Ford bashing in the press

[djminfll]

This article lists the cars that exceed, meet, or miss their EPA estimates. Of course, Ford is next to last of those listed. They said the stats were collected from fuelly.com, and I looked at FFH on fuelly, and our numbers for most drivers are pretty poor - most seem to be in the upper 30's. it seems like most of us on this forum are doing pretty well, I don't know why so many others can't seem to make the numbers. I'm guessing they are not being "hybrid-friendly" when they drive?

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086029_real-world-gas-mileage-varies-by-brand-honda-does-well-ford-not-so-much

Edited August 5, 2013 by djminfll

[corncobs]

The opposite example are TDIs it just shows that the EPA test procedures are not up to date!

 

If the EPA would have returned 42 MPG combined for the FFH I would still drive the FFH today and would be even more thrilled to beat EPA by an even larger margin than I do currently.

 

Sometimes it seems that some people only report bad results to have a better stand in case there is a CALS success at some point. Of course there are people out there that have broken cars and Ford needs to address these issues.

 

EDIT: Sorry forgot a key word- "NOT" up to date -

That stuff makes me kinda angry making me think too fast for my fingers.

Edited August 5, 2013 by corncobs

[hermans]

The opposite example are TDIs it just shows that the EPA test procedures are up to date!

 

If the EPA would have returned 42 MPG combined for the FFH I would still drive the FFH today and would be even more thrilled to beat EPA by an even larger margin than I do currently.

 

Sometimes it seems that some people only report bad results to have a better stand in case there is a CALS success at some point. Of course there are people out there that have broken cars and Ford needs to address these issues.

Exactly, the information on Fuelly is depended on what people input and the numbers can be fudged (both ways) and now the "media" is using those numbers as gospel.

[hybridbear]

It's sad to see a site the claims to promote hybrid cars publishing an article that bashes two of the overall best cars available today. The blame belongs with the EPA primarily and then with Ford because they gamed the EPA tests and then thirdly with the fool drivers who had unrealistic expectations and are now upset.

[GrySql]

I don't know why so many others can't seem to make the numbers.

I'm guessing they are not being "hybrid-friendly" when they drive?

I don't either, my car never has.

I was not a good hybrid driver at first but after 8 months and 11,000 miles of practice I can do a decent hybrid-friendly driving routine.

My car just slipped into the 35MPG lifetime average, has dropped 3 whole points after the Battery Saver TSB update (?).

There are times when I can P&G my brains out to no avail and others when it will post outstanding results.

 

Unlike acdii's Blue Devil my car can achieve very high mpg's but it is inconsistent on the same roadways, doing the same thing.

Several times I have stopped the car on the side of the road, got out and looked under it to see if the anchor is dragging (i.e. - something wrong), I am not kidding.

 

Anyway, am looking forward to getting the new 'Mileage' software update.

I still love this car and enjoy driving it, but it is a moderate mpg achiever overall.

Edited August 5, 2013 by GrySql

[hybridbear]

I don't either, my car never has.

I was not a good hybrid driver at first but after 8 months and 11,000 miles of practice I can do a decent hybrid-friendly driving routine.

My car just slipped into the 35MPG lifetime average, has dropped 3 whole points after the Battery Saver TSB update (?).

There are times when I can P&G my brains out to no avail and others when it will post outstanding results.

 

Unlike acdii's Blue Devil my car can achieve very high mpg's but it is inconsistent on the same roadways, doing the same thing.

Several times I have stopped the car on the side of the road, got out and looked under it to see if the anchor is dragging (i.e. - something wrong), I am not kidding.

 

Anyway, am looking forward to getting the new 'Mileage' software update.

I still love this car and enjoy driving it, but it is a moderate mpg achiever overall.

I'm sure that your car is one of the defective ones and I for one appreciate that you don't come around here screaming about it like other users have. I sure hope that Ford will soon accept responsibility and fix the defective ones.

[GrySql]

I'm sure that your car is one of the defective ones and I for one appreciate that you don't come around here screaming about it like other users have. I sure hope that Ford will soon accept responsibility and fix the defective ones.

At my age I've owned plenty of cars, so when I look at my personal 'big picture' I find that this FFH is one of the best all around sedans I've ever owned.

I like the way it looks, drives and the mpg's it gets doing what I ask of it. I've never owned one that even got close to 35 mpg's as an average either, the EPA stuff doesn't bother me.

 

Over time the biggest enjoyment we get from the FFH is that this car acts as a sort of 'time machine' when traveling, it fits us.

We are not fatigued after being in it for long periods and arrive at our destinations refreshed, as though we didn't physically do much more that step in, get there and step out.

Complaining about a car that does all that seems shortsighted.

 

I only mention it, in this case, to point out that certain FFH's are not getting higher mileage because of simple driver error.

Frankly, I don't like you calling my car 'defective' either, it just has it's own personality. ;)

I still brag about my car to the frequent strangers who ask me questions about it.

[hermans]

GrySql - I know just what you are talking about. I find the FFH much more to my liking than the MKZh. I like the ways it drives and rides. When my wife decided to commandeer the Z I just said OK no trouble. I find the FFH to be more comfortable for me,

[jeapa]

It does seem like there are some cars that just aren't calibrated right or something. I am not trying very hard and I am getting EPA milage.

 

I know I have experience driving a hybrid, but inexperience can't account for all of the cars. I sure wish Ford would do more to address the problem.

 

I love this car, but I do think I would be upset if I couldn't get at least 40mpg.

[DeeCee]

It does seem like there are some cars that just aren't calibrated right or something. I am not trying very hard and I am getting EPA milage.

 

I know I have experience driving a hybrid, but inexperience can't account for all of the cars. I sure wish Ford would do more to address the problem.

 

I love this car, but I do think I would be upset if I couldn't get at least 40mpg.

I agree. There are some under performing cars out there and Ford needs to step up and find out what the problem(s) are.

 

I am a first time hybrid driver and do not try very hard to hyper-mile and yet i get 45+ mpg constantly. I normally accelerate fairly rapidly to the speed limit and then engage ACC and let the cars computer do the rest while I sit back and enjoy the fine ride. I probably use ACC 90% of the time.

[djminfll]

This article lists the cars that exceed, meet, or miss their EPA estimates. Of course, Ford is next to last of those listed. They said the stats were collected from fuelly.com, and I looked at FFH on fuelly, and our numbers for most drivers are pretty poor - most seem to be in the upper 30's. it seems like most of us on this forum are doing pretty well, I don't know why so many others can't seem to make the numbers. I'm guessing they are not being "hybrid-friendly" when they drive?http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086029_real-world-gas-mileage-varies-by-brand-honda-does-well-ford-not-so-much

My original statement was not meant to say that anyone here who is not achieving high mpg is not driving hybrid friendly. I acknowledge that some cars, I believe the earliest ones built, are not getting higher mpg, but my intent was to question why so many of the fuelly participants, from which this article is based, are doing so poorly. If you go onto fuelly.com and select Ford Fusion Hybrid, the majority of the average mpg numbers are under 40. So I'm thinking that quite a few of these drivers are driving their cars like they would a regular ICE vehicle.

[murphy]

If you restrict it to the hybrid L4 engine it goes up to 41.1 mpg for the 2013 models.

 

People don't always enter the description of their car correctly, especially those that are not "car people".

[acdii]

My original statement was not meant to say that anyone here who is not achieving high mpg is not driving hybrid friendly. I acknowledge that some cars, I believe the earliest ones built, are not getting higher mpg, but my intent was to question why so many of the fuelly participants, from which this article is based, are doing so poorly. If you go onto fuelly.com and select Ford Fusion Hybrid, the majority of the average mpg numbers are under 40. So I'm thinking that quite a few of these drivers are driving their cars like they would a regular ICE vehicle.

This is most likely the reason, and also there are quite a few who have winter numbers up there, and it takes quite a long time to recover from low winter MPG.

 

Also keep in mind, most drivers who are getting decent numbers, wont be posting on fuelly, it is mainly those who are having trouble that do. Just like all these forums, you see a lot of complaints, but very few good stories, mainly because, why would someone waste time posting if there is nothing wrong?

 

If you drive this particular car exactly as prescribed by the EPA you will get 47 provided the car is 100%. That unfortunately will come back to bite Ford in the rump because all the Toyota hybrids, and the first gen Fusion, could achieve EPA and beyond with ease, and not by driving the EPA way. I really think Toyota ran their tests on their hybrids as a normal car, and designed them that way, no trickery, but I do believe Ford Gamed EPA by designing the system to mimic EPA tests exactly so they could achieve those numbers. It's a gamble they did that will eventually hurt them, unless this latest update proves otherwise, however, if it does, then it puts forth further proof that Ford really did game EPA.

 

Ford really did build a great car, and they do get exceptional MPG for a car this size, but going for the glory of 47 combined, that I think is wrong, these cars on average will come out more along the 43 MPG mark overall n the real world. Look at the 10-12 line, they listed EPA at 39 Combined, and that is what they get!

 

When was the last time you saw or heard a Ford Commercial for the FFH and Cmax claiming 47 MPG? Been a while, I wonder why. (not really)

[murphy]

Do the Hybrid and the Energi have the same ICE?

The combined city/highway rating for the Energi for gasoline only is 43 mpg.

Is the mpg difference due to the weight of the bigger battery?

[corncobs]

Yes and Yes ;-)

[hybridbear]

If you drive this particular car exactly as prescribed by the EPA you will get 47 provided the car is 100%. That unfortunately will come back to bite Ford in the rump because all the Toyota hybrids, and the first gen Fusion, could achieve EPA and beyond with ease, and not by driving the EPA way. I really think Toyota ran their tests on their hybrids as a normal car, and designed them that way, no trickery, but I do believe Ford Gamed EPA by designing the system to mimic EPA tests exactly so they could achieve those numbers. It's a gamble they did that will eventually hurt them, unless this latest update proves otherwise, however, if it does, then it puts forth further proof that Ford really did game EPA.

 

Ford really did build a great car, and they do get exceptional MPG for a car this size, but going for the glory of 47 combined, that I think is wrong, these cars on average will come out more along the 43 MPG mark overall n the real world. Look at the 10-12 line, they listed EPA at 39 Combined, and that is what they get!

Ford & Toyota went different directions with their hybrid systems. When I got to participate in the FFH Lunch Date with one of the engineers I asked about that and he said that a common remark from owners of 1st Gen FFHs and other hybrids is that they wanted more time driving EV only. Ford engineers likely heard that and built a car to do more time EV only. That's why I can see 65+% of my miles in EV mode in the city. You would never see that in a Toyota hybrid. Achieving more time in EV only means putting in a more powerful electric motor and a pretty powerful ICE to drive the car while charging the batteries. In the Prius you don't get much EV only driving because the electric motor is small and the ICE is small so they often have to work together to power the car. The ICE is rarely on alone driving the vehicle and charging and the car rarely drives in EV only except when there's a very, very low power demand.

 

Ford likely didn't start out trying to game the EPA tests. They likely started out trying to satisfy customer requests for more EV driving. Then as they began testing they likely realized that setting the max EV only speed as 62 MPH would get them the best results on the EPA tests. This change to raise the limit to 85 shows that this is software programming. They could have set the max EV only speed to be 47 MPH or so like in the Prius or TCH, but they didn't because they knew that 62 MPH would be advantageous on the EPA tests.

 

Unfortunately their design makes it much easier to accelerate hard and thus waste fuel. This leads to unhappy customers who are not getting 47+ MPG. The lack of an EPA requirement to perform all 5 cycles also likely inflated the result which makes people unhappy.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Ford knew what they were doing and took a calculated risk, I've said that since January. I also want to see hybrids reach their tipping point and really prosper and my biggest concern about all this is that Ford's actions will have the unintended consequence of discouraging people from buying ANY hybrid because of the controversy.

[acdii]

Yep!

 

 

 

Although I have to admit, my 2010 was just a tad quicker than the 2013. I raced my wife once with the BD, she won, not by much, but she still beat me. The beauty of living in the country, wide open roads and no one to bugger you.

 

 

She still rags on me about that too. I was quicker off the line, but on the 10, when that ICE kicked on with a good HVB charge, it just pulled away. Of course THAT car may have been a dog altogether, and since I no longer have the 2010 to race the new one against, I cant say for sure.