Legal hypermiling

[VonoreTn]

Ok, here is something I tried last night based on logic I had done in my head, the logic being that the more miles you spend with the ICE off, the better your mileage. Since the ICE will go off under light load up to 47 mph, I figured that if I drove from my home to Maryville, Tn. on highway 411, where the speed limit varies from 50-55, at just under 47 mph, I could get optimum mpg. The nice thing about this road is that there are few stop lights, light traffic, small rolling hillls and 4 lanes, so I never blocked traffic.

 

And it worked. Going to and from Maryville, about 60 miles at 45 mph on speed control, I averaged 51.2 mpg, based on the trip FE readout. The ICE was going off going down the minor hills. I know that you can get slightly better mpg if you take the speed control off, but the problem with that is that if you accidently exceed 47 going down a hill the ICE kicks in, plus without speed control it is easy to drop off too much speed going up hills. That takes way too much focus. It was cool enough that I did not need AC, or much blower. It was night, so my lights were on.

 

50 mpg puts me in the same range as large engine motorcycles. When someone figures out how to get the ICE threshold speed to 65 mph, without a 1000 lbs of more batteries, that might be an mpg break-through.

[Grey]

Mirrors my experience- drove 100 miles from Roswell to Lake Wedowee in Alabama on Hwy. 5. Speed control set at 45 and got 54.1 MPG. Speed limit for most of the way is 45 so I didn't hold up too many people. Took the Xpressway back and went up to 75 MPH getting 39 MPG. :happy feet: :happy feet:

[Oman]

Fun Fact:

 

It doesn't take a bigger battery, it takes a faster motor (MG1 specifically). MG1 is a motor/generator that spins and makes the difference between the crank speed of the ICE and the output shaft speed (there are other static gears in between). The range is about -6400RPM to +6400RPM. At -6400RPM the input (ICE crankshaft) shaft is still and the output shaft translates to about 47MPH in road speed. The car has no choice but to start spinning the ICE above that speed or MG1 would have to spin faster and it would blow apart.

 

There appears to be some amount of fudge in the cars MPG calculations. It seems to overemphasize EV mode mileage. If you were to keep an absolute measure of MPG then you would track all the fuel consumed and all the miles traveled. The problem is that it seems to use some factor of instant mileage when in EV mode. It is almost as if it is saying "I'll set EV mode at 100MPG" and keeps averaging the mileage rather that truly tracking consumption vs. distance. I have been tracking every drop of fuel put in the car and every measurement the car makes. When I intentionally force a ton of EV time the reported mileage starts to drifter father off from the actual (measured mileage). In normal driving with normal EV mode use my actual mileage runs about 1.5MPG less than the car reports. When I force a ton of EV it is more like 4-5MPG less.

 

That being given if you can keep your downhill speed < 47MPH then you should see an increase in mileage because the ICE simply isn't turning at all and the motors are not consuming energy. I think I read that they can not completely turn off the injectors even when the ICE is essentially just being dragged along for the ride because of emissions or lubrication or something like that. Draining the battery on forced long EV runs however will not have the same benefit as the power may be better used to help the ICE run in the most efficient RPM range when the next acceleration phase comes along.

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

Ok, here is something I tried last night based on logic I had done in my head, the logic being that the more miles you spend with the ICE off, the better your mileage. Since the ICE will go off under light load up to 47 mph, I figured that if I drove from my home to Maryville, Tn. on highway 411, where the speed limit varies from 50-55, at just under 47 mph, I could get optimum mpg. The nice thing about this road is that there are few stop lights, light traffic, small rolling hillls and 4 lanes, so I never blocked traffic.

 

And it worked. Going to and from Maryville, about 60 miles at 45 mph on speed control, I averaged 51.2 mpg, based on the trip FE readout. The ICE was going off going down the minor hills. I know that you can get slightly better mpg if you take the speed control off, but the problem with that is that if you accidently exceed 47 going down a hill the ICE kicks in, plus without speed control it is easy to drop off too much speed going up hills. That takes way too much focus. It was cool enough that I did not need AC, or much blower. It was night, so my lights were on.

 

50 mpg puts me in the same range as large engine motorcycles. When someone figures out how to get the ICE threshold speed to 65 mph, without a 1000 lbs of more batteries, that might be an mpg break-through.

[wnyvet]

I figured that if I drove from my home to Maryville, Tn. on highway 411, where the speed limit varies from 50-55, at just under 47 mph, I could get optimum mpg. The nice thing about this road is that there are few stop lights, light traffic, small rolling hillls and 4 lanes, so I never blocked traffic.And it worked. Going to and from Maryville, about 60 miles at 45 mph on speed control, I averaged 51.2 mpg, based on the trip FE readout.

 

Hi VonoreTN,

 

How's things, neighbor? I'm in nearby Powell! Going to the Smoky Mtns next Sunday, to see the colors.

 

I often go to Morristown TN, via AJ Hwy. If I'm careful, then I can amass 51 mpg, on the 94-mile roundtrip. It does require patience, though, but it's 4-lane and there's plenty of room for speedier drivers to safely go around. It's a nice ride.

 

Happy motoring!!

[VonoreTn]

Hi VonoreTN,

 

How's things, neighbor? I'm in nearby Powell! Going to the Smoky Mtns next Sunday, to see the colors.

 

I often go to Morristown TN, via AJ Hwy. If I'm careful, then I can amass 51 mpg, on the 94-mile roundtrip. It does require patience, though, but it's 4-lane and there's plenty of room for speedier drivers to safely go around. It's a nice ride.

 

Happy motoring!!

 

I hope you avoided the landslide on I-40, that happened this morning. A friend and I took my FFH to the Maggie Valley and Bryson City last Thursday. The FFH averaged a hair over 40 mpg for the whole trip, including going up a steep mountain to get a good view of the Maggie Valley from a couple thousand feet up. If you can get 51 mpg, you're doing something right.....

 

I don't think I've been to Powell, are you talking about the town near I-75 and West Emery Road? If so, I'm south of you at Rarity Bay. What's the AJ highway?

[VonoreTn]

Fun Fact:

 

 

 

...........I think I read that they can not completely turn off the injectors even when the ICE is essentially just being dragged along for the ride because of emissions or lubrication or something like that.............

Jon

 

That's scary that the injectors would be on with the ICE off. The gas is either going to leak past the rings and get into the oil, or build up in the combustion chamber and send a lot of rich mixture to the catalytic converter when the ICE comes on again. I can't see that either scenery would be desirable. Are you sure about that?

[wnyvet]

I hope you avoided the landslide on I-40, that happened this morning. A friend and I took my FFH to the Maggie Valley and Bryson City last Thursday. The FFH averaged a hair over 40 mpg for the whole trip, including going up a steep mountain to get a good view of the Maggie Valley from a couple thousand feet up. If you can get 51 mpg, you're doing something right.....

 

I don't think I've been to Powell, are you talking about the town near I-75 and West Emery Road? If so, I'm south of you at Rarity Bay. What's the AJ highway?

 

What a landslide! How about a few tons of massive rock :devil2: raining down upon a new FFH? No, I wasn't traveling that far, so just missed it. Got off at Exit 440, headed to Cosby. The weather was spectacular, as was the hike.

 

Yes, Powell is the sleepy little town :boring: just north of Knoxville. Close enough for convenience, while just far enough to escape it all. It's a quick 8-mile ride to work, and in the mornings, I get 45 - 51mpg's. On the return trip after work, it slips to 35 - 45mpg's, depending upon how the day transpired :hysterical:

 

The AJ HWY (Andrew Johnson) is the 11E road that travels to Morristown, via New Market and Jefferson City. It's not an interstate, but a nice secondary road, slightly north and parallel to I-40/I-81.

[Oman]

What that means is that they have to have the system firing with some minimal amount of fuel. They can't have it spin and not fire at all. Maybe emissions related.

 

Jon

 

That's scary that the injectors would be on with the ICE off. The gas is either going to leak past the rings and get into the oil, or build up in the combustion chamber and send a lot of rich mixture to the catalytic converter when the ICE comes on again. I can't see that either scenery would be desirable. Are you sure about that?

[VonoreTn]

What that means is that they have to have the system firing with some minimal amount of fuel. They can't have it spin and not fire at all. Maybe emissions related.

 

Jon

 

I see what you are saying. I had assumed that the ICE was completely stopped, like not rotating when the electric motor only was engaged, by virtue of a one-way-clutch behind the flywheel. Do you know of a website that gets into that level of detail on the FFH operation?

[VonoreTn]

What a landslide! How about a few tons of massive rock :devil2: raining down upon a new FFH? No, I wasn't traveling that far, so just missed it. Got off at Exit 440, headed to Cosby. The weather was spectacular, as was the hike.

 

Yes, Powell is the sleepy little town :boring: just north of Knoxville. Close enough for convenience, while just far enough to escape it all. It's a quick 8-mile ride to work, and in the mornings, I get 45 - 51mpg's. On the return trip after work, it slips to 35 - 45mpg's, depending upon how the day transpired :hysterical:

 

The AJ HWY (Andrew Johnson) is the 11E road that travels to Morristown, via New Market and Jefferson City. It's not an interstate, but a nice secondary road, slightly north and parallel to I-40/I-81.

 

I guess from a geological time perspective, we just missed the landslide when we went through that zone 4 days before the Monday of the slide. :victory: (that icon might not fit, but it's fun to use them !). So you work in Knoxville and it's only 8 minutes away? What a great setup! I bet you know where Harbor Freight is on Broadway, just north of 640. I am always looking for an excuse to drive the 50 miles over there to buy inexpensive tools....

 

We live about 15 miles from 11W, which runs through Loudon, and Lenoir City.

 

We just put some 100% gas (no ethanol) in our Fusion to see if that improves the mileage.....I think that might be considered a legal hypermiling trick.. :backtotopic:

[wnyvet]

I guess from a geological time perspective, we just missed the landslide when we went through that zone 4 days before the Monday of the slide. :victory: (that icon might not fit, but it's fun to use them !). So you work in Knoxville and it's only 8 minutes away? What a great setup! I bet you know where Harbor Freight is on Broadway, just north of 640. I am always looking for an excuse to drive the 50 miles over there to buy inexpensive tools....

 

We live about 15 miles from 11W, which runs through Loudon, and Lenoir City.

 

We just put some 100% gas (no ethanol) in our Fusion to see if that improves the mileage.....I think that might be considered a legal hypermiling trick.. :backtotopic:

 

No, I live 8 miles away (not minutes) from where I work in Fountain City, but it's such a nice ride to get there. I haven't personally experimented with 100% gas, not even sure where there is any in the area, but do me a favor, and post your results. I mean, is there a noticeable improvement?

 

Alvin Frye's Exxon, on Broadway, had it until a few months ago, they had a big sign out front that read

100% gas! :)

 

Haven't been to Harbor Freight to buy anything, but yes, I know where it is. I drive by there at least once everyday. It's not on my own route, but I might have delivered mail there, once or twice.

[Oman]

Actually I'm pretty sure that running a vehicle on 100% gasoline on a federally funded road is in fact illegal. Pretty much all public roads receive some amount of federal subsidy. They sell 100% gasoline for boats and off-road or farm implements. But I am curious too.

 

Jon

 

 

I guess from a geological time perspective, we just missed the landslide when we went through that zone 4 days before the Monday of the slide. :victory: (that icon might not fit, but it's fun to use them !). So you work in Knoxville and it's only 8 minutes away? What a great setup! I bet you know where Harbor Freight is on Broadway, just north of 640. I am always looking for an excuse to drive the 50 miles over there to buy inexpensive tools....

 

We live about 15 miles from 11W, which runs through Loudon, and Lenoir City.

 

We just put some 100% gas (no ethanol) in our Fusion to see if that improves the mileage.....I think that might be considered a legal hypermiling trick.. :backtotopic:

[akirby]

Actually I'm pretty sure that running a vehicle on 100% gasoline on a federally funded road is in fact illegal. Pretty much all public roads receive some amount of federal subsidy. They sell 100% gasoline for boats and off-road or farm implements. But I am curious too.

 

Jon

 

There are no federal laws or mandates that require E10. Those would be state or local laws if they exist.

[VonoreTn]

There are no federal laws or mandates that require E10. Those would be state or local laws if they exist.

 

I appreciate that my 100% gasoline source can keep selling it, he is barely making any money on it selling it at the same price as E10, he is just doing it on principle. He is in the middle of downtown Loudon, Tn, by the court house, off I-75 between exit 72 and exit 76, a mile to the east, on Hwy 11 which parallels I-75. If you take either exit you can get back on I-75 at the other without back-tracking. I think the name of the station is Loudon Market, and it says "pure gas" on its marquee.

 

Perhaps the poster 2 up is thinking of 100 Octane gas, which is illegal to sell for use on public roads. I know because I can pickup 40 HP on my Mustang with a Kenne Bell supercharger if I use 100 octane gas and throw the KB engine module switch to "Shoot-out" mode. But I can only use it at the dragstrip. 100 Octane gasoline should have no positive impact on a FFH.

[Oman]

The 100 octane gas is illegal to use on the road because it contains lead. My '69 428CJ loves it when properly jetted and timed. Unfortunately I just use 1 gallon per tank to raise the octane enough to keep the pistons from suffering an early death.

 

Several local stations sell 100% gasoline here. There are signs on the pumps saying that federal and state regulations forbid the use of the gas for road vehicles. It is sold mainly to farmers and boaters. In this case it is regulations requiring that all road vehicle fuel contain some percentage of ethanol.

 

Jon

 

 

I appreciate that my 100% gasoline source can keep selling it, he is barely making any money on it selling it at the same price as E10, he is just doing it on principle. He is in the middle of downtown Loudon, Tn, by the court house, off I-75 between exit 72 and exit 76, a mile to the east, on Hwy 11 which parallels I-75. If you take either exit you can get back on I-75 at the other without back-tracking. I think the name of the station is Loudon Market, and it says "pure gas" on its marquee.

 

Perhaps the poster 2 up is thinking of 100 Octane gas, which is illegal to sell for use on public roads. I know because I can pickup 40 HP on my Mustang with a Kenne Bell supercharger if I use 100 octane gas and throw the KB engine module switch to "Shoot-out" mode. But I can only use it at the dragstrip. 100 Octane gasoline should have no positive impact on a FFH.

[akirby]

Several local stations sell 100% gasoline here. There are signs on the pumps saying that federal and state regulations forbid the use of the gas for road vehicles. It is sold mainly to farmers and boaters. In this case it is regulations requiring that all road vehicle fuel contain some percentage of ethanol.

 

Jon

 

Jon - those are state or local regulations. The Feds (EPA) do NOT prohibit 100% gasoline.

[Oman]

Got that from the previous post. I'm just saying that the PUMPS have signs that say that. The EPA has refining requirements that essentially force Ethanol by quota.

 

Jon

 

 

Jon - those are state or local regulations. The Feds (EPA) do NOT prohibit 100% gasoline.

[VonoreTn]

The 100 octane gas is illegal to use on the road because it contains lead. My '69 428CJ loves it when properly jetted and timed. Unfortunately I just use 1 gallon per tank to raise the octane enough to keep the pistons from suffering an early death.

 

Several local stations sell 100% gasoline here. There are signs on the pumps saying that federal and state regulations forbid the use of the gas for road vehicles. It is sold mainly to farmers and boaters. In this case it is regulations requiring that all road vehicle fuel contain some percentage of ethanol.

 

Jon

 

You have a 69 428 CJ? I loved those engines/cars. That engine was SO much better than the first 428's that came out in 68 in the Mustang in the GT-500. As I recall the CJ was conservatively rated at 335 hp, but was probably closer to 410. What model car is it in?

[Oman]

R-Code mustang fastback. Was repainted to Calypso Coral. It was ordered with a C6 and is still equipped that way. The only changes I have made from stock are: dished pistons so I can run some form of modern gas, optical/electronic points hiding under the cap, an electric choke heater, and a cone locker to keep the rear wheels occasionally on the ground. Only a few tanks of 10% Ethanol when I had no choice and the carb needs work again.

 

 

Jon

 

 

You have a 69 428 CJ? I loved those engines/cars. That engine was SO much better than the first 428's that came out in 68 in the Mustang in the GT-500. As I recall the CJ was conservatively rated at 335 hp, but was probably closer to 410. What model car is it in?

[VonoreTn]

R-Code mustang fastback. Was repainted to Calypso Coral. It was ordered with a C6 and is still equipped that way. The only changes I have made from stock are: dished pistons so I can run some form of modern gas, optical/electronic points hiding under the cap, an electric choke heater, and a cone locker to keep the rear wheels occasionally on the ground. Only a few tanks of 10% Ethanol when I had no choice and the carb needs work again.

 

 

Jon

 

If you have a picture of it on a website or forum gallery I'd enjoy seeing it...