It's pretty clear why more hybrids aren't being sold

[acdii]

Waldo is correct, specifically the battery packs, only so many can be manufactured, though the amount of them has increased quite a bit in the past few years as more manufacturing has ramped up thanks to Toyota and Ford. There is also line capacity for the Fusion/MKZ, Ford can only produce so many cars, even with a 3 shift rotation 7 days a week. Given a few more years of Lion production then the supply/demand will even out and more hybrids can be produced.

 

What surprises me is the removal of the Escape Hybrid, I thought it was a decent seller and did pretty good.

[Waldo]

Waldo is correct, specifically the battery packs, only so many can be manufactured, though the amount of them has increased quite a bit in the past few years as more manufacturing has ramped up thanks to Toyota and Ford. There is also line capacity for the Fusion/MKZ, Ford can only produce so many cars, even with a 3 shift rotation 7 days a week. Given a few more years of Lion production then the supply/demand will even out and more hybrids can be produced.

 

What surprises me is the removal of the Escape Hybrid, I thought it was a decent seller and did pretty good.

 

It's all about balancing volumes. Ford probably figured they could run Louisville to max capacity without the Escape hybrid (which has proven to be true) so it's better to use the limited supply of hybrid parts in a product line that has some extra capacity available. There's probably also some balancing of CAFE and emissions credits as well; things have changed in the last few years with regards to the way cars vs trucks are classified and maybe it works in Ford's favor to have all the hybrids in the car class.

[hybridbear]

I'm not so sure about the assembly line limiting hybrids...Ford added Flat Rock production for gas Fusions and has not hit their sales targets necessary to use their full production capacity. If Ford wanted to sell more hybrids they could dedicate more time to their production at Hermosillo. Ford is making many of the hybrid components in house now so they also control that production.

 

What I'd really like to know is the gross margin on each trim and on each extra. My guess is that the gross margin on a 2.5L Fusion SE or on a 2.0L Titanium or a 1.6L Ecoboost is better than the gross margin on the FFH. Even though the margin for the FFH would improve with more volume, Ford might not want to push it because it would mean lower short term profits.

 

The company I work for does manufacturing. A constant focus is shifting the production mix to higher profit products. If we have a product line that currently has high production costs and small margins because it's a low volume line we aren't going to voluntarily produce high volumes of that product to increase the margin because it would mean lower profits overall. Even if a customer wanted that product line the sales reps would try to encourage them to shift to a different product where we make a higher margin. Ford doesn't have buyers lined up with reservations committing to buy hybrids, so why would they produce more of them at a lower margin and less profits when they aren't even sure they could sell them...

 

That's my theory...

[dalesky]

I'm not so sure about the assembly line limiting hybrids...Ford added Flat Rock production for gas Fusions and has not hit their sales targets necessary to use their full production capacity. If Ford wanted to sell more hybrids they could dedicate more time to their production at Hermosillo. Ford is making many of the hybrid components in house now so they also control that production.

 

What I'd really like to know is the gross margin on each trim and on each extra. My guess is that the gross margin on a 2.5L Fusion SE or on a 2.0L Titanium or a 1.6L Ecoboost is better than the gross margin on the FFH. Even though the margin for the FFH would improve with more volume, Ford might not want to push it because it would mean lower short term profits.

 

The company I work for does manufacturing. A constant focus is shifting the production mix to higher profit products. If we have a product line that currently has high production costs and small margins because it's a low volume line we aren't going to voluntarily produce high volumes of that product to increase the margin because it would mean lower profits overall. Even if a customer wanted that product line the sales reps would try to encourage them to shift to a different product where we make a higher margin. Ford doesn't have buyers lined up with reservations committing to buy hybrids, so why would they produce more of them at a lower margin and less profits when they aren't even sure they could sell them...

 

That's my theory...

One posible reason for why Ford would produce more of a lower margin vehicle is to secure future sales of their other vehicles. That's the reason small and cheap entry level cars are made, to draw customers into the fold, then upsell them with more expensive cars. With hybrids there may be some thoughts along that line, and maybe to help their CAFE mix as well. Ford is showing a large gain in profits this year. They seem to be doing well. Here's a quote from a recent news article:

 

Ford Motor Co. (NYSE:F) on Monday revealed its first 2013 sales numbers, saying it widened its lead against Toyota as the top-selling auto brand in the U.S. As of November, Ford was beating Toyota by 396,041 units for the year with 2.20 million Ford vehicles sales, a 12.3 percent jump from 1.96 million sold in 2012. The F-Series pickup truck will continue to be the best-selling vehicle in the U.S., as it has been every year since 1981. At the same time, Ford says its Escape compact crossover, which had its best year since the vehicle was introduced in 1999, helped lift total utility-vehicle sales by 10 percent. The Explorer is turning out to be the best-selling midsized SUV in the U.S. for 2013. The Fusion midsized sedan, introduced in 2006, and the Fiesta mini, which debuted in 1976, both set sales records this year.

[acdii]

600,000 F series trucks sold is not a small number either.

[hybridbear]

One possible reason for why Ford would produce more of a lower margin vehicle is to secure future sales of their other vehicles. That's the reason small and cheap entry level cars are made, to draw customers into the fold, then up-sell them with more expensive cars. With hybrids there may be some thoughts along that line, and maybe to help their CAFE mix as well. Ford is showing a large gain in profits this year. They seem to be doing well.

You're correct. I haven't researched how CAFE numbers are calculated but I believe it relates to vehicles sold and not just vehicles offered. I hope Ford makes hybrids an emphasis like Toyota is doing.

 

Including pickups, Lexus, everything, Toyota is on pace to sell about 2.23 million vehicles this year. Of that 2.3 million they will sell about 238k Priuses (including the C, V & PHEV). They will sell about 45k Camry Hybrids, 17k Avalon hybrids, 5k Highlander hybrids, 16k Lexus ES hybrids (like :baby: bought), 15k CT hybrids, 10.5k RX450h hybrids and about 1k other miscellaneous hybrids. That totals about 347.5k hybrid sales. That equals 15.6% of all Toyota/Lexus vehicles sold in the US are hybrids. I extrapolated these numbers from Toyota press releases and hybridcars.com's dashboards.

 

Ford can claim that 13.3% of their sedan/car sales are hybrids, but Toyota can claim that 15.6% of all vehicles they sell in the US, including trucks, SUVs & minivans, are hybrids. That is impressive. At those volumes, especially the Prius accounting for over 10% of their entire sales volume, you can be sure that their margins are pretty good.

 

I don't think highly of Toyota as a company in other areas, but I really respect the approach they have taken to make hybrids more mainstream and their dedication to hybrids. In Japan, Toyota sells hybrid minivans and more and I believe an even higher proportion of their total sales are electrified. Around the world Toyota says that 16% of all vehicles they sell are hybrids. For them to get to 16% worldwide with 15.6% in the US there must be some big market with a higher percent of hybrid sales, I doubt it's Europe so I'm guessing that it's Japan. I hope that soon Ford can boast the same thing. And Honda too, for that matter.

[dalesky]

You're correct. I haven't researched how CAFE numbers are calculated but I believe it relates to vehicles sold and not just vehicles offered. I hope Ford makes hybrids an emphasis like Toyota is doing.

 

Including pickups, Lexus, everything, Toyota is on pace to sell about 2.23 million vehicles this year. Of that 2.3 million they will sell about 238k Priuses (including the C, V & PHEV). They will sell about 45k Camry Hybrids, 17k Avalon hybrids, 5k Highlander hybrids, 16k Lexus ES hybrids (like :baby: bought), 15k CT hybrids, 10.5k RX450h hybrids and about 1k other miscellaneous hybrids. That totals about 347.5k hybrid sales. That equals 15.6% of all Toyota/Lexus vehicles sold in the US are hybrids. I extrapolated these numbers from Toyota press releases and hybridcars.com's dashboards.

 

Ford can claim that 13.3% of their sedan/car sales are hybrids, but Toyota can claim that 15.6% of all vehicles they sell in the US, including trucks, SUVs & minivans, are hybrids. That is impressive. At those volumes, especially the Prius accounting for over 10% of their entire sales volume, you can be sure that their margins are pretty good.

 

I don't think highly of Toyota as a company in other areas, but I really respect the approach they have taken to make hybrids more mainstream and their dedication to hybrids. In Japan, Toyota sells hybrid minivans and more and I believe an even higher proportion of their total sales are electrified. Around the world Toyota says that 16% of all vehicles they sell are hybrids. For them to get to 16% worldwide with 15.6% in the US there must be some big market with a higher percent of hybrid sales, I doubt it's Europe so I'm guessing that it's Japan. I hope that soon Ford can boast the same thing. And Honda too, for that matter.

I have not seen many hybrids, especially the Prius, except for Barcelona in various cities in Europe. The places I have travelled to in Italy the last couple of years have diesel cars, even the very occasional mini van. Honda van and Jeep both are made in diesel configurations.

[acdii]

If you want to put a spin on it(like our lovely media does), Ford is the Top, #1 seller of all hybrids sold by an American car company(GM and Chrysler combined).

[corncobs]

I have not seen many hybrids, especially the Prius, except for Barcelona in various cities in Europe. The places I have travelled to in Italy the last couple of years have diesel cars, even the very occasional mini van. Honda van and Jeep both are made in diesel configurations.

Same here you see an occasional Prius but not too many other hybrids. Over here it's really the diesel as the fuel economy vehicle. It will be interesting to see how Ford will do with the FFH once it hits the showrooms a year from now.

[hybridbear]

Same here you see an occasional Prius but not too many other hybrids. Over here it's really the diesel as the fuel economy vehicle. It will be interesting to see how Ford will do with the FFH once it hits the showrooms a year from now.

Is Ford going to sell a hybrid Mondeo in Europe? I know they plan to put the 1.0L Ecoboost in the Mondeo and many diesel options...

[corncobs]

Is Ford going to sell a hybrid Mondeo in Europe? I know they plan to put the 1.0L Ecoboost in the Mondeo and many diesel options...

Yes that's the plan including the Energi IIRC. I remember reading some comments about 21 mile full electric capabilities for the Energi which most of the commenters didn't get that it will than switch to hybrid mode. Ford already sell the Focus Electric for a year or so.

[inco]

I can think of another reason. If you can't deliver them after they have been built you might have a problem!
I have been told by the dealer that my vehicle arrived on the train in Wayne on Dec. 12th. We'll after checking today it's still there on the train! Maybe its too cold and won't come out!

Edited January 3, 2014 by inco

[dalesky]

I can think of another reason. If you can't deliver them after they have been built you might have a problem!

I have told by the dealer that my vehicle arrived on the train in Wayne on Dec. 12th. We'll after checking today it's still there on the train! Maybe its too cold and won't come out!

Yeah, if it were me I wouldn't want to travel to Ontario right now either! haha no offense

[acdii]

Hey Ontario, take back your weather, it aint supposed to be -25 here!!! :) It was so cold even the car had shivers.

[inco]

As I write it is -26 here and don't even think about asking for the wind chill number.....it's so low I freeze up thinking about it. :headspin:

 

However our service rep person on here is on a mission today to find out why my car is still there and I'm sure I'm not alone. There is usually more than one car in a rail car, so others must also be waiting. I guess it points to the popularity of the vehicle in that there must be lots of them shipped and also waiting to be unloaded. I wonder how many will cancel because of this.

 

From Dec 12 until today is a long time to have a car stuck on a train, but maybe there are labour issues ( too cold to work? :) ) or there are hundreds of rail cars also sitting full. I'm a patient person, but one who still likes to know waz up. :drop:

Edited January 3, 2014 by inco

[acdii]

It took longer to get my car 80 miles from the rail yard than it did to get to the rail yard from Mexico. Car was built in 8 weeks and took 3 weeks to deliver, 2 of those were 80 miles away.

[inco]

I'm confused here - are you bragging, or complaining? :ohsnap: :hysterical:

[acdii]

Ha

Ha

 

Just giving an example. This was in June though, so no snow to deal with, or cold, or rowdy union workers who dont want to work in the cold.