Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

[B25Nut]

This is a review from Green Car Reports:

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083483_2013-hyundai-sonata-hybrid-first-drive

 

When comparing potential sales this year to the 2012 Sonata Hybrid, they have this to say.

 

"We suspect the new car, which is less unpleasant to drive, could well improve on that number as more U.S. buyers become aware that Hyundai offers a mid-size hybrid sedan."

 

A nice way to say it doesn't even come close to the FFH or TCH in most aspects.

 

[GrySql]

I think this says it all in that review -"but it feels odd" .

Plus, the styling is getting old, the front is plain ugly.

 

It's nice to know our cars are the ones others are compared to as the top tier of hybrids.

[acdii]

The Kia Optima is a nice looking car, but....its a Kia. I took a look at the Sonata when it first came out. That was about it, I looked, and walked away. I did own a Veracruz, it was FWD, had it been AWD I would most likely still have it, it was very nice, quiet, handled well, was comfortable, and well built. It had the toys my Flex now has, rain sensing wipers, push button start, touch to lock unlock, didnt have ACC though, but both outside mirrors dimmed, good stereo, room for 7. Have to give credit to Hyundai, they do make nice cars now.

[RedLdr1]

Having owned a 2012 Sonata Hybrid with the Luxury Package I'll add a few comments from my experiences.

 

"Less pleasant to drive" is an understatement. The Sonata drivers seat killed my back, and the passenger seat had my wife saying she felt like she was sitting on the floor. The backseat is awkward to get in, uncomfortable, and very awkward to exit...ladies in skirts or dresses be forewarned... :redcard: Unfortunately the average thirty minute test drive does not reveal seating issues like these as it takes awhile to "feel" them. After this experience before we bought our FFH our dealer loaned us a new Titanium 2.0 Ecoboost to drive for a day to see if it would be comfortable...sometimes it pays to have a long standing relationship with one dealer.

 

Performance, I know we are talking hybrids and that is a "dirty" word...but don't stop light race a Sonata...you'll lose. The non-CVT six speed transmission, bigger motor, and bigger battery all give the Sonata the edge. The more powerful drive train in the 2013 the article describes will just add to that advantage. But you will notice the six speed shifting and some times the transition to and from the ICE is a tad clunky...and you won't get the gas mileage a FFH is capable of....

 

Handling, the FFH feels much more stable and exhibits less drama running my favorite North Georgia mountain roads. But that is just my opinion with no subjective data to back it up...

 

Gas Mileage, see Performance.... ;) If I drove it like a "regular" car I averaged around 30 MPG...by behaving and a little working at it I could hit the rated 36MPG.

 

Entertainment / Navigation System, the Navigation / Stereo / iPod / Bluetooth Integration in the Sonata was much better than Ford and Microsoft MFT by a long shot. First and foremost there were no ongoing software issues like MFT. Using "BlueLink", the Hyundai Remote access application, allowed me to remote start the car, added theft prevention, emergency response services, vehicle locator, the ability to make calls without using my cellphone, and a few other toys. BlueLink does require a subscription like GM's "OnStar" after a six month trial to pay for that built in cellphone. The app they provided to link to the Sonata's BlueLink for my Droid was very good... Ford could learn a lot from Hyundai in this area.... Before anyone comments I know Ford has a similar built in cell phone system in the Energi version of the FFH and C-Max...but it has the same MFT issues from what I read on the C-Max forum...

 

Technology, our FFH has more "tech toys" such as Assisted Parking , Lane Keeping, Adaptive Cruise Control, etc than Hyundai offers. The FFH is light years ahead of the Sonata in available technology...if you want "tech toys" buy a FFH... :)

 

After three months I couldn't take the seating situation any longer and the Sonata was swapped for my C-Max SEL... My advice to anyone considering a Sonata Hybrid is to really check out the seating and see if it will work for them.

Edited April 19, 2013 by RedLdr1

[acdii]

Thats what made me walk away from the Sonata. I took one look at the seats and saw that they would be too tight with car seats, and did not look very comfortable.

[rvlasek]

What made walk away in hurry, is that local Hyundai dealer jacked up the price from above stickler about 20%,,,, went directly to Ford and bought my first Hybrid, 2010 FFH....

[Harbor]

Last summer we test drove the KIA and Hyndai hybrids as we thought they might be a less expensive option than the '12 FFH. My wife was looking for a '12 hybrid of some type.

 

We found the KIA and the Hyndai are essentially the same car, built upon the same chassis if I'm not mistaken. Nissan had discontinued their hybrids as they weren't up to par and they are now regrouping for next year. Toyota was too expensive and too small to work for our family as was the Volt. We initally didn't want a Ford. 'Found on Road Dead' I always used to say and test drove one as a last resort. My dad also had an issue with Ford not owning up to problems (when I was a boy in 1978), so our family never bought a Ford for 30 years out of respect for our father.

 

We took all the hybrids out for a spin on a really bad road. Our take on the Hyndai Sonata:

 

1) The ride was rougher - the car made more noise on bad road than the FFH

2) The car seemed looser. I can't put that one into words but it felt less solid.

3) The windows were WAY too high, about neck level. Don't bother trying to hang your arm out the window, you can't. As such you look like a smurf from the outside of the car because only your head is visible.

4) It was the same price as the FFH, so there wasn't ANY cost savings. We were shocked.

 

The advantages on the Sonata side were:

 

1) the Sonata could go up to 72 mpg on battery and the '12 FFH was limited to 42.

2) the Hyndai allows you to start the car from a webpage or phone app- a cool feature

3) I think the Sonata had a push button start.

4) The warranty on the Sonata was 5/60k

 

In the end we both like the FFH better, much to our surprise. We waited until we had driven them all before discussing it as we didn't want to influence the others opinion. Both of us were reluctant to admit that the FFH was the best. She bought a '12 FFH in Ginger Ale color.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Harbor

[corncobs]

Here is a new article on the new Sonata Hybrid.

 

I would say nothing to be afraid about FFH

 

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

 

Hyundai Sonata hybrid gets big upgrades

 

http://usat.ly/12p7pdW

Edited June 29, 2013 by corncobs

[lolder]

They've still got the ICE-clutch-motor-clutch-six speed transmission-wheels layout that gave them so much trouble in gen 1. I think that will be prone to trouble in the short or long run. The first clutch has to engage at the precise moment when the ICE and motor are at the same RPM at initial movement of the car. It's all about avoiding the eCVT patents. Even if it works, it's much more complicated. Clutches and automatic transmissions wear, eCVTs dont.

Also Jim Healey has an unreasoning genetic abhorrence of eCVTs. He just has to hear the RPMs changing through the gears. Hogwash !!

[ny2oc1996]

Initially we looked at the Hyundai Sonata hybrid because it has a 100.000 mile powertrain warranty and the only lifetime warranty on the hybrid battery that I know of. The big turn off was the huge trout mouth front with no grille. The regular Sonata at least fills that space with a pleasant looking grille. The other negative was that the mpg is not up to Fusion/Camry numbers.

[RedLdr1]

The other negative was that the mpg is not up to Fusion/Camry numbers.

 

It may not be up to the numbers the FFH has posted but in fairness mine was very close to it's "faked" EPA numbers of 36MPG and averaged around 35MPG. Our FFH isn't even doing that, I'd be happy with 35MPG right now.....with a car rated at 47/47/47MPG.....

Edited June 30, 2013 by RedLdr1

[acdii]

It does appear that early FFH are showing poor EPA, but later ones are not. Ford really needs to step up and resolve these or the negative publicity will hurt them. There also should be some retakes on some of these test drives with the warmer weather, I can get 42 without trying, and go over EPA trying, while the first one struggle to get 35, which leads me to believe the test cars they had were also having the same problems.

 

I doubt the SonHy would do anything to take sales away from Ford or Toyota. There are always those who would buy Toyota no matter how much better the others are, and there are those who want what Ford has to offer.

[HenryVIII]

When I see the new Hyundai's all I can think of is this:

 

[hybridbear]

What a terrible review. I agree with lolder that the non-eCVT design is far inferior. But I suppose that Hyundai doesn't want to pay to use the technology that Ford & Toyota have patented, which makes me wonder how Honda's new system will work.

[lolder]

I haven't been able to find a block diagram of the new Honda hybrid. I had some correspondence with James Healey about the Hyundai review and he doesn't know about the Honda either. Honda and Hyundai are established reputable companies. Even if their designs are kluges, sometimes their execution of them is OK. The axle spacer ( clicking ) problem with the 2013 FFH is a minor glitch but it's going to adversely affect the defect statistics.

[lolder]

It looks like the HAH still uses a dual cone belt CVT instead of the Toyota/Ford type planetary gear power split eCVT. It also has a lock up clutch and two MGs. I think the cone CVTs have come a long way so we'll see how Honda does.

[dalesky]

This is a review from Green Car Reports:

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083483_2013-hyundai-sonata-hybrid-first-drive

 

When comparing potential sales this year to the 2012 Sonata Hybrid, they have this to say.

 

"We suspect the new car, which is less unpleasant to drive, could well improve on that number as more U.S. buyers become aware that Hyundai offers a mid-size hybrid sedan."

 

A nice way to say it doesn't even come close to the FFH or TCH in most aspects.

 

I test drove one, and I must say the transtion from hybrid to ICE is not so good. Also, at over 125mpg it floats a lot (kidding)

[dalesky]

 

 

It does appear that early FFH are showing poor EPA, but later ones are not. Ford really needs to step up and resolve these or the negative publicity will hurt them. There also should be some retakes on some of these test drives with the warmer weather, I can get 42 without trying, and go over EPA trying, while the first one struggle to get 35, which leads me to believe the test cars they had were also having the same problems.

I doubt the SonHy would do anything to take sales away from Ford or Toyota. There are always those who would buy Toyota no matter how much better the others are, and there are those who want what Ford has to offer.

For some unknown reason, when my car was built, it was sent for quality control testing. It delayed my getting the car by at least a month. Perhaps it was then that any issues of earlier builds were resolved with software upgrades. I don't know, but my car has been 100% as far as build quality, and mileage is what I expected. I have been able to top 50MPG a number of times on trips under 10 miles, and under 65mph, so nothing to complain about. The transition from ICE only or EM only to ICE and EM is seamless, and feels powerful. Edited July 3, 2013 by dalesky

[HenryVIII]

For some unknown reason, when my car was built, it was sent for quality control testing. It delayed my getting the car by at least a month. Perhaps it was then that any issues of earlier builds were resolved with software upgrades. I don't know, but my car has been 100% as far as build quality, and mileage is what I expected. I have been able to top 50MPG a number of times on trips under 10 miles, and under 65mph, so nothing to complain about. The transition from ICE only or EM only to ICE and EM is seamless, and feels powerful.

 

My car was selected for quality control testing as well. It had the little sticker for it along with 262 miles (QC test plus Dealer Xfer) and everything has gone very well with the exception of MFT Sync (Bluetooth pairing specifically) issues.

[coach81]

One of the biggest reasons I got my FFH is the huge backseat.. my boys are getting bigger and bigger..I wanted great gas.. great tech... and plenty of room in the backseat.. the FFH is bigger than the Sonata as per my research..

 

[GrayStrider]

Sitting in the back seat was one of the first things I did when we looked at our FFH when it was on the lot. I have two teenagers and wanted to make sure there'd be enough leg room. They find it comfortable to ride in. My brother is a Camry owner and is considering a hybrid for his next vehicle. He's 6' 4 1/2" so headroom and being able to completely stretch out his legs is always a challenge. He sat in our FFH, slid the seat back, and was amazed that he could actually straighten his legs, and his head wasn't touching the roof. It's making him reconsider Ford.

[sdeeble]

So Ford announced this week our FFH are getting a fuel update increase and they can run up to 85 mph on all electric!

Sounds great but unless the battery lasts longer by holding a higher charge longer it won't make any difference.

What do you people think?

[neod192]

What do you people think?

Read all about it here: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7188-software-updates-from-ford-to-improve-mpgs/

[lolder]

The DOE has been running 160,000 mile lifetime tests on a number of hybrids: http://avt.inl.gov/hev.shtml

They published the Sonata Hybid here: http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/hev/batterysonata4932.pdf

The HVB did well but the test was terminated at 120,000 miles because of drive train malfunction.

[hybridbear]

Interesting comment from Hyundai's head of Green R&D:

 

Perhaps we have a little bit of a handicap in city driving, but at higher speeds, our hybrids can use both the engine and the motor. In two-motor systems, one of those motors is used only to control engine speed.

So we may have efficiency that's slightly lower in the city--perhaps 3 to 5 percent--but we gain 10 percent or more at highway speeds over the efficiency of the twin-motor design. For American use in particular, that's important.

This is exactly what I was commenting on regarding negative split mode in my road trip thread. At high speeds the efficiency of the Ford hybrids is limited because the eCVT design forces the car into negative split mode which is inefficient. I think that Hyundai's 74 HP electric motor in the upcoming PHEV Sonata is a bit small for EV only driving, but I'm impressed with their engineering and these comments.

 

You can read more here from GCR.