Hybrid transmission (HF35) fluid level check?

[gemdc]

Does anyone know where the "overflow" plug is for the transmission on the 2013 Fusion Hybrid?

 

I know it doesn't have a dipstick. Would assume it is like the Prius, take out the high level plug and put in a hose and pump until it overflows. Assuming all these simple things have been checked is like saying car salesmen (and service people) are completely trustworthy. Like they can't tell whether my hybrid has a noise in the trans until they compare it to another just like it. C-Max Hybrid won't do even though it has same engine/trans.

 

Even though the dealer said they checked the fluid level, I always like to verify something as simple as this. I have looked at all the likely locations and can't identify the overflow plug. Drain plug is easy to see.

 

You do have to pull the 11 torx bolts and remove the cover from the bottom area of the engine / transmission so finding someone who knows this answer isn't likely, thought I would try as I know some of you are tinkerers.

 

Easy to find this info on a Prius but nowhere on the 2013 Fusion Hybrid.

[acdii]

Give it time. Once the weather warms up and guys start to mess with the cars, like me, there will be quite a few who may find it.

[hybridbear]

Being that there isn't a "transmission" in the sense we normally think of it there isn't transmission fluid. The FFH, like the Prius, has a PSD (Power Split Device). That is where the planetary gear, sun gear, MG1 and ICE come together to power the car. I imagine there must be some sort of lubrication in there but there is no easy way to check the fluid that I can find

[msc928]

Hello gemdc,

the HF35 Gearbox oil level check is the same as you do on a manual transmission. Se attached file.

If you need more information, don't hesitate to contact me.

Have a nice day.

 

Wolfgang

Oel Check Fusion Hybrid gearbox.pdf

[hybridbear]

Hello gemdc,

the HF35 Gearbox oil level check is the same as you do on a manual transmission. Se attached file.

If you need more information, don't hesitate to contact me.

Have a nice day.

 

Wolfgang

 

So what do you do once you open that bolt? How high should the fluid be? What should it look like?

[acdii]

If its like a manual, the level is just below the hole. Dont know what fluid they use, but should be clear and clean.

[kuzzi]

Gonna say treat it like a differential if you gotta go in there. No clue about fluid.

 

In the motorbike, we can throw pretty much whatever in the gear case. ATF if you want a grippy clutch (me likey) and a loud tranny, Gear Oil or regular motor oil if you want a quieter, smoother shifting tranny.

Edited March 10, 2014 by kuzzi

[msc928]

Sorry I am very busy at the moment, I will give you the oil spec tomorrow.

oil level see litle picture in the left top corner at the attachment.

[msc928]

Good Morning,

 

The spec of the oil is:

 

Motorcraft® MERCON® LV Automatic Transmission Fluid XT-10-QLVC

 

Capacity 5,4Liter (5.71 qt.), but why do you want to check the oil level? Normally, the transmission does not consume any oil, except it is leaking. Ford recommend to change the transmission fluid every 240.000 Km (150.000 Miles) only (see owner manual page 435). Transmission oil level check is only recommended, if the transmission is not working properly (see owner manual page 257).

But be aware: Transmission fluid should be checked by an authorized dealer. If required, fluid

should be added by an authorized dealer.

 

Have a nice day

 

Wolfgang

[gemdc]

Thanks for the info and pictures of the "transmission" fluid level check bolt. I had looked around there but it is not a very obvious screw or bolt. I was just wanting to verify that the noise I was looking for wasn't caused by low fluid level. There were no leaks so I finally decided the rattle was gear slack that only showed up when the ICE was going from pulling to coasting (no load) condition. Since there are no wet clutches in the Power Split Device like in a regular transmission it seems that a heavier fluid would reduce the noise versus thin ATF. Would not go against the factory recommendations of course.

[lolder]

These shouldn't make any noise other than a slight electrical whirr at very low speeds. All this is warrantied so don't mess with it yourself.

Edited March 17, 2014 by lolder

[gemdc]

My noise in the 13 FFH was only heard when the ICE was running at low speed as power was applied then released. Was also noticeable when the ICE cycled on or off below 25 mph. Like I have noted, it was probably amplified when I homed in on the sound and couldn't tune it out. I think it is reproducible in other FFHs but not a problem for most owners. Getting it warrantied was not going to happen as "within normal limits" was the answer. Never heard anything similar in my 2010 FFH.

Edited March 20, 2014 by gemdc

[acdii]

The 2010 was a totally different animal, took some getting used to the new one. In the 10 I could get on the highway and feather the pedal at 65 MPH and kick it up into the 40 range in moments, but the 13, does not work the same way. The only noise I heard in the 10 was the AC compressor, sounded like it was about to puke its guts out on the ground, but apparently that is normal. I will take a little noise from the ICE in the 13 when it can deliver so much better handling than the 10. The 10 was a nice solid car, but the 13 has so much more to offer.

[Tony Paitakis]

Hello gemdc,

the HF35 Gearbox oil level check is the same as you do on a manual transmission. Se attached file.

If you need more information, don't hesitate to contact me.

Have a nice day.

 

Wolfgang

 

Good info thanks for posting. I want to do an early fluid change I need to know where the drain plug is now for the CVT trans. Any one have a picture of the drain plug to post?

[gemdc]

Really doubt the need for an early oil change in this transmission as it is so unlike what we have understood as a transmission in the past. This is just a couple of electric motors and input shaft from the gasoline motor all interfacing with a planetary gear set under computer control over the use of the electric motors to control torque to the output. No chains. No pulleys. No belts. No clutches. Just gears, shafts, and bearings. Bet this fluid will be clean at 100K miles.

[acdii]

Not only that, but no clutch plates to produce particles with like a regular transmission. No drums, no torque converter to heat up, few moving parts, in fact, aren't all the parts fully meshed?

[gemdc]

Has anyone found a diagram or photo of the Fusion Hybrid HF35 "trans"? Lots of pics of the Prius but Ford added a shaft or two which require more gears. Just curious whether any of the gear pairs have straight cut versus bevel cut gears. Straight cut gears have always been noted for noise when not under power or deceleration. I am just guessing based on the sounds I have heard from my FFH and MKZh that there is at least one set of straight cut gears. There should be a factory service manual that shows the internals by now. Haven't heard that anyone has had a service department take one apart so maybe not a manual as yet.

[hybridbear]

Has anyone found a diagram or photo of the Fusion Hybrid HF35 "trans"? Lots of pics of the Prius but Ford added a shaft or two which require more gears. Just curious whether any of the gear pairs have straight cut versus bevel cut gears. Straight cut gears have always been noted for noise when not under power or deceleration. I am just guessing based on the sounds I have heard from my FFH and MKZh that there is at least one set of straight cut gears. There should be a factory service manual that shows the internals by now. Haven't heard that anyone has had a service department take one apart so maybe not a manual as yet.

If you're interested in data about how the eCVT works you should check out this thread: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1880-obd-ii-data-for-ice/

 

Larryh and I are working together to collect similar data for the FFH. The main difference we expect to find is the gear ratio since we know already that the Energi eCVT has a different gear ratio. We're looking forward to seeing what other differences are revealed by the data.

[gemdc]

Really impressed by the detail you and LarryH have uncovered in the ways the hybrids operate. I noticed that my 2014 MKZh had a 2.91 final drive ratio versus 2.57 for the FFH. Also see that the FFHe has the 2.91 ratio as well. I haven't noticed any difference in rpms displayed at speed between my MKZh and my previous 13 FFH. Wonder whether there is a different program in the ECU for the 2.91s versus the 2.57s. Would think it likely so as to not just spin everything faster to produce the same highway speeds. Another variable in your calculations. Any idea what the logic is to use the 2.91 ratio in the Energi? The Lincoln I assumed because it is a bit heavier so maybe it is in the Energi for the same reason. Will you be able to produce a set of data that could be used to predict the expected mpg at a given speed assuming zero wind at 70 degrees on level ground with 50% SOC? That would be nice. Would save us all a lot of record keeping.

[lolder]

Has anyone found a diagram or photo of the Fusion Hybrid HF35 "trans"? Lots of pics of the Prius but Ford added a shaft or two which require more gears. Just curious whether any of the gear pairs have straight cut versus bevel cut gears. Straight cut gears have always been noted for noise when not under power or deceleration. I am just guessing based on the sounds I have heard from my FFH and MKZh that there is at least one set of straight cut gears. There should be a factory service manual that shows the internals by now. Haven't heard that anyone has had a service department take one apart so maybe not a manual as yet.

I doubt there are any "straight cut gears" in these transmissions. Here's a link to an earlier one but they're all the same architecture with offset shafts instead of inline like the Toyota's. http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f13/introduction-ford-hybrids-20777/

They don't have a chain belt like the Toyota, it's all gears. The whine you sometimes hear is electrical from the MG's or inverters.

[gemdc]

The referenced photos are nice ones of the Aisin built 2010-12 hybrid. Would really like something like this for the 2013-14 showing Ford's HF35 version. It does appear that Aisin used beveled gears and I never heard any rattle in my 2010 FFH. No, the noise I refer to is not a whine but a rattle by my definition. Sure sounds like slack somewhere in the drive train and does come from the transmission housing. No longer a bother since I have decided it is not a defect but a feature. One that needs to go away in the future.

[lolder]

I think the lay-out architecture is the same. I recall seeing a video of the Ford hybrid transmission ( and standard automatic ) assembly line and the transmission resembled the Aisin. The photos are really from the Gen 1 Mariner. Rattles aren't normal ! They should be very smooth and quiet. There were some clicking noises in early drive-shafts that were solved by washers or spacers, I believe. I really wouldn't give up trying to fix a rattle coming from the transmission.

Edited May 4, 2014 by lolder

[acdii]

Mine is noisy, I have 2 distinct sounds emanating from the front when decelerating. One I attribute to the tires, its a thump that I can hear all the time, but more noticeable while braking, the second is a ratcheting whirring noise. I hear that while braking too, but only as I just about come to a stop and can only be heard when the radio is off and it is very quiet in the car. Pretty sure that sound is the motors.

[Christopher B Trentadue]

There's a 10mm plug underneath the plastic master cylinder reservoir that's on the Transmission, it's exactly the same size as the drain plug, I advise you use a Hex bit and Ratchet wrench when losening, it's a knuckle buster be careful not to brake the wire harness clipped right about on top of the plug, if you can remove the harness carefully and set it aside until your completely done, good luck! Thanks

[Christopher B Trentadue]

There's a 10mm plug underneath the plastic master cylinder reservoir that's on the Transmission, it's exactly the same size as the drain plug, I advise you use a Hex bit and Ratchet wrench when losening, it's a knuckle buster be careful not to brake the wire harness clipped right about on top of the plug, if you can remove the harness carefully and set it aside until your completely done, good luck! Thanks

call or text me if you have questions 440-213-7589