Question about fuel injector cleaners and a quick update on my FFH

[oldschool1962]

This past summer I ran into some issues surrounding my lawn and garden equipment and the Ethanol mixed fuels. The little carbs, on both two and four stroke engines, became rather gummed up and basically useless. Basically the corn has a tendency to create serious issues with gumming and some major cleaning is required.

 

This got me thinking lately about the use of a decent cleaner in not only my FFH but the wife's Prius. Normally and when we owned non-hybrid vehicles, I would use these every 5000 miles or for every oil change. But since the hybrid doesn't perform like any non hybrid and oil change intervals are 10.000 miles, should I start using the 5000 mile rule?

 

 

Now for the quick update on the replacement vehicle.

 

We just crossed over the 10,000 mile mark and not a single symptom, issue or otherwise that presented itself in the first car has come up. I finally figured our the BLIS malfunction was caused by RF interference and this came to mind when I was driving past the munitions recoverey range on the way to swim practice. Happens every time I hit a certain section of the facility and also when I get near a truck with a two way radio so I figure it can't be anything else.

 

I talked about a buck or skip in the old car when I would hover around the 45mph mark. This car has been so smooth I don't ever realize that the car transitions back and forth. Mileage has been horrible but also has been the weather and....... I was having too much fun showing some of the folks that this is not a whimpy hybrid for a while there. Getting back into a more conservative driving rhythm is bringing things back into line and the weather is improving too.

 

The only thing I can report now is that when I use the Navigation, the destination will not clear out of the system when we reach it....even after the car has been tunrned off. Not a big issue at all since we don't use the Nav too often so when I get in for the 15k check-up I'll follow up with my Service Manager.

 

Other than that this car has been a pleasure to own and drive.

 

I also did ask about update and upgrades to Sync....I was told to look for something come May available from the Syncmyride site.

 

Later.

Edited January 3, 2011 by oldschool1962

[VonoreTn]

Hi Oldschool, good to hear from you. We've got 28K on our FFH now, without any issues, other than the tire I had to replace when my Wife accidentally pinched the right front tire on a sharp curb at parking speed, but that doesn't count, as I told her, that comes out of the sh__happens fund, could have just as easily happened to me.

 

Our nav instruction does quit as expected, usually when we get within a hundred feet of our destination. Says our destination is ahead on the right or left. We use the way point a lot, like if we want a rest stop, we find the next one under destination, set it as a way point, then it reminds us when it's coming up, without impacting the final destination.

 

This is the second winter the fuel economy dropped, not sure why the FFH doesn't like the cold. Seems to do best in the summer with full AC on. Part of the drop is as we travel more we are going a little faster, maybe 5 over in a 70 now, I did slow down to 65 for a stretch on our last 1000 mile trip from Austin and the FFH estimator showed the average go back up to a solid 40 mpg, so it is partially our faster pace on the last trip.

 

I use a fuel injector cleaner about every 5K miles, always have, and I have never had a fuel injector issue, even on our 2000 Explorer at 187K miles. Be sure it says injector cleaner, not just a gas treatment. It's a bargain considering what a dealer will charge you if you even mention the word fuel injector to the service manager, based on what friends tell me.

[VonoreTn]

Regarding the lawnmower 2 stroke engine and gas issue, as a hobby, I fix neighbors 2 and 4 stroke small engines. Usually I don't need to buy any parts, just clean out the carb, blow out all the holes, take out the mixture screws, blow them out, run solvent through them (I have a solvent tank with a pump), pull the top and bottom off the little carbs (often Zama's and Walbros) and check for bad seals or clogged ports. I sand blast the plug, check the spark, and lately I have had several of the cylinder heads come loose on 2 strokes. Actually, they are not just heads, they are the entire cylinder. There are only 2 bolts holding them on, and they won't run with a loose head. Now and then there is one that just won't respond to anything but that is rare. While these new 2 stroke engines have been incredibly thrifted in their design, the good news is they are much easier to take apart then the older ones with more sophisticated designs.

 

I think the best way to deal with these engines for fuel clogging is go out in your garage in the middle of winter, and start every one of them and run them for a minute. That cleans them out, and it's faster than draining all the fuel and running them dry. Also, you can probably find one station within 10 miles of you that has pure gas, no alcohol. It's almost required, since many older engines were not designed for any alcohol, like their rubber hoses won't take it. So take a 5 gallon can and fill it up there, and you will have less gas line issues. I would still start them all up mid off season though. And don't put too much oil in the gas of 2 strokes. Follow the recommendations in your manual for how much oil.

[rpoffen]

 

Now for the quick update on the replacement vehicle.

 

We just crossed over the 10,000 mile mark and not a single symptom, issue or otherwise that presented itself in the first car has come up. I finally figured our the BLIS malfunction was caused by RF interference and this came to mind when I was driving past the munitions recoverey range on the way to swim practice. Happens every time I hit a certain section of the facility and also when I get near a truck with a two way radio so I figure it can't be anything else.

 

The only thing I can report now is that when I use the Navigation, the destination will not clear out of the system when we reach it....even after the car has been tunrned off. Not a big issue at all since we don't use the Nav too often so when I get in for the 15k check-up I'll follow up with my Service Manager.

 

Other than that this car has been a pleasure to own and drive.

 

I also did ask about update and upgrades to Sync....I was told to look for something come May available from the Syncmyride site.

 

Later.

 

Hi oldschool1962,

 

I followed your thread before with the first vehicle. Good to hear all is well with the replacement. I wish we could find out what Ford did with the original and what they find out about the problem.

 

On the Nav, like most Nav systems (built-in or aftermarket), when you get to an address, the location for the address is predicted by various features and other address ranges on the street. Sometime they are off by a bit, and show the destination as a little further away that they really are. Until you actually reach the calculated location, it doesn't clear the destination. This happens at my place of work since the addresses are funky down the street because it it transitions from residential and small businesses where there is a small distance between large swings of address numbers, then it goes to large business buildings that take half a block for a single address, so it show the location for my work about 400 feet further down the street.

[oldschool1962]

What has been happening lately is the system will make the announcment "you have reached your destination" and the screen confirms this. I power the car off and then when I get back in....the screen is blank. when I hit the map or even the Travel link the system shows a Checkered flag for the destination, even affter all I just mentioned. I hit the destination button and "cancel destination" button is active.

 

Still no bog deal and certainly nothing that will create any issues. Everything functions great except for that little glitch and that's how I am taking it...a litle computer glitch. Anyhow, we just keep motoring along. Headed to either Lynchburg or Newport News next month for swimming district champs so the nav will get a solid workout. That way I can actually see what is happening for when I bring the car in for the oil change at 15k (the dealership mistakenly changed the oil at 5k so I'm off sequence).

 

As far as the injector cleaner goes...I've never used anything like a straight fuel aditive.....always a fuel system cleaner and....... do I wish I had a garage to go out to and fire up my equipment inand even work on the car. Sure mis having a garage. Hopefully one will be in the cards soon.

[rpreuss]

What has been happening lately is the system will make the announcment "you have reached your destination" and the screen confirms this. I power the car off and then when I get back in....the screen is blank. when I hit the map or even the Travel link the system shows a Checkered flag for the destination, even affter all I just mentioned. I hit the destination button and "cancel destination" button is active.

 

Still no bog deal and certainly nothing that will create any issues. Everything functions great except for that little glitch and that's how I am taking it...a litle computer glitch.

 

I don't think that is a glitch/bug. It is a "feature" :banghead: . Mine, and I would assume ALL of the Ford Nav systems behave that way. The checkered flag is showing your most recent destination. If you cancel the destination, it goes away. You will note that even though you have the checkered flag showing, there is no route. That was cleared when you "reached your destination."

[oldschool1962]

I don't think that is a glitch/bug. It is a "feature" :banghead: . Mine, and I would assume ALL of the Ford Nav systems behave that way. The checkered flag is showing your most recent destination. If you cancel the destination, it goes away. You will note that even though you have the checkered flag showing, there is no route. That was cleared when you "reached your destination."

 

Ahhh haaaaaaaaa. I see. No problem then.

[AptosDriver]

Now for the quick update on the replacement vehicle.

 

We just crossed over the 10,000 mile mark and not a single symptom, issue or otherwise that presented itself in the first car has come up.

I talked about a buck or skip in the old car when I would hover around the 45mph mark. This car has been so smooth I don't ever realize that the car transitions back and forth. .... this car has been a pleasure to own and drive.

I am mulling over (and over, and over, and over) whether to replace my wife's '00 Volvo S70 GLT (113,000 miles on it now) with an FFH or a Camry hybrid. As part of my mulling, I've been spending a lot of time (too much time, actually) in this forum trying to scope out what issues people might be having with this car that is just going into its second model year. After seeing this post, I couldn't find your original thread, so I am begging the question: What was wrong with your first FFH and why did the dealer "reacquire" it? (And how did that work out for you financially?) Having once been burdened with a lemon car -- a yellow first-gen '75 VW Rabbit (before the advent of "lemon laws") I am twice shy about getting burned again. I'm impressed by the FFH, but I'm really concerned about ending up with a fancy, high-tech passel of trouble. I don't worry so much about the Camry hybrid, since it's now in its sixth model year or so, and presumably the early bugs have been purged from it, plus the Toyota service technicians -- they're not just mechanics anymore -- have by now seen all the problems that might crop up and -- I would hope -- know how to deal with them.

 

By the way, the wife likes her Volvo just fine. We could probably keep it for several more years (or more). In fact, I would not want to replace it with a conventional car right now. But I'm thinking that with gas prices headed north probably for good, it's time to get a hybrid, so why not get one and sell the Volvo while it's still worth something?

Edited January 8, 2011 by AptosDriver

[rfruth]

Hey Aptos glad you are doing research ! What is the resale value of a 11 year old Volvo with 110,000 + miles on it worth ? (no need to answer, if you or yours wants to keep on driving it let her !) - whats better the TCH or the FFH, reliably about the same, resale value who knows, tech & MPG easily goes to the Fusion :)

[AptosDriver]

Hey Aptos glad you are doing research ! What is the resale value of a 11 year old Volvo with 110,000 + miles on it worth ?

According to Kelley's it's worth $5,210 in a private sale, in good condition, :P which ours is, although it would actually need new tires to fully qualify. The Michelin Pilot Exaltos on it now have 60,000 miles on 'em and have seen better days ...

[rfruth]

So the Volvo is worth 5 grand, if someone is happy driving that let um ! a decent 21 century vehicle is 30 K - 40 K for a tricked out Lincoln - is it worth it, you tell me - Japanese no thanks

[Davidoo]

I am mulling over (and over, and over, and over) whether to replace my wife's '00 Volvo S70 GLT (113,000 miles on it now) with an FFH or a Camry hybrid.

 

The FFH is much nicer inside, looks better outside, gets better mileage (pretty sure I saw this on one of these forums or in an ad.....sorry I'm too lazy to research it) and is made by a good USA owned company that did not take bailout money. With our economy the way it is I don't understand given a choice why people buy Japanese especially now that the Toyota quality myth has been exposed.

 

No, I don't work for Ford, and yes I know the Fusion is assembled in Hermosillo, Mexico.

[oldschool1962]

Aptos,,

 

Had another poster here send me a pm about the prior vehicle. The original post are buried somewhere in months of posts since then. To quickly summarize things.....no one that I know of every could figure out the issues. That was probably the main reason for the re acquirement. Well that and a Service Manager that could recognize we had issues but couldn't get things replicated. It's my opinion that there was an issue with the computer but since they reacquired the vehicle, I haven't inquired about the old one. That's all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned so if you are considering the FFH...a vehicle from a company that I highly recommend.....buy a 2011 or drive the Volvo for another year so Ford gets an additional year of production under it's belt. There were some really nice changes to the vehicle throughout the last year or so...some known and some very discrete.

 

Anyhow, We looked at the Camry and I believe we made the correct decision going with the FFH. We purchased a Prius the month before and we made this decision even after the Prius purchase. There were some circumstances that helped this along but if I really wanted to I could have worked on things to make those circumstance disappear. The FFH was and is the way to go.

 

It will be interesting to see what comes of the HEV vehicles over the next couple months or years. Everyone is getting into this and with gas prices once again hovering around or over $3.00 a gallon....we may see some very positive things for us as owners of these vehicles.

 

Just remember, there are always going to be things we as vehicle owners can and will pick apart or wish was different about the vehicles. For the most part, manufacturers will try and adapt things to add these components or characteristics to things but it will take time.

[AptosDriver]

Oldschool, thanks for your very informed, informative and helpful reply. I wouldn't be moving on a car purchase until this coming fall at the earliest in any case, and by then the '12 FFHs will be coming out. I assume that by the third model year, Ford will have worked a lot of the bugs out of this car, plus their service departments will be much more familiar with whatever kinds of problems they may have and better able to solve them. And by then, Consumer Reports will have accumulated more real-world feedback on the FFH and will be able to do more than predict its reliability. So I'll watch and wait. Best of luck to you with your second FFH. It sure would be interesting to know if they ever figured out what was wrong with the first one. By the way, there's another FFH owner on the forum who's getting a "black box" in his FFH courtesy of Ford's engineers (you may have already seen his post). They're paying him to let them do this and he'll be driving around with it for a year. In effect, his FFH has become a Ford lab rat (FLRH?). I'm sure they're going to learn something from his car and it impresses me that they're making the effort!

[AptosDriver]

The FFH is much nicer inside, looks better outside, gets better mileage (pretty sure I saw this on one of these forums or in an ad.....sorry I'm too lazy to research it) and is made by a good USA owned company that did not take bailout money. With our economy the way it is I don't understand given a choice why people buy Japanese especially now that the Toyota quality myth has been exposed.

 

No, I don't work for Ford, and yes I know the Fusion is assembled in Hermosillo, Mexico.

I agree that the FFH is a great car and may well be preferable to the Camry hybrid. That's why I'm seriously considering it. It's also great that an American company is making it, although given the fact that just about all cars on the market now contain parts from everywhere, I'm not sure what that means anymore. Not only is the FFH assembled in Mexico, but I believe if you look at the sticker, you'll see that its "domestic content" is actually around 50 percent, so half of it is "imported." The same probably holds true for the Camry, although it's assembled in Kentucky.

 

Finally, as for Ford not taking bailout money, the company was already well managed enough (another point in Ford's favor) that it didn't need any. But I wouldn't hold bailout acceptance against GM and Chrysler. From a buyer's standpoint, the only thing that should really matter is the comparative quality of their products. If either company was building a better mousetrap than Ford, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, VW, or any other manufacturer you could name, I would look at it. But I don't think they are -- yet. Early last year, I drove a Chevy Equinox rental for a couple of weeks while my '07 RAV4 was at a body shop (somebody backed into it and smashed the tail light and severely dented the left-rear panel) and I did not like it.

 

In any case, the bailout not only saved GM's and Chrysler's bacon and saved their American employees' jobs, it also saved thousands of jobs at domestic parts suppliers for those companies and no doubt some of Ford's as well. On balance, I think it was a good deal for U.S. workers, plus U.S. taxpayers might even turn a profit on their investment in GM stock. In the meantime all those workers whose jobs were saved are not only still employed; they're also paying their taxes instead of drawing unemployment and buying their groceries with food stamps. All in all, I'd have to say it was an all-around good deal. I know this forum is not and shouldn't be a place for political discussions, but since you raised the issue, I felt compelled to respond. Vive la difference (and pardon my French).

[rfruth]

The Camry hybrid is manufactured at Toyota's Georgetown, Kentucky plant AND at the Tsutsumi plant in Toyota City, Japan. Guess you'd have to look at each cars VIN to tell but it not a big deal to me. Where does the money end up that is a big deal ...

[AptosDriver]

The FFH is ... made by a good USA owned company that did not take bailout money.

Hi again, Davidoo,

 

Just as an addendum to my previous post, if you're interested in reading in some detail about the auto bailout, check out this report by the Congressional Research Service. In addition to a discussion about GM and Chrysler there's an informative section about Ford and why it didn't need any bailout money. In this section, the report notes the following about Ford:

 

Applying overseas technologies and styling to future vehicles. Ford's new lineup

of midsize cars and smaller SUVs, including the Ford Escape, Mercury Mariner,

Ford Edge, and Lincoln MKX, use an architecture developed originally by

Mazda for one of its midsize vehicles. Ford's European engineering centers are

developing the underpinnings of vehicles that will be sold in the United States,

such as the Fiesta subcompact, a car that will be assembled in Cuautitlan,

Mexico [emphases mine]. Ford is increasingly using common platforms and components

worldwide, a concept that Ford CEO Alan Mulally has dubbed "One Ford."

 

So Ford is a lot more than a good old USA-owned company. It's a global company, as are all the other auto manufacturers these days -- Hondas assembeled in Ohio, Camrys assembled in Kentucky, FFH's built in Hermosillo, Fiestas in Cuautitlan (Ross Perot was right about that "great sucking sound"), and so forth. As a consumer, I don't especially care where a car is built (although it would be nice to know my purchase will support American workers), as long as it's a good car. But as an American citizen, I'm concerned that we're not making enough "stuff" here these days. It's going to take a concerted joint effort by our industrialists and our government to turn this around ...

[AptosDriver]

The Camry hybrid is manufactured at Toyota's Georgetown, Kentucky plant AND at the Tsutsumi plant in Toyota City, Japan. Guess you'd have to look at each cars VIN to tell but it not a big deal to me. Where does the money end up that is a big deal ...

You're right about that; it's the big deal. As a onetime Toyota and Honda stockholder, I actually benefited significantly from that aspect of the equation, both in terms of dividends and eventual capital gains. That money, at least, ended up in my pocket and I spent it here -- on a Toyota RAV4 manufactured in Japan. Oops! :drop: