Danielg280 Report post Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Hi all, I'd love some thoughts on this. Running the numbers I got from the dealer yesterday, when you factor in the higher discounts from Ford, the tax rebate, and the 0% financing, I can get a 2013 Fusion Energi for the same price as a similarly equipped 2013 Fusion Hybrid. However, 3/4 of my yearly miles will be driven on my 75 mile commute to work (150 miles round trip), with likely no ability to recharge at work, so I'm thinking the percentage of time that i'll be running on electric will be pretty small. This is where the question comes in. Is it really true that the Energi running in hybrid mode gets 10% lower MPG than a regular Fusion hybrid? (as you know, Hybrid rated at 47mpg, energi running in hybrid mode rated at 43) If so, then I may actually be worse off from a fuel usage perspective with the Energi. However, after reading all the recent articles about how MPG is reported, I'm wondering if there really is much of a difference, or whether it relates to how Ford chose (or was required) to report the MPG figures. I would welcome thoughts on that, or any other thoughts on which direction I should go, given the fact the two vehcicles will effectively cost the same. Thanks Edited August 18, 2013 by Danielg280 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_h Report post Posted August 18, 2013 Out of curiosity (purely curiosity since I have a whole lot of payments left), I keep an eye on how the Energis and Hybrids are selling by the dealer chain where I bought my hybrid. From this limited view, the hybrids are selling well but the Energis are not so much, at least in my area -- too much of a price hike for the Energi I suppose. BUT, if I didn't have all those car payments still to go, there is a 2013 Fusion Energi advertised at $8,000 off MSRP that I would have bought by now. So yeah you can get pricing similar to the hybrids in some places, and with the $3,751 fed tax credit I would say that if a person could afford one they should go for it due to the knocked-down price plus tax credit, IMHO. About the MPG difference - when we take my wife's Energi somewhere and set the cruise on 65 or 70, the MPG for the trip are normally low 40s (just like sticker), however on a couple they've been higher 40s and that is just setting the cruise and going. So good luck on your search! 2 corncobs and hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted August 19, 2013 If you can live with the smaller trunk in the Energi and they cost about the same then by all means get the Energi. The 21 or so mile electric range will allow you to drive in all electric in the city in the Twin Cities before you hit the freeway and in Rochester once you exit hwy 52. Considering that operating an Energi in EV mode costs my parents less than half what it costs them to drive their Energi in hybrid mode there will be savings on those sections of your commute. In an Energi you'll also be able to precondition the car while plugged in to the wall so you get into a warm car in the winter and a cool car in the summer. This will help improve your winter fuel economy because you will be more likely to get by without turning the heat on until you get on the freeway and get the ICE running anyway. You'll also be able to save the inefficient warm up period for after you get on the highway. We've found that the first 1 mile or so in the hybrid is typically 20 MPG or under because the ICE is running extra to get the emissions components warmed up. If you have an Energi you can drive the city portion in EV mode and then not let the ICE turn on the first time until you're accelerating onto the freeway which will be much more efficient. 1 corncobs reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted August 19, 2013 It seems like the FFE in hybrid mode on the highway doesn't do hardly any worse than the FFH. The window sticker difference has to do with the EPA rules. As we've learned from the C-Max recent changes, the EPA rules have manufacturers test the higher volume car when two or more cars have the same powertrain. Ford thus used the FFH to get MPG sticker values for both the FFH & the C-Max since the FFH is the higher volume car. For the Energi models they tested the C-Max Energi and used those values for both Energi models. This means that FFE owners should more easily beat the EPA sticker ratings than C-Max Energi owners do because the FFE has a lower drage coefficient and will be sleeker on the highway. The real benefit of the Energi for you would be in the short distance driving you do around the Metro on weekends or the other 2 weekdays that you don't drive to Rochester. 2 corncobs and jeff_h reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apm Report post Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Hi, My view may be a bit biased because I own an Energi...Most of my driving is in EV mode, but every once I'm a while I have a long trip. Just this past weekend I drove almost 132 miles to Key Largo round trip. Here is the trip information from MyFord Mobile: Trip: 62.7 miles Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 Completed 8:29 PMEnergy3.8kWhTotal Amount UsedEV Miles31.1 milesFuel Economy52 MPGe0.8 miles from Regen!50% EV Trip: 3.9 miles Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 Completed 6:16 PMEnergy0.8kWhTotal Amount UsedEV Miles2.7 milesFuel Econmy52 MPGe0.5 miles from Regen!69% EV Trip: 65.2 miles Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 Completed 3:35 PMEnergy0.6kWhTotal Amount UsedEV Miles24.9 milesFuel Economy44 MPGe1.2 miles from Regen!38%EV Note that the numbers beeing tracked are MPGe, not MPG. It was fairly hot during the entire trip, so the AC was on at about 73 degrees. I used less than 1/4 tank of gas for this whole round trip, plus the entire energy in the big battery (5.2kWh). Hope this helps! Regards,APM Edited August 19, 2013 by apm 2 hybridbear and corncobs reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danielg280 Report post Posted August 20, 2013 Thanks everyone. Very helpful info! I'm leaning pretty heavily towards the Titanium Energi. However, I ran the VIN on the one that is being offered at price parity with the Hybrids and it has an early March build date, and I think has been sitting on the dealer's lot for quite some time (hence the big discount). So I'm having a little bit of cold feet about that one, vs. a more recently Titanium Hybrid. . . . . I'm going to go drive it this week and see if I see any red flags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
47Minutes Report post Posted August 20, 2013 I am regularly getting 60+ MPG on segments of my commute running the car as a Hybrid. This is pretty much 90% Hwy. My most recent tank of gas came to 72MPG. That is huge upswing from my most recent ones and my best tank since getting the car in March. I attribute this to my wife not being in/driving the car lately causing additional drain on HVB via climate control and not being so late everywhere we go that I have to run at 75mph. I am fortunately to have a Hwy speed limit of 60mph. So set Eco Cruise at 60 and go. This is on a ~46 mile round trip commute. If I had to run at 70+ mph just to be at the speed limit, I know these numbers would drop noticeably. 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldo Report post Posted August 20, 2013 The Energi has a much heavier battery than the Hybrid. Moving that battery around requires energy. If you're not able to plug in very often, then the loss of carrying around that big heavy battery will outweigh any savings of running in EV mode. It all depends on the ratio of plug-in vs hybrid driving that you will see. I've often wondered if it wouldn't be possible to buy the Energi, get the tax credit, then swap in a regular Hybrid battery and sell the Energi battery. Seems like there might be a profit to be had there, if you can find a way to get a good price for the battery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted August 20, 2013 Thanks everyone. Very helpful info! I'm leaning pretty heavily towards the Titanium Energi. However, I ran the VIN on the one that is being offered at price parity with the Hybrids and it has an early March build date, and I think has been sitting on the dealer's lot for quite some time (hence the big discount). So I'm having a little bit of cold feet about that one, vs. a more recently Titanium Hybrid. . . . . I'm going to go drive it this week and see if I see any red flags I'm curious which dealer has an Energi that's been sitting around so long...most have been selling really fast around here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apm Report post Posted August 20, 2013 I don't think the Energi's are selling all that well here in the South Florida area. The dealer where I purchased mine has 4 including the one I ordered back in February and was built on April 1st. Regards,APM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted August 22, 2013 I found out someone at that other site has an Energi and discovered the battery pack can be fully charged without plugging in if you are going down a long grade. I always wondered if it was possible to regen enough to charge the entire pack. I think he said he got 20 miles back by the time he reached level ground. 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldo Report post Posted August 22, 2013 I found out someone at that other site has an Energi and discovered the battery pack can be fully charged without plugging in if you are going down a long grade. I always wondered if it was possible to regen enough to charge the entire pack. I think he said he got 20 miles back by the time he reached level ground. How does that make any sense? The energy recovered from going downhill must equal the energy used to drive 20 miles. That would mean that if you put it in neutral and coasted down the hill, you'd keep rolling for 20 miles after you got to the bottom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_h Report post Posted August 22, 2013 I found out someone at that other site has an Energi and discovered the battery pack can be fully charged without plugging in if you are going down a long grade. I always wondered if it was possible to regen enough to charge the entire pack. I think he said he got 20 miles back by the time he reached level ground. I made a post like this on the Energi forum, based on a trip we took a few weeks ago that had a long uphill going up the mountain (the main HVB was long-since gone, was on hybrid mode) and then through regen on the long downhill I got up to 9 miles... this was going up and over the mountain in Shenandoah National Park and got up to 9 miles, I used to live in Colorado and those mountains dwarf the Appalachians, so I think a person should easily be able regen back up to full HVB in those circumstances. http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1179-once-the-charged-hvb-is-drained-its-stuck-in-hybrid-mode-not-really/ 2 hybridbear and acdii reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted August 26, 2013 I was curious on if the Regen could recharge the entire pack on a long downhill. So question answered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TX NRG Report post Posted August 26, 2013 I was curious on if the Regen could recharge the entire pack on a long downhill. So question answered.FusionDad gave a cross country trip report today and mentioned he Regened on the descent from Pikes Peak to 43 EV miles. Also took the car on the Bonneville Salt Flats! http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1019-anyone-taken-a-long-road-trip-yet/?do=findComment&comment=7006 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted August 26, 2013 FusionDad gave a cross country trip report today and mentioned he Regened on the descent from Pikes Peak to 43 EV miles. Also took the car on the Bonneville Salt Flats! http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1019-anyone-taken-a-long-road-trip-yet/?do=findComment&comment=7006He did the same on the PPP(still cant say it)chat site too. Talk about a bunch of snot nosed stuck on their car folks, man do they nitpick the Fords. 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_h Report post Posted August 26, 2013 He did the same on the PPP(still cant say it)chat site too. Talk about a bunch of snot nosed stuck on their car folks, man do they nitpick the Fords. Do they get to the point of writing "FFF(still can't say it)" ??? 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted August 28, 2013 Do they get to the point of writing "FFF(still can't say it)" ???Nope, they only say, That "other" car company. They cant even bring themselves say Ford! :hysterical: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
