Article about needing changes to EPA test cycles

[hybridbear]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084096_should-epa-gas-mileage-ratings-tests-change-what-you-need-to-know

 

Other than the quote from this idiot who posts his comment on EVERY single Ford Hybrid article this write-up isn't bad.

 

I agree that the test cycles need to be changed. 47 MPG city is very realistic, 47 MPG highway is not realistic because the EPA definition of highway driving does not match the definition most consumers would give for highway driving. Either the EPA needs to alter their procedures, or consumers need to alter their expectations...in a battle of the beauracracy of the US government and the expectations of a rather unintelligent populace I wonder who'll win...either way it's sad

[corncobs]

Thanks for sharing interesting article; it will be interesting to see if the EPA test cycles actually will be changed sooner or later.

[tombarker13ffh]

The day I ordered my FFH, 12/14/12, I test drove a C-Max. I put 7 miles on it up to about 63mph a little bit out of town and came back and I got 52 MPG. I was impressed but liked the Fusion's looks better so i ordered one on the spot. I don't know how the C-Max became the hate magnet for prius worshipers, but I wonder how differently things would have been if Fords hybrids had been a mid-summer release when it was 80+ degrees out. And why is the C-Max still largely regarded as Ford's deceptive disappointment while I know, based on my experiences with the Fusion, that there are thousands of C-Maxs out there exceeding 47mpg? I have to try pretty damn hard these days to get under 47mpg on any trip. If weather is such a huge factor in mpg, why not have summer/winter EPA ratings? Why don't all the reviewers do new reviews and see if things are different?

[corncobs]

That sounds fair and also throw in the different fuel blend in different parts of the country but I guess that get a bit complicate but would be better for sure.

Or at least make people aware of those impacts positive / negative and not just in small fine print.

They could also add a third rating for actuall interstate speed maybe at 65 MPH constant for 30 min. I think they added that in Europe a few years ago.

[tombarker13ffh]

"Regrettably, neither Ford appears to achieve anything close to its 47-mpg EPA combined fuel-efficiency rating in real-world use.

 

Sufficient numbers of C-Max Hybrid and 2013 Fusion Hybrid buyers have complained that the EPA is now investigating those cars."

 

I hate how they tack shit like this onto the ends of new stories as a recap of the current public sentiment toward the vehicles without at all caring to consider positive experiences. Its worse than political news. That was written today..

[acdii]

Well when you consider, on Fueleconomy,gov, that out of 86 listed Cmax, the overall average is only 38.8, and then compare to Prius V which out of 12 for 2013 is averaging 40, and is rated at 42, that statement still holds water. When Ford is targeting Prius V buyers with the Cmax, and touting 47 MPG, vs the 42 of the Prius, yet the Prius V is showing that it does better than the Cmax in real world, It isnt like they are blowing smoke in their statement, unfortunately they have facts to back it up. Compare to the 2012 Prius V, 21 vehicles listed, with a 41.8 MPG average.

 

Also when you look at the Fuelly badges here and on the Cmax forum, very few are at or above the EPA rating, yet if you go to Priuschat and look at badges there, quite a few are well above the EPA ratings. If Ford had released the new hybrids in the spring when the temps were warmer, it might not have been so bad, but releasing them prior to winter, and finding out how poorly they do in the cold does not bode well for Ford.

[tombarker13ffh]

Yeah but I bet those Prius drivers have had quite a bit of practice and several two or four-season cycles to get their numbers to that level. And I bet a year from now there will be many more vehicles here and on CMax forums showing fuelly badges above EPA ratings. My car's showing 44.2 on lifetime and it's easy to say 'well tom is an exception because he tries really hard and doesnt do any realistic driving' but I don't think theres a Prius driver out there who doesnt' drive as slow as I do. No one hot rods a Prius, let alone doing so and getting 50+ average mpg. And the Prius is so much more of a prevalent vehicle in the American market that there are many many many more enthusiasts that drive them to get the absolute best mileage they can and get online on forums and show it off and talk shit about other models than there are Fusion and CMax drivers. Ford gambled, for sure, and have lost a lot of sales and 'hybrid respect' because people don't drive the way the vehicles are tested, but when I hear that these cars don't get 'anywhere near EPA during real world driving', I have to disagree.

[fusionTX]

Yeah but I bet those Prius drivers have had quite a bit of practice and several two or four-season cycles to get their numbers to that level. And I bet a year from now there will be many more vehicles here and on CMax forums showing fuelly badges above EPA ratings. My car's showing 44.2 on lifetime and it's easy to say 'well tom is an exception because he tries really hard and doesnt do any realistic driving' but I don't think theres a Prius driver out there who doesnt' drive as slow as I do. No one hot rods a Prius, let alone doing so and getting 50+ average mpg. And the Prius is so much more of a prevalent vehicle in the American market that there are many many many more enthusiasts that drive them to get the absolute best mileage they can and get online on forums and show it off and talk shit about other models than there are Fusion and CMax drivers. Ford gambled, for sure, and have lost a lot of sales and 'hybrid respect' because people don't drive the way the vehicles are tested, but when I hear that these cars don't get 'anywhere near EPA during real world driving', I have to disagree.

There were head to head comparison Drives documented between the Prius, the Prius V and the Cmax a while back.

They were done In California, if I remember correctly. It's a good read if you have the time.

the comparisons start somewhere in the middle of the thread and are documented with pictures. All three cars were driven at the same time.

 

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45723

 

The Cmax did not fare so well, except forome citytest, if I remeber correctly.

 

I went back and look at the thread. I think this is where the comparisons start.

 

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45723&page=14

Edited May 11, 2013 by fusionTX

[acdii]

I was comparing same year cars to make it fair. Would not be a fair comparison if I did previous years vs current. The point is though, you can get in any Toyota hybrid and take it on a test drive and meet EPA if you know what you are doing, but not in either of the Ford Hybrids. Been there, done that.

[hybridbear]

No one hot rods a Prius, let alone doing so and getting 50+ average mpg.

 

Ford gambled, for sure, and have lost a lot of sales and 'hybrid respect' because people don't drive the way the vehicles are tested, but when I hear that these cars don't get 'anywhere near EPA during real world driving', I have to disagree.

You're right about that. It is also to be expected that the Toyota Prius will do better on fuel because it is lighter and has a smaller ICE that can run in its most efficient range more often than the larger ICE in our cars. But our cars have more power for emergency situations when power is needed. I have test driven a Prius and have a friend with a Prius and it is scary trying to merge in a Prius because it has no power in those situations where you need power

 

There were head to head comparison Drives documented between the Prius, the Prius V and the Cmax a while back.

They were done In California, if I remember correctly. It's a good read if you have the time.

the comparisons start somewhere in the middle of the thread and are documented with pictures. All three cars were driven at the same time.

 

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45723

 

The Cmax did not fare so well, except forome citytest, if I remeber correctly.

 

I went back and look at the thread. I think this is where the comparisons start.

 

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45723&page=14

This is a great read. Not surprising that the C-Max is the worst even though its EPA ratings are higher than Prius V because the C-Max is heavier and has a more powerful ICE. You cannot defy the laws of physics. Ford engineers are not magicians. I like that this write up points out that the C-Max comes close to its EPA ratings, the difference is just that other cars are more easily able to beat their EPA ratings

[hybridbear]

Here is a great article posted by alpha in another thread. Worth the time to read. I hope the EPA listens to what C&D has to say

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/why-is-the-epa-so-bad-at-estimating-hybrid-fuel-economy-feature

[fusionTX]

Here is a great article posted by alpha in another thread. Worth the time to read. I hope the EPA listens to what C&D has to say

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/why-is-the-epa-so-bad-at-estimating-hybrid-fuel-economy-feature

Excellent read. Thanks for sharing!

 

IMO, It is time for EPA to step up.

Consumers have a right to know what mileage a car gets at 75 MPH before they plunk down thousands of dollars.

[hybridbear]

The Car & Driver article is incorrect. See information posted below from the C-Max Hybrid Forum

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1871-how-the-epaford-gets-the-c-max-fuel-ratings/