go pedal and it felt like the ICE tried to start, I then got the pull over prompt safely prompt. The battery SOC was very low and no matter how far I pressed the gas pedal, the ICE would not come on.

 

I pulled over, stop and cycled the key. After that, the ICE operated normally. You would think the ICE would try to start multiple times before going into fail safe mode. I ran a vehicle health report and had no issues noted.

I was also going to suggest ET Mode, glad to see that someone else thought of it too.

 

When the ICE wouldn't come on and you stepped on the accelerator, did the car accelerate in EV mode?

 

It's surprising that the ICE would turn off so quickly too when you first started the car and it's cold. Even in the summertime it would usually take at least a minute of ICE run-time before it would shut off the first time after all day sitting parked. Even when the engine is warm the ICE will run longer on the first restart due to emissions checks and other things. On the Prius this procedure is described as "idle check" I believe and our cars do the same basic thing.

 

I wonder what would have happened if you had run the VHR before cycling the key on and off.

[Sleddog]

The SOC was very low. It would accelerate slightly, but just enough to move me off the road, may be 10 MPH. I was pulling way from a stop making a right hand turn when it happened. If it happens again, fingers crossed that it won't, I'll will put it in ET mode when I cycle the key and see what I can find out. I should have run the VHR while the issue was happening. But the with the SOC so low I think the car may have shutdown if I waited any longer. But I will try that also. Time to make a note and keep it handy.

[DeeCee]

Had something similar happen to me a few months ago. My best guess is that I was in a hurry and put the car in gear and started to drive before the "Ready to Drive" notice came on. I had to pull over and shut down and restart the car and all was well. Not brave enough to try it again to be sure that was the cause.

[2013 Ice Storm]

We don't have the Engeri Hybrid, just a stock 2013 Fusion Hybrid Titanium. Bought at the end of Aug., 2013. It now has 8,600 miles on it.

We had this problem start at about 6,800 miles. Car would start, back out of the driveway, go forward about 100 feet and then the warning came on the dash to pull over right away. Wait a couple min & restart no problem for another 100-200 feet. Restart the car and all if fine. No problems for a week or two, then the problem returns. Takes more tries to restart the car. Longer wait time before trying the restart. As long as 5 min. No trouble again for 3 weeks, then it happens again. This time the check engine light comes on also. Get the car restarted. Drive for 2 days, no problem but check engine light still on. Next day get in car to head home and to the dealer, no check engine light. Leave at dealer.

They do a full diagnostics, software update, but find no problems. Could not get a code from the check engine light. Dealer could not get the car to act up. So we take it home and all is fine for the last few days. But last night it happened again, and this time would not restart. So had it towed to the dealer. They were closed and won't get to look at it until Monday am.

 

I don't know what all checks you all are referring to. ET, VAR, and what is ICE?

 

We are going crazy trying to figure this out. Maybe this time the dealer will find something.

 

Bottom line, it seams like the gas engine is not starting, and the car can't power itself on just the battery.

 

Anyone have ideas?

[lolder]

Don't take it back unless they change something and start a log of the repair attempts. Request higher involvement from Ford.

Edited December 16, 2013 by lolder

[murphy]

ET - Engineering Test mode

ICE - Internal Combustion Engine

[hybridbear]

We don't have the Engeri Hybrid, just a stock 2013 Fusion Hybrid Titanium. Bought at the end of Aug., 2013. It now has 8,600 miles on it.

We had this problem start at about 6,800 miles. Car would start, back out of the driveway, go forward about 100 feet and then the warning came on the dash to pull over right away. Wait a couple min & restart no problem for another 100-200 feet. Restart the car and all if fine. No problems for a week or two, then the problem returns. Takes more tries to restart the car. Longer wait time before trying the restart. As long as 5 min. No trouble again for 3 weeks, then it happens again. This time the check engine light comes on also. Get the car restarted. Drive for 2 days, no problem but check engine light still on. Next day get in car to head home and to the dealer, no check engine light. Leave at dealer.

They do a full diagnostics, software update, but find no problems. Could not get a code from the check engine light. Dealer could not get the car to act up. So we take it home and all is fine for the last few days. But last night it happened again, and this time would not restart. So had it towed to the dealer. They were closed and won't get to look at it until Monday am.

 

I don't know what all checks you all are referring to. ET, VAR, and what is ICE?

 

We are going crazy trying to figure this out. Maybe this time the dealer will find something.

 

Bottom line, it seams like the gas engine is not starting, and the car can't power itself on just the battery.

 

Anyone have ideas?

VHR - Vehicle Health Report. It's important to run one of these whenever you have a warning light because it documents the warning light. Did the salesman setup your Sync My Ride account when you bought your car? Part of their delivery process is supposed to be helping the customer setup their Sync account and showing them how to run a VHR.

 

Engineering Test Mode contains stored error codes. Read more here.

Edited December 16, 2013 by hybridbear

[2013 Ice Storm]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!! Fuel Pump Relay. (we'll see).

 

The car would not start for the dealer after sitting in their parking lot over the weekend. So that helped.

 

According to the paper work, They preformed a EEC system diagnostics "Quick Test" then they repeated the test. Then a EEC system diagnostic "Pin Point Test"

 

Bottom of the paperwork says that they preformed self testing and received......... DTC U0109 PCM for "Communication failure with fuel pump control module.

 

Then they preformed diagnostic pinpoint and found......... Faulty Fuel Pump Relay

 

So Fuel Pump Relay was replaced, all codes reset, and retested. All good now.

 

So this problem showed up at 6,800 miles. Has been intermittent until now. Car has 8,500 miles on it. Bought it at the end of Aug., 2013. So 3 1/2 months old.

At the first sign of this problem I would take your car to the dealer and relay this information to them. This can save you a lot of grief!!!

[Sleddog]

Glad you got it fixed. I have not had it happen again. The diagnostic works great if they can troubleshoot it when it happens. But for those of us who have had an intermittent failure, or who have had it happen once, I don't think the dealer will just replace the fuel pump relay without some type of troubleshooting. I had no codes and a key reset took care of it. But I will keep this in mind if i have an issue again.

[lolder]

This shows how much monitoring of all the systems goes on. It didn't just quit because of no fuel, the system knew there was a problem with turning the fuel pump on. This is pretty new to automotive design. I still wonder if the DTC wasn't stored from the first problems or that they didn't know how to retrieve them. I suspect the latter. The 2010-12 models had a couple of reports where service departments discovered there was more than one location to check for DTCs and in fact they had been stored when the problems first occured. As these cars age, hopefully these systems will improve maintenance. The dealers seem to need a little ( lot ) more training. They must get away from the old excuse "could not duplicate" and give the car back to you.

There was considerable discussion on another FFH forum back in 2009-10 whether the traditionally mediocre performance of US dealer service departments would be the fly in the ointment in the success of these vehicles. I don't know if the issue is resolved yet. Ford and others have a huge stake in this but the independant nature of dealers limits what the manufacturer can do.

Edited December 17, 2013 by lolder

[acdii]

They are no longer Mechanics, now they need to be automotive technicians, and have a computer based background to repair cars now. They have gone from points and dwell to bits and bytes. It used to be the most complicated part of the car was the automatic transmission, now even the door locks are computer controlled.

 

I have been saying this for a while now, if there ever comes a time where computers fail globally, people will be so screwed! Everything now depends on a computer, from your phones to your cars. One of the things I am doing with my kids is to make sure they dont get dysfunctional by relying on a computer. At least when they grow up and if anything were to happen(think that show revolution), and you no longer had computers and cars that need them, how they could survive. The generation that built this country is, or nearly is gone, we have gone from a manufacturing skill set to a service oriented skill set. The former required thinking and doing with your hands, the latter reading off scripts and typing information.

 

I did something the other day I havent done in a long time. Turned off the TV, computers, phone and sat down and read a real book, one printed on paper. It was so peaceful, I had a great Nap that day.

 

Where am I going with this you wonder. No where really, just pointing out how much everything relies on computers, and if you dont know how they work, well, things wont get fixed when they break. Seems like that is how the service bays are these days, they really have no clue how to troubleshoot bits and bytes.

[2013 Ice Storm]

So true. The cars I had growing up, I could have fixed myself in the driveway. Not now.

[hermans]

So true. The cars I had growing up, I could have fixed myself in the driveway. Not now.

I used to build and hotrod tri-5 Chevys in my youth. You are right, can't do that with today's cars.

[acdii]

When I had my F350 and drove it daily, I wanted to mod it out. It uses electronic injectors, and after pricing out Stage 2 injectors, that $3500 price tag just for the injectors put an end to that. I did mod it out a little, I added a Cold Air Intake from AEM, a 5" exhaust, and an 80 HP programmed PCM. Being that is was an early 99(built in 98), it had a Powerstroke with forged rods, so it could handle a TON of HP. The block and heads could have easily handled twin turbos and stage 3 injectors, but the cost was just outrageous. The hike in diesel fuel put an end permanently to that truck for me though.

 

Prior to that my only modded car was a 1979 Ford LTD wagon. I loved that car, it was the perfect sleeper. 5.0 V8 blueprinted. I ran it with a 2 barrel Motorcraft carb and stock ignition, but had a good cam in it. It easily launched hard and hit 130MPH. It looked like crap inside and out, but man could that car haul. The only electronics on that car was the little box on the fender that drove the ignition. It consisted of three parts, the module in the distributor, the box on the fender and the coil. It was easy to diagnose, you stuck a paperclip in two sockets and read the flashes on the dash.

 

I had a 1992 Crown Vic that was more complex, but was still easy to diagnose, had fuel injection, and a PCM, but you still diagnosed it with a jumper and flashing dash light, but there was a scan tool, which I still have, and a breakout box, which I also still have, for diagnosing the system.

 

Todays cars, you need a laptop with special software to diagnose them.

 

Anyone remember the big Sun machines used for diagnosing engine troubles? I used to be able to work one of those too. It had an ignition scope that would show the spark off each plug like an oscilloscope.