EPA test is totally unrealistic

[acdii]

Agreed. A sustained 65 MPH test that simulates Interstate travel is what most people assume is the Highway rating, when it is not. CR tests this way, and just about all car reviews do the same, so if one portion of the test is Interstate with gentle rolling hills that most of them have over a period of time would be most beneficial.

[hybridbear]

Check out this app that will soon be available to allow you to see your personalized MPG for a new car

 

http://vehicles.challenge.gov/submissions/14025-mycarma-personal-fuel-economy-label-mobile-app

[acdii]

hmmm maybe I should get a Droid

 

 

Nah, that would increase my phone bill $50 and I would lose unlimited data with Verizon.

[mokee]

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/heres-why-real-world-mpg-doesnt-match-epa-ratings.html

[mokee]

Also:

 

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/we-test-the-tips-part-ii.html

 

Brent Romans, Senior Automotive Editor: "So it seems that the biggest effect on fuel economy is — surprise! — you. If you want to maximize fuel economy, the best way to do it is simply to drive in a relaxed manner."

 

Some might say you need to drive a hybrid differently. I'd say differently includes driving in a "relaxed manner." My brother-in-law, whom I've never seen drive faster than what he calls "the triple nickle" on the Insterstate, used to tell me: "It ain't a race. We're all gonna wind up in the same fix. Some gonna get there sooner than others, but there ain't no prize for gettin' there first."

 

It makes my sister crazy!

Edited April 8, 2013 by mokee

[darrel.e.wise]

Last weekend was a 1600 mile jaunt from Kansas City to Houston and back. Averaged 41 mpg for the entire trip which was mostly at 65 to 75 mph. Whether it gets EPA estimate or not, I feel like that was pretty good mileage.

[majorleeslow]

I've been getting above 55 mpg consistently under 50 mph, but as soon as I hit hwy speeds it drops by 10 miles. wish Ford was more honest in the hwy numbers. it would have prevented lots of grief and lawsuits.

[jeff_h]

I've been getting above 55 mpg consistently under 50 mph, but as soon as I hit hwy speeds it drops by 10 miles. wish Ford was more honest in the hwy numbers. it would have prevented lots of grief and lawsuits.

 

They don't decide what numbers to put on the sticker, they carry out the EPA protocol and report the numbers. If they follow the EPA protocol and report the numbers and can back them up, they have done their job.

 

However if a manufacturer does not carry out the tests in the proper manner or does not put the accurate numbers according to the EPA protocol, then there is trouble like Hyundia and Kia had.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/02/autos/hyundai-kia-mpg-overstated/index.html

[majorleeslow]

Good point Jeff_h, which tells me that EPA tests are outdated and still somewhat manipulated (E0 fuel, fully charged battery, programming to maximise fuel efficiency just for EPA specs.etc).

I've driven Civic for years, my fuel eff was always better that the window sticker and that is without feathered driving. I used to beat it up and still be better. My point about honesty was that ford could have disputed the much higher results when they knew it wasn't achievable in real life.

[Waldo]

Good point Jeff_h, which tells me that EPA tests are outdated and still somewhat manipulated (E0 fuel, fully charged battery, programming to maximise fuel efficiency just for EPA specs.etc).

I've driven Civic for years, my fuel eff was always better that the window sticker and that is without feathered driving. I used to beat it up and still be better. My point about honesty was that ford could have disputed the much higher results when they knew it wasn't achievable in real life.

 

Ford has been very vocal with the EPA telling them how they should modify their testing procedure. Why should Ford put themselves at a competitive disadvantage by holding themselves to a higher standard than everyone else is using?

 

The EPA knows what's wrong with their tests, they just don't have the budget to fix it (they are funded by our tax dollars, after all). Would you be willing to pay higher taxes to fix the EPA test?

[kuzzi]

We often shoot ourselves in the foot when testing our equipment to standards above what API calls for. If we were to test to our higher standards during an API qualification and fail, that's $50k down the drain and add another month to delivery date. Customers do not like that premium for a tiny bit more quality.

[fusionTX]

So we have heard that the C-Max EPA numbers are incorrect and will be revised.

And we know that ford broke no rules in using Fusion Hybrid EPA numbers and transferring them to the C-MAX.

 

What I have yet to hear is that the EPA has confirmed the 47-47-47 number for the Fusion.

My understanding is that they were testing both the C-MAX and the Fusion Hybrid.

 

They've made an announcement on the C-MAX, but I have not heard anything (pro or con) on the Fusion Hybrid.

Am I mistaken in thinking that there is still a pronouncement to be made regarding the Fusion Hybrid's EPA numbers?

[jeff_h]

And we know that ford broke no rules in using Fusion Hybrid EPA numbers and transferring them to the C-MAX.

Am I mistaken in thinking that there is still a pronouncement to be made regarding the Fusion Hybrid's EPA numbers?

 

Yes I think you are mistaken, you appear to have answered your own question in your above statement. They did the actual testing with the Fusion and reported the numbers, then copied those numbers over to the CMax since they qualified as being in the same family under the EPA guidelines, as I understand and as noted in the Ford press release.

 

Since they did the actual testing with the Fusion, have the actual numbers that were reported to the EPA and able to be audited (and for which I believe the EPA did and found no fault in the process), what is there to pronounce?

[kuzzi]

Is the EPA test an ASTM standard?

[djminfll]

This USA Today article indicates that the EPA figure for the Fusion Hybrid is NOT being revised.

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/08/15/ford-cmax-mp/2660371/

[fusionTX]

 

Yes I think you are mistaken, you appear to have answered your own question in your above statement. They did the actual testing with the Fusion and reported the numbers, then copied those numbers over to the CMax since they qualified as being in the same family under the EPA guidelines, as I understand and as noted in the Ford press release.

 

Since they did the actual testing with the Fusion, have the actual numbers that were reported to the EPA and able to be audited (and for which I believe the EPA did and found no fault in the process), what is there to pronounce?

Since both models were reportedly falling short of EPA numbers, and the EPA opened up an investigation of both cars, I would have expected an announcement on both cars. It seems we got the negative news on the C_MAX, but not the positive news that the Fusion hybrid was indeed properly tested by Ford, and that no revision would be done.

[jeff_h]

Since both models were reportedly falling short of EPA numbers, and the EPA opened up an investigation of both cars, I would have expected an announcement on both cars. It seems we got the negative news on the C_MAX, but not the positive news that the Fusion hybrid was indeed properly tested by Ford, and that no revision would be done.

 

The one about the CMax is more attention-grabbing I guess, just like any bad press. Regular stuff is ho-hum.

[acdii]

When driven to EPA guidelines, the Fusion does get 47. As you can see there are a few members here, lucky bastards, whose daily drives allow them to use EPA type driving to exceed the ratings. I do know in mine, without the AC going I can hit 47 and above, even on the hilly roads at 55 MPH that I cant avoid, and when not on the hilly roads and under 55, getting over 50MPG.

 

AC use though hurts it badly, drove yesterday to CL same as I always do, but had the AC on, and barely got 40. Drops the tank average drastically. My wife took the car later to go to harvard, and without AC got over 50.

[corncobs]

Have you ever tried to use the climate in Auto and AC button off with the temp set to 73* ?

 

I used this setting on our drive back home and we were never uncomfortable even when temps hit 90* outside.

The climate usage never went over 1 kW mostly staying at .5 or even slightly below.

[acdii]

Have you ever tried to use the climate in Auto and AC button off with the temp set to 73* ?

 

I used this setting on our drive back home and we were never uncomfortable even when temps hit 90* outside.

The climate usage never went over 1 kW mostly staying at .5 or even slightly below.

I seldom use AC, only used it because my son complains too much when the windows are down. I also didnt feel like being sweaty, but I will give this a try since the next few days are in the 90+ range.

[Dolfdude]

I picked up my New 2014 fusion Hybrid Titanium 10 days ago with full tank of gas.
One thing I wanted to bring to your attention regarding the mileage & the software update on the Fusion hybrid. I noticed that my gas tank is below half now and I've driven only 180 miles. Given the tank capacity of 13.5 gallons, if we take the average would come to around 25 mpg. The average reads around 34 mpg (80% of that miles are city driven) & all those miles were always below 45-50 miles/hr speed.
Isn't the Fusion hybrid suppose to stay in battery mode up till 62 mph (except for accelerating and inclines) . I learnt that the re-calibration / PCM update allows the car to travel up to 85 mph in EV mode.
Also learnt that few cars are performing below average & Ford recommends to make the dealership aware of this first before contacting them.
My dealer is suggesting to wait for 6000 miles before we see improvement. I don't think one has to wait that long to get near the claimed estimates. If this is the case than i would be better off with gasoline model & save few thousand dollars.
My dealer won't even consider an exchange as it is now a USED vehicle (with 180 miles on it)

 

Any suggestion /advise would be helpful.

 

Thanks

[hybridbear]

I picked up my New 2014 fusion Hybrid Titanium 10 days ago with full tank of gas.

One thing I wanted to bring to your attention regarding the mileage & the software update on the Fusion hybrid. I noticed that my gas tank is below half now and I've driven only 180 miles. Given the tank capacity of 13.5 gallons, if we take the average would come to around 25 mpg. The average reads around 34 mpg (80% of that miles are city driven) & all those miles were always below 45-50 miles/hr speed.

Isn't the Fusion hybrid suppose to stay in battery mode up till 62 mph (except for accelerating and inclines) . I learnt that the re-calibration / PCM update allows the car to travel up to 85 mph in EV mode.

Also learnt that few cars are performing below average & Ford recommends to make the dealership aware of this first before contacting them.

My dealer is suggesting to wait for 6000 miles before we see improvement. I don't think one has to wait that long to get near the claimed estimates. If this is the case than i would be better off with gasoline model & save few thousand dollars.

My dealer won't even consider an exchange as it is now a USED vehicle (with 180 miles on it)

 

Any suggestion /advise would be helpful.

 

Thanks

Have you read the links in this thread that include fuel economy tips? Also remember that the gas tank likely wasn't actually full, it just looked full on the gauge. Did you reset one of the trip meters to show how much fuel you have used during those miles? We've also all found that the marks on the fuel gauge on the dash aren't at all accurate as far as measuring consumption. Our car will show half a tank when we've burned about 7.5-8.5 gallons according to the trip meter reset when filling up. It also will still show that the tank is full up to the point where we go through about 1.5 gallons after filling up. It takes awhile to learn how to drive a hybrid in order to get high fuel economy. Pay attention to the suggestions in the threads mentioned in the above link and you'll start seeing improvement. Use the Coach screen. If your brake scores are less than 95+% on a regular basis then you have a lot of work to do on your braking. Check out the acceleration coach. If it isn't right up near a full bar then you have some work to do there too. If you accelerate consistently in the most efficient range for the engine's BSFC curve it will give you a full acceleration bar. If it's lower that means you are stepping on the gas too hard and are wasting fuel. Accelerating at two bars on the Empower screen is right about the best place for peak fuel efficiency.

[jeff_h]

I've driven only 180 miles.

.

My dealer won't even consider an exchange as it is now a USED vehicle (with 180 miles on it)

 

You only have 180 miles on the car and are ready to turn it back in? Wow.

 

Your info says you are in the Chicago area, maybe you live near Corncobs (he's in the burbs there somewhere) and can get together - he would be able to provide far better info and tips than the vast majority of salesmen, based on the comments that other users have passed on about the apparent knowledge level of their respective salesmen.

[corncobs]

Dolfdude based on your dealer I would guess you are somewhere around the western burbs maybe Naperville / Downers Grove area. I work very close to 38 and 53 I would be more then happy to help you out.

 

In a first step I would say increase you patiences, relax and don't try to force good numbers they will come with time 180 miles is nothing. You haven't even been to the gas station yourself so I agree with jeff_h maybe the tank wasn't actually full. Just imagine how much money a dealer can save by not filling the 1st tank of each delivered to 100%.

 

If you are interested to meet at some point send me a PM and we can figure out some timing.

 

Another FYI my first by the dealer "sponsored" tank only returned 36.7 MPG the second 42.2 MPG.

Edited September 10, 2013 by corncobs

[Waldo]

Isn't the Fusion hybrid suppose to stay in battery mode up till 62 mph (except for accelerating and inclines) . I learnt that the re-calibration / PCM update allows the car to travel up to 85 mph in EV mode.

 

 

Hybrids are very complicated systems, there's a lot to learn about how they work. The Fusion is not "supposed to stay" in battery mode, it "can" stay in battery mode up to 62 and now 85mph if the conditions are right. Those conditions include load demand, battery state of charge, engine temperature, accessory load and a few other things. If the car stayed in battery mode up to 62mph the battery would be dead within a couple miles. It's the Fusion Energi that stays in battery mode for long periods of time because it has a MUCH bigger battery.

 

And has other have said, projecting your actual fuel use based on the gas gauge alone is crazy, it's not even close to accurate enough for that kind of a calculation.

 

Also note that all EPA testing is done on vehicles that have at least 4000 miles on them. Before that they are not even considered ready for testing.

 

Be patient.