Black Box

[DesertSpiritSteve]

I have had the same two problems with my 2010 FFH. I have had the BLIS problem with the blocked left mirror. The dealer seems to have fixed that with a new software upgrade released in November. I have had the dash resetting itself problem. Enlighten to Empower, or what ever. But not recently. The dealer did a software upgrade for the dash at some point. I have had the nav system and juke box go bad. That was the first problem and when I got the car back, the stuff I had ripped to the hard drive was gone. Also, my MP3 player would no longer play content that the car told me was copyright protected. Crazy stuff. AND NOW TODAY I received a phone call from Ford Motor Company from Michigan. They would like for me to participate in a study. They want me to complete a questionaire and return to them. On Jan. 27th. I am scheduled to take the car into a local Ford dealer to have a blackbox installed on the car. They said I will not be able to find it. At the same time I will have an interview with a Ford engineer. At the end of the hour it takes for this, I will be paid $150. The blackbox will remain on the car for a period of one year. At that time I will return to have the blackbox removed, and I will again be paid $150. I told them I would participate. Then I started thinking and getting a little freaked out. With all the cameras and microphone on this car, is this something I really want to do? I would appreciate the thoughts of others. This is the most beautiful and elegant car I have ever owned. However, I can see this car becoming a real electrical nightmare down the road a few years. I will be under extended warranty until June 2017. Until then I will enjoy the 40 miles per gallon and solid heavy ride.

[Grey]

Sounds like a great deal. I guess it will track codes that indicate problems or potential problems. It will let the engineers know if the systems self corrected or if problems persisted.

 

I would gladly participate

[Waldo]

Could be related to your previous problems, but more likely it's just a way for engineers to learn about usage patterns for hybrid drivers. Ford needs to know things like how long people warm up there cars, how far they drive, what kind of acceleration/braking they do and things like that. It helps them prioritize the designs to optimize cost and performance.

 

They'll just be plugging into the existing data link system, so I wouldn't worry about any long term effects.

[lolder]

Ask them to extend the warranty to 10/10,000 bumper to bumper.

[Buster1]

I have heard about these sorts of things, but mainly from Boxes put in at the car's inception, not after the fact. it is probably legit, but does seem a little fishy.

[AptosDriver]

I received a phone call from Ford Motor Company from Michigan. They would like for me to participate in a study. They want me to complete a questionaire and return to them. On Jan. 27th. I am scheduled to take the car into a local Ford dealer to have a blackbox installed on the car. They said I will not be able to find it. At the same time I will have an interview with a Ford engineer. At the end of the hour it takes for this, I will be paid $150. The blackbox will remain on the car for a period of one year. At that time I will return to have the blackbox removed, and I will again be paid $150.

Verrrrry interesting. As one who is still weighing the wisdom of buying a car loaded with all these new electronic bells and whistles, and wondering whether the FFH is on the leading edge or still on the "bleeding edge" this makes me kinda edgy about choosing the FFH over, say, the Toyota Camry hybrid, now in its 5th or 6th model year. The fact that the Ford engineers want to put this box in your car and are willing to pay you $300 for the privilege suggests to me that there are still some serious unknowns (maybe even "unknown unknowns") about the FFH, even for the guys who engineered it. :wacko: Plus, I'm a little concerned about a car that requires so many software updates. At least with a computer, the updates come to you; you don't have to keep taking the computer into the "dealer." Maybe there isn't an FFH in my future, "elegant" though it is. :blink:

Edited January 7, 2011 by AptosDriver

[DesertSpiritSteve]

I have had almost every glitch mentioned in this forum. Had it not been for the forum, I would have thought my family was trying to drive me crazy with tinkering with the car. I paid $34 K for the car June of 2009, and I understand the trade-in is now 20K. It's nearly impossible to find a used one, but apparently that's what it's worth. The dealer tried to convince me that all of the problems were my imagination. I could show them I wasn't the only one, thanks to this forum. That being said, I'm not sure that a Camry would be any better.

[rfruth]

The Fusion hybrid is on the leading edge not the bleeding edge IMO - glad to hear about the black box (sorry its needed at all) but when problems crop up at least we don't hear it will be fixed next model year so tough it out for now (if you can get them to admit there is a problem in the first place) not sure how end users could apply software updates without a trip to the dealer, via the OBDII port, use sync ? (hopefully how to best supply updates is being thought about)

[AptosDriver]

The Fusion hybrid is on the leading edge not the bleeding edge IMO - glad to hear about the black box (sorry its needed at all) but when problems crop up at least we don't hear it will be fixed next model year so tough it out for now (if you can get them to admit there is a problem in the first place) not sure how end users could apply software updates without a trip to the dealer, via the OBDII port, use sync ? (hopefully how to best supply updates is being thought about)

Well even though I used to change my own oil for years -- and even learned how to adjust the valves on my first car, a '71 VW Super Beetle -- I would of course never expect to install a software upgrade in a car myself. It just concerns me, from following this forum, that there have been so many of 'em. I want to buy a reliable car, not a buggy computer with an engine, wheels and seats attached to it. :shift:

[rfruth]

I don't consider the FFH a buggy computer with an engine, wheels and seats attached to it. (it's a funny line though :)) there hasn't been all that many updates, no show stoppers - not trouble free but what is ?

[lolder]

There has been one software update on the brakes that was not a mandatory recall and another TSB for the instrument panel random mode reset. The mode reset caused no drive-ability problems and they may still be refining that TSB which I suspect is the motivation for the black box request.

[CometFlash]

I'm in just the opposite frame of mind. The Fusion won 2010 Car Of The Year, and the Fusion Hybrid was picked by Consumer Reports as the #1 Most Reliable car of the year, with the regular gas version of the Fusion being the #2 Most Reliable car of the year.

 

My only concern was going from a 4x4 pickup to a 2wd car for winter driving. Other than that I have zero qualms about picking up an FFH or MKZH. Just gotta decide either Ford or Lincoln, and either White Platinum or Red Candy. That Red Candy is starting to reallt grow on me for the MKZH, helps to dispel the old way of thinking when Lincolns were no-style vehicles just for old men with extra cash. The Red Candy really makes it "pop" and give a sportier, more youthful appearance. Then again, I do love the White Sand Tri-Coat on my '09 Platinum. Decisions, decisions.

 

Oh, for what it's worth; I'd never consider a toyota of any kind. But that's just my opinion, obviously. If I didn't like the FFH/MKZH, I'd sooner look into a chevy volt or the ugly Escape for an MPG-Lite vehicle choice. In fact, Ford will most likely be showing some all-new Escape first photo's at the NAIAS next week. Let's hope this time it isn't butt ugly like the current one. There are also rumors they may give sneak peeks or early snippets of other MPG-Lite vehicle plans at the show as well. I'd love to hear something about the all-new '13 FFH/MKZH, but it's probably one year too early for that to materialize at the show yet.

[DesertSpiritSteve]

I'm not the only FFH black box participant. I will try to see if the Ford engineer will tell me how many participants there are here in Phoenix and in the US. Then I'll post it here if you're interested. I'm so proud of Ford for making a come back in these bad economic times. It's looking like we're going to have some gas price increases soon. Then I'll be happier with the car. It's the perfect town car. I could just do without all the electrical poltergeist stuff. I have had the car for nineteen months and 14,000 miles now.

[Waldo]

I'm not the only FFH black box participant. I will try to see if the Ford engineer will tell me how many participants there are here in Phoenix and in the US. Then I'll post it here if you're interested. I'm so proud of Ford for making a come back in these bad economic times. It's looking like we're going to have some gas price increases soon. Then I'll be happier with the car. It's the perfect town car. I could just do without all the electrical poltergeist stuff. I have had the car for nineteen months and 14,000 miles now.

 

Well you didn't say you're in Phoenix! Hot weather performance is one of the most difficult challenges of battery equipped vehicles, I'd say it's 99% probability that the study is just to measure battery temperatures in normal customer usage.

[AptosDriver]

I'm in just the opposite frame of mind. The Fusion won 2010 Car Of The Year, and the Fusion Hybrid was picked by Consumer Reports as the #1 Most Reliable car of the year, with the regular gas version of the Fusion being the #2 Most Reliable car of the year.

 

I know, I know. That's why I'm considering the FFH in the first place. But that CR reliability rating, for the 2010 model, was for predicted reliability, and there's the rub. :wacko:

 

Other than that I have zero qualms about picking up an FFH or MKZH. Just gotta decide either Ford or Lincoln .... Decisions, decisions.

Well, here's some information, based on invoice info from Consumer Reports, that might help you in your decision. I estimate that even with the best deal I could get on an MKZH with a sunroof and no NAV (don't want it; cheaper to get a brand new "loaded" GPS) the car would still cost me more than $38,400 "out-the-door" here in California. My "best deal" would be invoice, plus half the car's $687 dealer "holdback," which I would split with the dealership. Following the same negotiating strategy and price target, an FFH with heated leather seats, a sunroof and no NAV (I found four of those at a San Jose Ford-only dealership) would cost about $33,270, including sales tax (9% in California right now) and license fees. The only differences between the two cars would be the plusher interior trim and air-conditioned seats in the MKZ. And to me, that's not worth paying the $5,130 premium for an MKZH over an FFH. Is it really worth it for you?:unsure:

 

Oh, for what it's worth; I'd never consider a toyota of any kind.

Well for many years after a less-than-satisfactory experience with a 1978 Toyota Corona wagon, I felt that way too. But then when the larger, redesigned RAV4 came out in '06, I reconsidered. And in April '07, I bought an AWD six-cylinder RAV4 limited with heated leather seats, sunroof and an excellent six-speaker stereo system (my iPhone/iPod sounds great through it). The RAV has some drawbacks -- hard, uninviting interior plastics and not enough thigh support in the six-ways-to Sunday power driver's seat -- but I love this car. It's the most powerful vehicle I've ever owned -- and the smoothest, provided you keep a feather-light touch on the gas pedal. It gets about 19 mpg driving strictly on "surface streets", 22-23 mpg in mixed driving and a surprising 28-30 mpg on extended road trips. As John Prine once sang, "pretty good, not bad, can't complain ..." My original thinking in getting this car was that it would give us a versatile alternative to our Volvo S70 sedan, plus it would be great as a ski car. Unfortunately, the first time I took it up to Tahoe, I fell on ice apres-ski and shattered my right hip socket. Haven't been skiing since. :wacko: Oh, and by the way, Consumer Reports rated the RAV the best small SUV two years running. :drool:

[akirby]

Well for many years after a less-than-satisfactory experience with a 1978 Toyota Corona wagon, I felt that way too. But then when the larger, redesigned RAV4 came out in '06, I reconsidered. And in April '07, I bought an AWD six-cylinder RAV4 limited with heated leather seats, sunroof and an excellent six-speaker stereo system (my iPhone/iPod sounds great through it). The RAV has some drawbacks -- hard, uninviting interior plastics and not enough thigh support in the six-ways-to Sunday power driver's seat -- but I love this car. It's the most powerful vehicle I've ever owned -- and the smoothest, provided you keep a feather-light touch on the gas pedal. It gets about 19 mpg driving strictly on "surface streets", 22-23 mpg in mixed driving and a surprising 28-30 mpg on extended road trips. As John Prine once sang, "pretty good, not bad, can't complain ..." My original thinking in getting this car was that it would give us a versatile alternative to our Volvo S70 sedan, plus it would be great as a ski car. Unfortunately, the first time I took it up to Tahoe, I fell on ice apres-ski and shattered my right hip socket. Haven't been skiing since. :wacko: Oh, and by the way, Consumer Reports rated the RAV the best small SUV two years running. :drool:

 

It's not the products, it's supporting a company that lies and tries to cover up serious problems. They've been doing this for years under the radar until last year when the crap hit the fan.

 

And it will get worse as the lawsuits progress and more information comes out.

[CometFlash]

You're right about the price difference between the two. I'm still wavering back n forth between the two. I like the MKZH because of the better sound deadening, comfier ride/seating, and the HID headlamps and LED taillamps. But is it worth the extra cash for those items? Trying to decide. I intend to keep this car for at least 10 years so I want to be happy and enjoy it for such a long period of time. On the other hand, I'm buying it to save money on fuel so I can put more towards my mortgage payments each month, and the FFH would certainly cost less, thereby saving me some more cash. 10k average diff in price isn't a major amount of cash, yet it isn't chump change either. I just don't know.

 

Since this will be your wife's car, and she doesn't like all the gadgets, obviuosly that would be a consideration for you that isn't the same for me, as this will be my car and I love all the gadgets. :P That could push me to the MKZH, where it might push you to the FFH, who knows.

 

I did find out that the MKZH for 2011 has a new roof which helps it best the IIHS roof-safety-crash tests, which is nice if you think you might ever be in a rollover situation. I imagine they did the same for the 2011 FFH since it's basically the same car, but not 100% sure on that.

 

As far as toyota, they've never impressed me. But it was never to do with reliability, I just never cared for their exterior designs, nor their interior fit, finish or quality. But I'm sure, as you stated, they make many relaible vehicles as well. To me, the FFH just looks more modern and fresh compared to the camry, but that's just my own personal taste of course. I was checking out the chevy volt the other day. Have you seen the interior of that thing? Very bizarre, like you're inside the space shuttle or something, very white and bland; another analogy might be like a hospital where everything is white, spartan, and clinical. Didn't care for that at all.

[AptosDriver]

Since this will be your wife's car, and she doesn't like all the gadgets, obviuosly that would be a consideration for you ...

The gadgets would actually be a consideration for me, in that when we travel by car together, I'm the designated driver, mainly because when we were first married 15 years ago, I didn't like her driving. She's a very safe driver, but a bit too timid for my taste. More recently, I've come to accept her driving style more (and even come around to it myself in some ways), but I still prefer to be in the driver's seat. However with the FFH, she could drive while I play with the gadgets.

 

As far as toyota, they've never impressed me. But it was never to do with reliability, I just never cared for their exterior designs, nor their interior fit, finish or quality.

I didn't like the exterior of the original RAV4, but the '06 models and on are much better, once you get used to the spare tire that's mounted the outside of the rear door. (It's a full-size tire, by the way.) Interior fit is fine, but the materials are admittedly coldly functional and uninviting. I've learned to live with it.

[oldschool1962]

I'd have to say that based off of my experience...all ranting and raving at the time aside.....this is one heck of aa admirable thing to do. It really shows the commitment by Ford to make sure they can identify these issues and have solutions or at the very least answers for people. I've owned quite a few vehicles in my day...actually more than I care to name but I can say that 90% of those vehicles have been Fords. (Honda accoubts for the remaining 10%). What Ford ended up doing for us, a few other things we've seen lately and with hearing this gesture......I'm very happy to say I'm a Ford owner.

[AptosDriver]

I'd have to say that based off of my experience...all ranting and raving at the time aside.....this is one heck of aa admirable thing to do. It really shows the commitment by Ford to make sure they can identify these issues and have solutions or at the very least answers for people.

I agree with you. It impresses me as well and gives me more confidence in Ford, especially since I've never owned one before.:shift:

[rpreuss]

I'm not the only FFH black box participant. I will try to see if the Ford engineer will tell me how many participants there are here in Phoenix and in the US. Then I'll post it here if you're interested. I'm so proud of Ford for making a come back in these bad economic times. It's looking like we're going to have some gas price increases soon. Then I'll be happier with the car. It's the perfect town car. I could just do without all the electrical poltergeist stuff. I have had the car for nineteen months and 14,000 miles now.

 

Yesterday, I got a call from Morepace with the same offer. They asked me a few questions to make sure I was keeping the car for a while, and then explained the Black Box, the $150 + $150, and will be sending me the details to participate. I have an appointment in early February at a not-too-local dealership to have the box installed.

 

I have close to 18,000 miles, have never had any problems other than one "reset", and have had the brake re-flash.

 

So, lets keep in touch with this one. We know at least two people that will have the box. Maybe. I too, was told I would meet with a Ford engineer.

 

BTW, this is in New Jersey.

[pippin65]

I also have opted to participate in the black box study

[Dclifford110910]

What Is it?

[rpreuss]

I also have opted to participate in the black box study

 

Have any of you already had the "Black Box" installed?

 

I was wondering 2 things... How did they connect it to the car? (ODB-II plug?) And did they tell you exactly what kind of data they were going to be capturing?

 

My appointment is for next week.

[savngas]

25k since may and no problems except for answering 1000 questions about how do i like it?

I love it...this thing is a rocket @ 35MPG avg!

:happy feet: