Question for those that have had the update or.......

[oldschool1962]

................................the problem will be in convincing your dealer that it isn't your imagination.

 

Jon

 

 

Well.....I guess half the battle is done then. After a long talk with the Service Manager of the Dealership..........he's convinced!!!!! I'm not imagining things that is. Actually it wasn't the talk that convinced him it was the fact that he and the service tech experienced exactly what was wrong and then some.

 

I guess the point now is that he has some skin in the game and is not happy with what is transpiring. What I experienced today was true customer service and something you don't get too often these days.

 

I gotta say the Service Manager and now the sale staff (mainly my sales person who is also a Manager there) is greatly in tune to how this is going to progress. Personally I don't envy any of what they have to do from here on.........I thought I was frustrated with things. I can see, their frustration plus with my knowledge of customer service and my integrity ..........my car has raised some serious questions with no reasonable or justifiable answers.....the representatives I'm dealing with are now asking some hard question of the situation and they want some answers.

 

It's been discussed here about the facts surrounding the Toyota system and the Ford system. It's been a great bit of info and has taught me a ton about things. With this new found knowledge I have to ask this here......... just as we discussed it today at the dealership.

 

It seems that even though Ford and Toyota systems are different and operate similarly.......... they do both share one commonality.....TRW I think it was. Correct me if I was wrong. Anyhow....... Isn't it odd that both Ford and Toyota are experiencing the same basic issues with their systems simultaneously and could it......... in fact.......... stem from something done or even not done by them?

 

Tazz, I wanted to mention that I did not intend to quote you but more just kind of raise a topic of conversation. I hope that I didn't misrepresent what you said........ as that was not my intention. By the way.....they ordered my new radio...........the manufacturer sent the wrong one. Can you believe it? :hysterical: It's actually the radio you have so I have no altitude display now too. They are reordering the radio again so......... :waiting:

[lolder]

The FFH and Prius break issues are different. The Prius instantaneous ABS brake release can be reproduced every time on the same road conditions and is a design characteristic (fault?). The FFH regen brake failure is a malfunction caused by a software bug and is very rare. It would be nice to find some Ford publication that discusses the fix.

Edited February 13, 2010 by lolder

[oldschool1962]

The FFH and Prius break issues are different. The Prius instantaneous ABS brake release can be reproduced every time on the same road conditions and is a design characteristic (fault?). The FFH regen brake failure is a malfunction caused by a software bug and is very rare. It would be nice to find some Ford publication that discusses the fix.

 

My comment was based on the same thing being the brakes not the same braking issues. I apologize for not clarifying that.....my mistake.

 

From what I can piece together from my own "problem solving" experience........they don't have a publication yet because they are still throwing things and ideas at it. The real problem is probably that no one really knows so..............they just widen the spec parameters (wide enough to float a Carrier through) and say it's normal ( Normal BS 'cause saying that sounds better than "I don't know") until they have a solution (future TSB for something unrelated that makes them look like geniuses)..... :hysterical:

 

JMHPOFEWLMAOWROF (just my humble personal opinion from experience............ while laughing my arse off while rolling on floor) :hysterical2:

 

I guess after anger, depression, denial, bargaining and acceptance all I have left is a sense of humor about it. Sure beats trying to add grey to something that's not there anymore. :doh:

 

Understand too that there is info I just can't share out here. So...........we'll see what happens now.

 

edit:

 

Personally I think the Prius brakes are acting like any other ABS system I've ever driven. After using the DW's Prius the last two days.......it was only when I was braking on a rough or littered with roads debris surface (pebbles, dirt and rocks) that the ABS initiated. To me perfectly legitimate reason for the braking system to experience a situation similar to wheel slippage. Every car and truck equipped with ABS I've ever owned has done the same thing so I didn't notice it as a problem. Personally I'd rather have a sensitive abs than not or none. (the none happened to me during an issue last week while the regen failed)

Edited February 13, 2010 by oldschool1962

[lolder]

You may be right that they don't really know about the brake issue. The wire harness re-route didn't fix it. The software fix may eliminate it by virtue of not allowing a type of failure to physically be noticeable even though the failure occurs in the system. That is called "fault tolerant" and is common, especially in airplanes. With so many computers controlling things and interacting with each other, fault tolerance is essential because it's unlikely that the software is perfect and there are so many external sources of RF energy to do monkey business. I had a sailboat with a Honda gas generator I ran on deck occasionally. When I did some long range single-sideband digital radio communication on certain frequencies, the generator would quit. RF energy was getting into the generator's automatic low oil level shutdown circuitry and triggering it. I am holding off on the software upgrade. Of course, just last year I upgraded from Windows 98II to XP.

[oldschool1962]

Here's something new.......

 

Today while driving I applied the brake as I normally would and as soon as the car slowed to 5mph the front brakes grabbed I mean they GRABBED!!! :redcard: Pulled me forward out of the seat.....stuff slid off the seat..........what gives? :banghead:

 

I then pulled on a side street and did a test. Paying attention to all that was going on............no matter how light I was on the pedal as soon as the car dipped below 5mph the brakes grabbed. The difference in things now was that this was while the regen icon had appeared and then disappeared as it normally would at that 5mph threshold. Then it stayed lit until I stopped once or twice but still grabbed. I wasn't even close to a hard braking event with pedal pressure.

 

All I can say now is that if this car would have exhibited any of the symptoms, issues and other things out of the norm when I test drove the thng......I would have never purchased this particular vehicle. I would have also driven another one just to see if it was a characteristic.

 

Personally I believe this brake issue is escalating and even though there is this fail safe thing with the hydralics......it also seems to be tied to the computer so what if the computer system is having a major and undetectable fault......What if the computer were to cause the brakes to .....well pedal pressure should dictate the amount of brake and the computer seems to be overriding it so a short stop created by the computer could cause some serious issues even at 5mph but what about 10-20or 50? I can only hope that the Engineers.....well maybe I can get a written guarantee from them that myself, my wife or more so our daughter will not become injured from a something they have dismissed as "operating with-in parameters or normal". if they decide to use that one for the latest issue :rant:

 

The vehicle is about ready to get :censored: parked!

I will be stopping in at the dealer tomorrow to see about things more in person.

Edited February 16, 2010 by oldschool1962