pre sales question

[rfruth]

considering Fusion hybrid, what should I look for in a dealership, selection (don't I want *new* one just built rather than something thats been sitting around not been used for test drives, lunch runs etc.) factory trained service person ?

[robm15]

considering Fusion hybrid, what should I look for in a dealership, selection (don't I want *new* one just built rather than something thats been sitting around not been used for test drives, lunch runs etc.) factory trained service person ?

 

I'd start with talking to friends or friends of friends who just bought cars in the last six months. The opinion of people who have experience with a dealership goes a long ways.

 

Ordering or buying off the lot is really a personal choice, and you will have to decide how long you want to wait. I ordered my FFH on 3/8/09, and it was delivered 5/21/2009. If you can wait that long, you can get exactly what you want with no compromises. But if that is to long, then getting a car off the lot, or if nothing comes close to what you want, the dealer can also get a car from another dealership for you. But, we are talking about the FFH, these cars are not sitting on dealer lots very long. But you may get lucky, no hurt in visiting and finding out what they can do.

 

One last bit of advice: Don't ignore your gut. If your at a dealership and something doesn't seem right to you, don't buy a car there. There are always other dealerships out there, and if you take your time and visit a couple you can pick the one you feel most comfortable at. I've had salesman and their sales manager lie to my face before, I didn't 100% know it at the time, but I felt like something as not right. So I went to another dealership, and found out the truth. You can guess where I bought my car.

[rfruth]

thanks 15 ! dealer just quoted me (in e-mail) invoice (not MSRP) + $ 500.00 - what else can they tack on to get the price up other than destination & TTL (dealer prep, mop-and-glow ((paint sealant)) ?

[svjim]

thanks 15 ! dealer just quoted me (in e-mail) invoice (not MSRP) + $ 500.00 - what else can they tack on to get the price up other than destination & TTL (dealer prep, mop-and-glow ((paint sealant)) ?

 

If you are a Costco member, they have an auto plan that usually results in a good price and no haggling. I got my FFH here in California at Invoice + $500. For what it is worth the invoice price includes both the shipping and an advertising fee (I forget the name) Basically Costco sets up a relationship with the dealer and you get fleet prices which will vary from dealership to dealership.

[robm15]

thanks 15 ! dealer just quoted me (in e-mail) invoice (not MSRP) + $ 500.00 - what else can they tack on to get the price up other than destination & TTL (dealer prep, mop-and-glow ((paint sealant)) ?

 

Well, I see your from Texas, so take this for what it is worth, and know I am from Washington state. Things might be different.

 

When I picked up my car last Thursday (5/21), here is what happened.

 

We negotiated saleing price, which is based on:

1) car cost, including delivery charge ($725). If you are getting $500 above invoice, that sounds good. How much below MSRP is that out of curiosity?

2) Taxes

3) Title and plates

4) Document Fee's (I think this was $50)

5) Trade in value for my old car

6) Period of my loan

7) Interest rate I was eligible for based on a number factors, but it is mostly based on my credit score

 

I might have forgotten something, I feel like i did forget something, but i don't know what...

 

After all that is agreed on your sign a few little papers that just say you agree to the negotiated deal.

 

Then before you take possession of the car you go see the finance guy. He will go over your deal with you, and then he will try to sell you these things at a minimum:

 

1) Extended Service Plan. For the premium service plan, with a $100 deductible, it was going to cost be an extra $1,700 approximately.

2) Premium Maintenance Service package which includes free oil changes, brake work, 30,000 mile/60,000 mile service, etc... This would have cost me an extra $1,900.

3) GAP Insurance. This is the one I always get if I am financing over 50% of the cars value. this protects you if your car is totaled or stolen and not recovered. What happens is the insurance company will cover you for the blue book value of the car. If you owe more, than that is your responsibility. I had a co-worker who totaled her car and was upside down by $5,000... That $5,000 was her problem. The GAP insurance was quoted at $599

4) Car protection package, up here they call it the Northwest Protection package. This includes a clear coat to protect the paint from the environment, rust protection, and scotch guard for the seats. i didn't ask for the price, I didn't want it.

5) Lo-Jack. They push this one so hard that it must be a big profit maker for them. If you don't know, Lo-Jack is a tracking device they put on your car and register it with the police. If your car is stolen you call the police and they can track it down. I didn't ask the price.

 

If you purchase any of these, you have a choice to add it on to the selling price of your car, or pay cash for it. It is your choice. If you think you want any of these, or don't, make sure you know before you go in. Because the finance guy will use pressure and fear to try and get you to get these add-ons. I don't think they are bad, just how much do you want to pay and is it worth it to you?

 

After you sign papers with the finance guy, you walk out, get your hand shook a million times, and get your keys (make sure you get both sets, you are entitled to them, even if you are going to be the only driver) and then you will drive away with a huge smile! :)

 

Enjoy!

 

Hope that helps.

[rfruth]

It helps lots, have any pics ?

[rtw819]

If you are a Costco member, they have an auto plan that usually results in a good price and no haggling.

...

Basically Costco sets up a relationship with the dealer and you get fleet prices which will vary from dealership to dealership.

 

Here in the upper mid-west, the Costco membership seemed to offer minimal benefits, but I think it was all on the dealership in this case. The Costco-approved dealer had a 502A hybrid with the tri-coat white paint job, not quite what I was looking for, but... The "Internet Price" ("cheaper?!") the dealership had on the vehicle was a full $2,000 _over_ MSRP -- yes, you read right. The extra $2k was for a "Market Adjustment" which, strangely enough _none_ of the other dealers in the area were charging. The dealership provided information that the Costco benefit was that they deducted the $2k Market Adjustment, so the membership price was effectively FULL MSRP -- not a great deal. Needless to say, I found a much better deal at a different dealership. Costco didn't have much to say when I left a comment, but I didn't pursue it very far either. Your mileage may vary depending on the dealership as far as Costco's pricing plan is concerned, at least from what I've seen.

 

FYI - "FDAF" is the marketing/advertising charge - IIRC it's the Ford Dealer Advertising Fund, supposedly to recover local advertising costs from what I remember having read.

[svjim]

Costco didn't have much to say when I left a comment, but I didn't pursue it very far either. Your mileage may vary depending on the dealership as far as Costco's pricing plan is concerned, at least from what I've seen.

 

Your correct in your comment that mileage may vary based upon the dealer. I know each dealer comes to an agreement on specific cars with Costco and most of them will give you the same or similar break on cars that are not included in the deal. I am glad to hear that you left a comment with Costco as at least on the surface they seem to be interested in the results. BTW, was the dealer price for one in stock or to order one. I do know that even the guys that will give you $500 over invoice usually will not do that for a car already in stock. They are all to rare and in most cases they can get MSRP or better, but if you order it through them, then it is easy money.

[rtw819]

BTW, was the dealer price for one in stock or to order one. I do know that even the guys that will give you $500 over invoice usually will not do that for a car already in stock. They are all to rare and in most cases they can get MSRP or better, but if you order it through them, then it is easy money.

 

Yeah, it was one of their in-stock cars (the only FFH on the lot), so I guess I'm not surprised they were trying to get top dollar out of it. However, with allocation still being open until 6/30 (?) I'm surprised they weren't more interested in moving it. The dealers are definitely more willing to "deal" if you order one.

[Quincy]

1) Extended Service Plan. For the premium service plan, with a $100 deductible, it was going to cost be an extra $1,700 approximately.

2) Premium Maintenance Service package which includes free oil changes, brake work, 30,000 mile/60,000 mile service, etc... This would have cost me an extra $1,900.

3) GAP Insurance. This is the one I always get if I am financing over 50% of the cars value. this protects you if your car is totaled or stolen and not recovered. What happens is the insurance company will cover you for the blue book value of the car. If you owe more, than that is your responsibility. I had a co-worker who totaled her car and was upside down by $5,000... That $5,000 was her problem. The GAP insurance was quoted at $599

4) Car protection package, up here they call it the Northwest Protection package. This includes a clear coat to protect the paint from the environment, rust protection, and scotch guard for the seats. i didn't ask for the price, I didn't want it.

5) Lo-Jack. They push this one so hard that it must be a big profit maker for them. If you don't know, Lo-Jack is a tracking device they put on your car and register it with the police. If your car is stolen you call the police and they can track it down. I didn't ask the price.

 

 

Just want to make you guys aware that the Premium Maintenance Service Package is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. It's a complete waste of money.

 

The Fusion Hybrid uses regenerative braking and needs no brake pad change until well after 100,000 miles. (Not a typo!) And it has no timing belt, no alternators, no starter motor or solenoid that needs replacement. The hybrid drivetrain is already covered for up to 10 years / 150,000 miles depending on where you bought and registered the car. The 30,000 and 60,000 mile service are simply multi-point inspections. Nor worth the $1,900 at all!

[rfruth]

*NO* Premium Maintenance Service Package for me !

[rfruth]

is it accurate to say the FFH is the same as a gen 2 Prius (hybrid wise) ?

[Quincy]

is it accurate to say the FFH is the same as a gen 2 Prius (hybrid wise) ?

 

They share the same kind of Power Split Device drivetrain, though the various components are different.

 

The 2nd-Gen Prius has a 1.5L engine and a 60hp MG2 traction motor, while the Fusion Hybrid has a 2.5L engine and a 90hp MG2 traction motor. Plus the battery pack (their control electronics and software, how they charge, and their capacity) is different between the Prius and Fusion Hybrid.

 

How the power split device system works is pretty universal among Toyota, Lexus, Ford and Nissan hybrids though (these are the four carmakers that uses the PSD drive system in their hybrids). These all use the Planetary gearset with the MG2 turning the outside ring gear (which directly drives the car's wheels), the gasoline engine turning the middle planetary gears (through the planetary carrier assembly), and the MG1 countertorque motor connected to the sun gear at the center of the PSD gearset. This webpage can explain how the three mesh together much better than I can: http://www.eahart.com/prius/psd\

 

Hope this helps!

[robm15]

Just want to make you guys aware that the Premium Maintenance Service Package is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. It's a complete waste of money.

 

I completely agree Quincy. I was shocked when he told me that price.

[Oman]

I'm glad I wasn't offered this option - I might have killed the deal right there. I did end up purchasing ESP though, I did some checking on repair costs for things like the BLISS sensors and such. Wow - is that stuff expensive to replace. It was interesting to find out where they drew the line between the hybrid components and the regular warranty. Essentially everything to do with the ICE is standard warranty even though that engine only exists on the hybrid. I'm usually not an extended warranty guy but lately the repair/replacement costs have been skyrocketing out of control.

 

Jon

 

 

I completely agree Quincy. I was shocked when he told me that price.

[WAFFH]

Which ESP plan did you purchase? Length? Miles? Was your price better at the dealership than what Ford offers on the internet or other Ford dealers that have Ford ESP plans on the internet?

 

Depending on the time you plan to keep your FFH or the amount of miles you drive would probably determine which Ford ESP plan one would purchase. I haven't decided which I will go with. I am suppose to get my car either this Friday or Saturday. Unless the dealer offers a much better price than I can get directly from Ford or other offers on the internet, I may wait a while since there is not any additional charges if you purchase within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles.

[rfruth]

Its been a week 15, first impressions ?

[robm15]

Its been a week 15, first impressions ?

 

 

Yes, and what a great week it has been too! :shift:

 

I love the car rfruth! I have driven 300 miles, still over a half tank of gas, and averaging 41.7 mpg. It is such a pleasure to drive that my normal driving technique, if you can call a lead foot a technique, has changed to speed limit driving and casual. The seats are so comfortable that I don't get a sore back at all any more on the way to and from work. And the only complaint my wife made to me the other day is that when she drives it, it makes her want to drive to make the leaves grow. She loves cars with beefy V8's, but she really likes my car too! The handling in tight turns is so nice. The acceleration power is more than adequate. Just as a reminder, in my mind I compare everything to my last car, a 2007 Camry hybrid. But this 2010 FFH is a luxury car compared to the Camry.

[KarenD]

It is such a pleasure to drive that my normal driving technique, if you can call a lead foot a technique, has changed to speed limit driving and casual. The seats are so comfortable that I don't get a sore back at all any more on the way to and from work. And the only complaint my wife made to me the other day is that when she drives it, it makes her want to drive to make the leaves grow.

 

Same here--I used to be in the left lane watching for cops and now I'm hanging out in the right lane tending to my leaves. Slow down for a construction zone? No problem--that means more green on the display. :)

 

We found that financing through our bank was a better rate than through the dealer. At the time we bought at least, there were no Ford Motor Credit incentives on the hybrid and the banks the dealer worked with came back with two very different rates, both higher than our bank. It was pretty easy to arrange--applied online, approved via e-mail, a couple phone calls, printed out the paperwork from a secure website and FedExed it to the bank, who transferred the money into my account so we could get a cashier's check for the total purchase price.

[Oman]

I took the last 2 vehicles I had and worked out the yearly mileage, along with adjustments since the old vehicles were trucks and saw slightly different usage than the car will. I got the Premium care (since I wanted coverage for the electronics most of all) and did 7, 100K. I paid a few hundred less than the MSRP chart.

 

I could have gotten it cheaper online, but ESP can get sketchy if you don't go back to the originating dealer when/if you go for the prorated refund.

 

You can't actually buy the ESP plan from Ford (at least this is what Ford told me). Every site that pretends to be Ford is actually a dealer selling the warranties online, which Ford frowns on but doesn't seem to actually stop.

 

Jon

 

 

Which ESP plan did you purchase? Length? Miles? Was your price better at the dealership than what Ford offers on the internet or other Ford dealers that have Ford ESP plans on the internet?

 

Depending on the time you plan to keep your FFH or the amount of miles you drive would probably determine which Ford ESP plan one would purchase. I haven't decided which I will go with. I am suppose to get my car either this Friday or Saturday. Unless the dealer offers a much better price than I can get directly from Ford or other offers on the internet, I may wait a while since there is not any additional charges if you purchase within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles.

[WAFFH]

You can't actually buy the ESP plan from Ford (at least this is what Ford told me). Every site that pretends to be Ford is actually a dealer selling the warranties online, which Ford frowns on but doesn't seem to actually stop.

 

 

I think that you can buy Ford ESP directly from Ford. There are a lot of dealerships selling Ford ESP but to get it directly from Ford, take a look at:

 

https://www.genuineservice.com/esp/plandetails.do

 

or https://www.genuineservice.com/esp/purchase.do

 

or call The Ford ESP Call Center: 800-367-3377

 

CHECK IT OUT!

[Quincy]

I got the Premium care (since I wanted coverage for the electronics most of all) and did 7, 100K.

 

Oy, the hybrid electronics are already covered by warranty for 8 years / 100,000 miles standard, 10 years / 150,000 miles in the eight states with California emissions laws.

 

That Premium care package is rather expensively redundant if you are worried about the hybrid electronics!

[Oman]

The hybrid specific components are covered by part 3 of the warranty (8 / 100 for me), but not the gas engine - that is part 2. The Nav system master module is about $1,600, the main Sync interface is about $600, any of the BLISS sensors run about $300 each. I was poking through the inventory system at the dealer to see what the prices are for stuff and I could not believe the cost of some of the modules. I think the side-view mirrors ran around $400.

 

One of the questions I had was if damage from a failed converter would be covered under the converter warranty... apparently not if the failed part wasn't covered. The converter supplies the 12 volts from the 275. Sometimes when they fail they will send a surge. Like most insurance it is usually overpriced, but in this case I just wanted not to have to worry.

 

Jon

 

 

Oy, the hybrid electronics are already covered by warranty for 8 years / 100,000 miles standard, 10 years / 150,000 miles in the eight states with California emissions laws.

 

That Premium care package is rather expensively redundant if you are worried about the hybrid electronics!