Mileage Hacks and upgrades.

[VonoreTn]

Since you are/were an engineer do you have anything to say that might help anyone improve the FFH?

 

Paul

 

 

I've got nothing. What do you have? :reading:

[aceinc]

I've read that increasing the tire pressure to 40 psi net's 2-3 mpg. Recommended to use Nitrogen, as the expansion rate when hot is less. The ride is a bit harder.

 

As a driving habit, putting the car into neutral at traffic lights allows the eletric motor to stop spinning reducing electrical consumption.

 

While miniscule, I am looking at replacing all interior and convenience lights (things like dome lights, map lights courtesy lights under the O/S R/V mirrors, license plate lights) with LED equivalents.

 

Since I live in a sunny climate, I will be investing in spectrally selective window film. It is my understanding that since it is clear, it can by installed on all windows including the windshield. I will be investigating further before I decide to put it on the windshield.

 

Paul

[akirby]

I've read that increasing the tire pressure to 40 psi net's 2-3 mpg. Recommended to use Nitrogen, as the expansion rate when hot is less. The ride is a bit harder.

 

As a driving habit, putting the car into neutral at traffic lights allows the eletric motor to stop spinning reducing electrical consumption.

 

While miniscule, I am looking at replacing all interior and convenience lights (things like dome lights, map lights courtesy lights under the O/S R/V mirrors, license plate lights) with LED equivalents.

 

Since I live in a sunny climate, I will be investing in spectrally selective window film. It is my understanding that since it is clear, it can by installed on all windows including the windshield. I will be investigating further before I decide to put it on the windshield.

 

Paul

 

Do a search for hypermiling. There are several folks here who would be more than happy to discuss these types of things with you in gory detail. The rest of us just don't care about going to such extremes.

[HarleyJoel]

You would have to check with your state laws but in New Jersey any window film on any of the windows on side or in front of the driver is illegal. The film itself is illegal supposedly due to it's blurring properties and not due to the darkness of the tint.

[aceinc]

Hypermiling is OK, but it requires constant vigilance, and doing things I don't care to do including starting too slowly, coasting to traffic lights etc. Putting the car in neutral at a traffic light, I might be able to do.

 

Florida Law allows up to 72% tinting on Driver's window, and 85% on other windows.

 

I was going to say a smart alec crack about New Jersey, and the air melting the tinting or something, but I remembered how one of the guys I work with from New Jersey might react, and decided against it (it would probably start something like "you talkin to me....").

 

Paul

[lolder]

I've read that increasing the tire pressure to 40 psi net's 2-3 mpg. Recommended to use Nitrogen, as the expansion rate when hot is less. The ride is a bit harder.

 

As a driving habit, putting the car into neutral at traffic lights allows the eletric motor to stop spinning reducing electrical consumption.

 

While miniscule, I am looking at replacing all interior and convenience lights (things like dome lights, map lights courtesy lights under the O/S R/V mirrors, license plate lights) with LED equivalents.

 

Since I live in a sunny climate, I will be investing in spectrally selective window film. It is my understanding that since it is clear, it can by installed on all windows including the windshield. I will be investigating further before I decide to put it on the windshield.

 

Paul

 

There are two electric motor generators, MG1 and MG2. MG2 (Motor) is the big one and is directly linked to the front wheels and is referred to as the traction motor and regenerative braking generator. It only turns when the wheels are turning. See this site about the Prius system which is similar: http://homepage.mac.com/inachan/prius/planet_e.html. MG1 (Generator) is not turning when you are stopped unless the ICE (Engine) is running in which case it is usually operating as a generator controlled by the computer. If the engine is running at a traffic light, the computer wants it to run for charging or several other reasons. It doesn't often do this. NOTHING is wasted in the normal operation of this car.

The big energy loads are heating and AC. Anything that reduces that has big gains. Parking under shade in summer, tinted windows, parking in the sun in winter, heated garages all help.

Replacing the lights will have little effect.

 

Lee

[aceinc]

I also like the look of the LEDs a bit more as well.

 

I personally would like to have a bit more control over how the charge level was handled. Daily I drive about two miles on surface streets, get on an expressway drive 10 miles (70-75 mph), get off drive about 2 miles on surface streets and park. There are a couple of stop signs and traffic lights on one side, and 3 traffic lights on the other. On both sides there are frequent speed traps so I do the limit which is 30 mph. There is generally little stop and go. It would be great if the batteries were substantially (fully) charged when I got off the expressway, so that most of the slow driving was done in EV mode. However the battery indicator is generally just above half. My trip computer is saying I get between 36 and 42 mpg.

 

Paul

[aceinc]

Is there a way to get a more granular view of how much energy is being generated by braking?

 

Also the diagram that shows the engine, motor and batttery doesn't seem to change other than the engine going grey. Is it supposed to show how the energy is being distributed? The little green blocks all seem to move at a constant speed in the same direction irrespective of what the car is doing.

 

Something that might be nice is some way of communicating how much power is being generated by braking, and how much is being lost to the brakes..

 

Paul

[lolder]

The HV battery charge is controlled at about "half" for a reason. We don't know exactly what percent charge that is but that is all part of the computer controlled charge/discharge scheme that has brought the Ni-MH batteries to their present stage of evolution. Also if you use moderate braking from expressway speeds, the HV charge nears "H". If you coast down a long steep hill it will approach "H". They want the car to be able to absorb as much regenerative braking as possible. The HV battery is actually very small in comparison to electric only vehicles. In fact some hypermilers recommend trying to keep the ICE on as the charge/discharge cycle introduces loses and since all the energy comes from gasoline anyway, use it to mechanically drive the car. This is true but there is another factor at slow speeds. The computer knows when the ICE must run and how much brake horsepower is needed. It runs the engine at the optimum conditions for this but at slow speeds, only a few horsepower are needed. Adding a charging load improves the ICE efficiency. That's why the average MPG gets quite high at 30-40 mph when the ICE cycles on and off every 1/2 to 2 miles. "They" want these batteries to last many thousands of cycles.

The green charging/discharging arrows vary slightly in intensity with current. The trick in braking efficiency is to do most of your braking at higher speeds and almost let it coast to a stop below 5 mph when little regenerative braking is available. According to reviews, this car is superior in it's smooth braking to all other hybrids.

 

Lee

[aceinc]

Regarding the display, pardon some of my incoherent whining. I actually paid attention, whilst driving home and the display does show more than I originally thought.

 

On the way home, the battery indicator was about half as I decelerated. Probably went from 70 to 50 coasting, and then braked evenly from about 50 to 0 over a quarter mile. I don't think the battery guage made it to 75%.

 

While watching the HEV display on cruise control at 75 mph, I noticed the display showed the electric motor was supplying power to the wheels. I would have thought power would be strictly ICE at that speed. Any thoughts?

 

If I'm not mistaken the battery is a 1.4 kwh Sanyo. The Tesla Roadster has a 53 Kwh battery.

 

Paul

[lolder]

Both MG1 and MG2 can be motors or generators at a wide range of speeds. They do this to regulate charge, discharge, speed, transmission ratio and therefore engine speed. Go to "Enlighten" display mode that is the only one that shows ICE rpm (the others show "power"). If you have some hills, watch how much the RPM varies on speed control when you go up and down. The electric motor also comes in a little. If you have only gentle barely noticeable ups and downs, The RPM stays pretty constant and the electric motor adds a little power or takes a little as a generator. This thing has so many servo loops and algorithms its amazing it's stable and works at all. That's why we caution you about changing things. Now I understand it was software guys like you Paul that developed these things. But like I said before, this is a big, fast computer controlled machine. I was an E.E. 45 years ago when all we had were slide rules, calculators and those servo feedback plots whose name I even forget. Things are very different today but nothing is infallible.

 

Lee

[VonoreTn]

Explain to me what the UAW has to do with Fords ability to innovate. I doubt any UAW members work on future products, at least in their design faze. Also with the UAW getting smaller and smaller I also find it hard to believe they would do anything to cut their own throats.

 

This is off topic so I will keep it short. The UAW over the last 50 years has raised the price of Detroit vehicle assembly labor above the labor costs of equivalent local manufacturing labor costs, and above the labor costs of Japan and South Korea. Plus the costs of 95% of all foreign plants in the USA, which are non-unon plants. This means we might have to charge $200 more for our cars or leave out $200 of feature content versus our competition. That has an impact on future model car innovations.

 

It has been claimed that the Ford Chairman, Muhally, insisted that Ford make at least $100 per vehicle on the Fusion Hybrid, versus lose money on it like the Toyota Prius has been reported to be doing.

 

http://kenhoma.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/ho...kes-on-a-prius/

 

Note the FFH is being built in Mexico by non-UAW workers, who make about $8-$10/ hour.

[VonoreTn]

I've read that increasing the tire pressure to 40 psi net's 2-3 mpg. Recommended to use Nitrogen, as the expansion rate when hot is less. The ride is a bit harder.

 

As a driving habit, putting the car into neutral at traffic lights allows the eletric motor to stop spinning reducing electrical consumption.

 

While miniscule, I am looking at replacing all interior and convenience lights (things like dome lights, map lights courtesy lights under the O/S R/V mirrors, license plate lights) with LED equivalents.

 

Since I live in a sunny climate, I will be investing in spectrally selective window film. It is my understanding that since it is clear, it can by installed on all windows including the windshield. I will be investigating further before I decide to put it on the windshield.

 

Paul

The use of nitrogen is neglegible versus the practice of monitoring your cold air pressure. The difference in expansion rate would give air an mpg advantage, since it expands slightly more with temperature. 40 psi versus the recommended 33 psi should improve your mpg but you start to lose wet braking traction at ~38 psi, due to a reduced contact patch size.

 

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp...19&id=27281

 

Interior Light replacement would have a miniscule impact on current draw, compared to say manually setting your climate control fan to the lowest level comfortable, since that fan pulls much more current than the interior bulbs. Window film is good, reduces the A/C load. A white car versus a dark car also significantly reduces the A/C load.

[aceinc]

Regarding unions, is there no blame for management? Management gets greedy, and builds cars that have high profit margins, the unions see management making obscene benefit packages, their greed kicks in and demands more benefits, management decides that a strike will cost them too much, caves in and gives the unions part of their profits. Rather than make less profit, management cuts cost or raises prices, starting the cycle all over again. In the meantime competitors see US car companies charging too much and cutting too many corners on products and clean their clocks. I think their is enough blame to go around.

 

I wanted a white car, but being impatient and cheap, the only car I could get locally at invoice was an "Ice Blue Metallic" which is pretty light colored. Of course my son says I couldn't have gotten a more effiminate car unless they painted it pink. Good news, I don't have to worry about him wanting to borrow it.

 

I wonder how much electricty could be generated by building solar panels into the moon roof? Enough to keep the car cool when parked?

 

Paul

[DaveM]

This is off topic so I will keep it short. The UAW over the last 50 years has raised the price of Detroit vehicle assembly labor above the labor costs of equivalent local manufacturing labor costs, and above the labor costs of Japan and South Korea. Plus the costs of 95% of all foreign plants in the USA, which are non-unon plants. This means we might have to charge $200 more for our cars or leave out $200 of feature content versus our competition. That has an impact on future model car innovations.

 

It has been claimed that the Ford Chairman, Muhally, insisted that Ford make at least $100 per vehicle on the Fusion Hybrid, versus lose money on it like the Toyota Prius has been reported to be doing.

 

http://kenhoma.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/ho...kes-on-a-prius/

 

Note the FFH is being built in Mexico by non-UAW workers, who make about $8-$10/ hour.

I don't buy that. Of course that is what I would expect from a Salary Ford Worker. Point, The high end Caddys and Lincolns plus some trucks and most SUV's have all the toys there are and cost 10's of thousands less than their Foreign counterparts. It is said the they make 10K on each of these vehicles. Another point, The UAW has given up many thousands in pay and benefits at GM and to a lesser at Ford but no where has the price of a new car reflected any of this and NEVER WILL. All that will happen is that the big shots will get bigger and bigger bonuses for doing nothing, point the ex Chariman of GM who got millions in bonuses each year even though GM was going down the tubes. The UAW has many, many times asked to see the paperwork on how the companies are doing but are always refused so all they can do is look at the huge bonuses paid the top salary people and assume that they are making big bucks so ask for raises etc. to get a piece of the pie. Since this is off topic but you started it I felt I should respond as the UAW is always getting bad press, even when it isn't warranted. You had your say and I had mine so lets drop it before it gets heated and move on with what we are all here for.

[VonoreTn]

You had your say and I had mine so lets drop it before it gets heated and move on with what we are all here for.

 

Why do you remind me of the drive-by media? You take your cheap shot at salary workers, then want to end the debate. Ok, I don't have time to educate you on capitalism.

[aceinc]

I started the thread, which has gone far afield.

 

US car manufacturers and their unions are fighting over a smaller and smaller pie. If they don't figure it out soon when we walk into a dealership we will be greeted with "ni hao."

 

I think I'll start another thread called "Vehicle based mileage improvements"

 

Paul

[VonoreTn]

I wanted a white car, but being impatient and cheap, the only car I could get locally at invoice was an "Ice Blue Metallic" which is pretty light colored. Of course my son says I couldn't have gotten a more effiminate car unless they painted it pink. Good news, I don't have to worry about him wanting to borrow it.

 

I wonder how much electricty could be generated by building solar panels into the moon roof? Enough to keep the car cool when parked?

 

Paul

 

I have seen that "Ice Blue Metallic", and I like it. I never thought of it as effiminate, just a fresh cool color found in nature. I wanted white also, but my Wife wanted the sterling gray metallic, so we compromised and got the sterling gray metallic. ;_)

We ordered ours from the factory, and had to wait about a month for it.

 

My conclusion regarding solar panels is that unless you have a house roof full of them, the energy density on a car surface is not high enough to justify the expense. They cost roughly $5 purchase price per watt, and generate only 10-12 watts per square foot of surface areas. They work only when the sun is shinning, which is hard to justify when you have a state of the art FFH generator in the same vehicle.

 

Prius brags about their energy roof system, which is nothing but a battery powered blower and vent to knock off the high end of a sun soak in a parking lot. I shouldn't disregard the merit of that, since it might knock down a peak interior air temperature from 140F to 110F, and save the life of any pet foolishly left in a vehicle in the summer. But so would leaving your windows cracked open 1/2 inch parked in the sun.

[DaveM]

I have seen that "Ice Blue Metallic", and I like it. I never thought of it as effiminate, just a fresh cool color found in nature. I wanted white also, but my Wife wanted the sterling gray metallic, so we compromised and got the sterling gray metallic. ;_)

We ordered ours from the factory, and had to wait about a month for it.

 

My conclusion regarding solar panels is that unless you have a house roof full of them, the energy density on a car surface is not high enough to justify the expense. They cost roughly $5 purchase price per watt, and generate only 10-12 watts per square foot of surface areas. They work only when the sun is shinning, which is hard to justify when you have a state of the art FFH generator in the same vehicle.

 

Prius brags about their energy roof system, which is nothing but a battery powered blower and vent to knock off the high end of a sun soak in a parking lot. I shouldn't disregard the merit of that, since it might knock down a peak interior air temperature from 140F to 110F, and save the life of any pet foolishly left in a vehicle in the summer. But so would leaving your windows cracked open 1/2 inch parked in the sun.

And save yourself about 2K+ for a worthless system.

[rfruth]

On my NAV I can go to Menu and System Settings, gives all revision codes. If you don't have a NAV I'm not sure how you'd do it.

 

Not sure how to do this on my non NAV FFH yet, what revision of SYNC did you get from the factory & what was your build date ?