TonyF Report post Posted June 13, 2010 Hi all, Just got my FFH last Monday. Love the car. It is my first american car since my '66 American Motors Ambassador back in 1966! Have had a Fiat, Volvo, Saab and then 5 Mercedes since 1985. Was ready to buy another when my son thought I should take off my blinders and look at some other cars. The FFH blew me away. I did not think Americans could make such a car! Ford has a real winner here. My wife wants me to drive with the headlights on all the time for safety reasons. I've been reluctant to keep them on during the day thinking that it might have a negative impact on the fuel economy. But then I got thinking about the fact that the car is supposed to function on gasoline if the high voltage battery fails. If that is the case, surely the lights must be powered by the low voltage battery. So, does the headlight power come from the low voltage battery? I have several related questions related to the charging and use of each battery. Does the FFH have an alternator that charges the low voltage battery. Are the usual 12 volt components (lights, radio, blowers, seat motors, seat heaters, a/c compressor, windshield wipers) powered by the low voltage battery? Does the usage of any of these components have any adverse effect on fuel economy. Does the high voltage battery have any function other than powering the electric hybrid motor? If this topic has been dealt with before, please point me in that direction. I would appreciate any answers to my questions. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FFHdriver Report post Posted June 13, 2010 Hi all, Just got my FFH last Monday. Love the car. It is my first american car since my '66 American Motors Ambassador back in 1966! Have had a Fiat, Volvo, Saab and then 5 Mercedes since 1985. Was ready to buy another when my son thought I should take off my blinders and look at some other cars. The FFH blew me away. I did not think Americans could make such a car! Ford has a real winner here. My wife wants me to drive with the headlights on all the time for safety reasons. I've been reluctant to keep them on during the day thinking that it might have a negative impact on the fuel economy. But then I got thinking about the fact that the car is supposed to function on gasoline if the high voltage battery fails. If that is the case, surely the lights must be powered by the low voltage battery. So, does the headlight power come from the low voltage battery? I have several related questions related to the charging and use of each battery. Does the FFH have an alternator that charges the low voltage battery. Are the usual 12 volt components (lights, radio, blowers, seat motors, seat heaters, a/c compressor, windshield wipers) powered by the low voltage battery? Does the usage of any of these components have any adverse effect on fuel economy. Does the high voltage battery have any function other than powering the electric hybrid motor? If this topic has been dealt with before, please point me in that direction. I would appreciate any answers to my questions. Thank you.Get the dealer to turn your DRLs on. Thecar doesn't have an alternator. The high voltage battery keeps the 12v battery charged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted June 14, 2010 Hi all, Just got my FFH last Monday. Love the car. It is my first american car since my '66 American Motors Ambassador back in 1966! Have had a Fiat, Volvo, Saab and then 5 Mercedes since 1985. Was ready to buy another when my son thought I should take off my blinders and look at some other cars. The FFH blew me away. I did not think Americans could make such a car! Ford has a real winner here. My wife wants me to drive with the headlights on all the time for safety reasons. I've been reluctant to keep them on during the day thinking that it might have a negative impact on the fuel economy. But then I got thinking about the fact that the car is supposed to function on gasoline if the high voltage battery fails. If that is the case, surely the lights must be powered by the low voltage battery. So, does the headlight power come from the low voltage battery? I have several related questions related to the charging and use of each battery. Does the FFH have an alternator that charges the low voltage battery. Are the usual 12 volt components (lights, radio, blowers, seat motors, seat heaters, a/c compressor, windshield wipers) powered by the low voltage battery? Does the usage of any of these components have any adverse effect on fuel economy. Does the high voltage battery have any function other than powering the electric hybrid motor? If this topic has been dealt with before, please point me in that direction. I would appreciate any answers to my questions. Thank you.Everything is powered by the 12 v.d.c. system except the AC compressor and the EV, eCVT system. That is charged from the high voltage battery (HVB) by a one direction DC to DC converter (HVB to 12 v.). There is no alternator or conventional starter motor. The engine (ICE) is started from the HVB by driving motor/generator 1, (MG1) which also controls the transmission and charges the HVB. MG2 is the bigger traction/braking device. The car will not operate at all without a functioning HVB as it controls the transmission. The low beam headlights reduce mpg by about 0.5 % and hi-beams 1.0 %. Every electrical device uses energy which must come from gasoline and the ICE. The biggest loads are the AC compressor, and electrically heated devices. You can see all these loads on the ACC meter in "Empower" dash display mode. For instance, when you turn the wipers on, the headlights go on and you can see a slight rise in ACC load. The headlights go off 30 secs. after the wipers are turned off. Some panel lights dim during this activity. Sometimes the ACC loads exceed the energy needed to move the car. Drive lights are standard in Canada but can be activated by your dealer in the US. If so, they are complicated to turn off. They'll cost almost 0.5 %. This car will be smarter than you for a long time. You really should read the manual several times and spend several hours to read this entire FFH forum. Just about everything has been discussed here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oman Report post Posted June 14, 2010 I think the more direct answer to the question is: Everything is driven by the HVB when the car is on. Many things are 12V and the 12V is supplied by a DC to DC converter that drops the high voltage down. The 12V battery is used only to power the 12V items when the car is off and it is used like a giant capacitor (evening out the power flow when the loads change) on the 12V side. The 12V battery is also used for an instant when you turn on the ignition to engage the high voltage cut-off relay. This is why you cant "start" the car with a completely dead 12V battery. If somehow the HVB ends up dead the car won't start either (and your warranty will likely be void) because the HVB drives MG2 to start the ICE. Just like in any car nothing is truly "free" and there is a cost to using any accessory. The 160 watts or so extra used by the headlights will make a tiny hit on mileage, likely about the same as one slightly heavier press on the accelerator. Even heat in a regular car isn't quite free as the cabin air blower needs to draw current to blow the heat into the cabin. Jon Everything is powered by the 12 v.d.c. system except the AC compressor and the EV, eCVT system. That is charged from the high voltage battery (HVB) by a one direction DC to DC converter (HVB to 12 v.). There is no alternator or conventional starter motor. The engine (ICE) is started from the HVB by driving motor/generator 1, (MG1) which also controls the transmission and charges the HVB. MG2 is the bigger traction/braking device. The car will not operate at all without a functioning HVB as it controls the transmission. The low beam headlights reduce mpg by about 0.5 % and hi-beams 1.0 %. Every electrical device uses energy which must come from gasoline and the ICE. The biggest loads are the AC compressor, and electrically heated devices. You can see all these loads on the ACC meter in "Empower" dash display mode. For instance, when you turn the wipers on, the headlights go on and you can see a slight rise in ACC load. The headlights go off 30 secs. after the wipers are turned off. Some panel lights dim during this activity. Sometimes the ACC loads exceed the energy needed to move the car. Drive lights are standard in Canada but can be activated by your dealer in the US. If so, they are complicated to turn off. They'll cost almost 0.5 %. This car will be smarter than you for a long time. You really should read the manual several times and spend several hours to read this entire FFH forum. Just about everything has been discussed here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyF Report post Posted June 15, 2010 Thank you, all, for your expert explanations of the function of the two batteries. Yes, I will read the manuals a bit more thoroughly and the related topics in this form. A 0.5% hit on the decrease of efficiency seems a small price to pay for the sight increase in safety. Again, thank you all for taking the time for answering my seemingly naive question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted June 15, 2010 Thank you, all, for your expert explanations of the function of the two batteries. Yes, I will read the manuals a bit more thoroughly and the related topics in this form. A 0.5% hit on the decrease of efficiency seems a small price to pay for the sight increase in safety. Again, thank you all for taking the time for answering my seemingly naive question.They were good questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikenmar Report post Posted June 16, 2010 I have a related question: Suppose I plug something into the AC outlet, and it runs down the battery. Will I be unable to start the car? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldschool1962 Report post Posted June 16, 2010 .........If somehow the HVB ends up dead the car won't start either (and your warranty will likely be void) because the HVB drives MG2 to start the ICE............. Jon, How would this void the warranty? Especially if the issue is not caused by the owner and related to the vehicle. I've become a firm believer that anything is possible with all things hybriid....that is given my first experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Report post Posted June 16, 2010 Back to your issue - Don't just turn the lights on during daylight hours. As FFHdriver said, have the dealership turn on the DRL's. Search for this issue in this forum for more info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oman Report post Posted June 16, 2010 The computer will not let the HVB battery drain completely. The only way for it to happen is for a system failure to occur (in which case the warranty would cover both the component that failed and the HVB if it was affected) or you put the car into long term storage without following the storage directions. Not following those directions and letting the HVB drain completely gets recorded in the system and may cause Ford to not cover the HVB if there is a problem. You will know if this ever happens because your car will be d*e*a*d and the only way to get it back will be to have it towed to a Ford dealer and have it brought back from the dead via their service department. Jon Jon, How would this void the warranty? Especially if the issue is not caused by the owner and related to the vehicle. I've become a firm believer that anything is possible with all things hybriid....that is given my first experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
