12v dead if evse left connected

[ffe]

My car went to the shop a month ago for a deer collision.  And when I got it back I started seeing this message on the apim screen about shutting down to preserve battery.  I also noticed that my accessory outlets which used to stay on for a long time no longer did.

 

Now several several times since the body shop I have come out to my car in the morning and found it completely dead.  Just today the 12 volt battery measured 1.6 volts! 

 

It seems to charge back to 12 at least with an external charger.  But this should not be happening. My understanding is that after the Hvb is topped off it should trickle charge the 12 volt battery until the end of time.  But I'm wondering if some sort of fuse is blown and instead of charging at 12 volt battery, some module is staying active and draining it.

 

I'm reluctant to buy a new battery until I know what's draining it.  I don't want to damage a new one. 

 

But when I do buy a new one is it worth trying to find an AGM?  An excide yellowtop even?  I loved having one of those in my prius.

 

I installed a victron SmartShunt current shunt between the negative battery terminal and the chassis to measure phantom current draw and so far I haven't caught it sipping more than 100 ma.  I have seen tens of amps even a peak to 100 amps, going into the battery immediately after startup.  And I've seen the battery get as low as 9.5 volts.  Though after giving it a full charge with an external 12 volt charger it seems to stay above 11.5. 

 

Is there a serious risk that a bad 12 battery could damage the back or dc-to-dc converter by eating up to much current?  Or are those dc-to-dc converters designed to survive a dead short, fused to prevent damage?

 

I think the biggest current draw while everything was off was the damn incandescent trunk light, so I disconnected that!  Ought to put a switch on it and swap to led.

 

Here's what my voltage/current do when parked and charging.

https://ibb.co/DQNqsD1

Edited August 19 by ffe
Added agreed screen shot

[aschulz261]

How old is the 12V battery?  If it was sitting at a shop for a month  without running it for awhile, the battery is junk.  Yes, the "big "battery charges the "little" battery....but, only when the vehicle is running.  When turned off, they are isolated from each other.  Replace the 12V battery and you will be fine.

I don't know about replacing the battery with an AGM or lithium.  I had read years ago that there is a specific charging profile  based on the type of battery.  Unless you can change that profile, it won't charge "correctly".  What that means, I don't know.

 

What i do know, the factory battery is very small.  It dies regularly because it's small.  You can recharge it, but it's still damaged and needs to be replaced.  The specific size is the only thing that fits in the battery tray without mods.

 

Put a battery in it and call it a day.

[ffe]

10 hours ago, aschulz261 said:

How old is the 12V battery?

2018 when the car was built.

 

Why would a dead battery only sink too low to turn on the car when I leave the car plugged IN to the evse?

 

If it's NOT plugged in to the evse (charger), then it's floating at 12.9v, less than 0.1 amps drawn.

 

One would expect a charger to add energy not remove it.  It sounds like some computer is staying on after charging is complete and using the 12v battery.

Edited August 19 by ffe
Typo

[billford]

Current draw should average less than .050 amps, 50 milliamps after sitting undisturbed for 1 hour. 

Do a proper battery test. Disconnect it from the car. Charge it overnight. Let it sit overnight then test it with a carbon pile load tester. One half cca for 15 seconds. 

I put an agm in my hybrid, but I had to make a larger battery tray to secure it. Its been 2+ years with no problems and it works fine.  

 

[ffe]

I'm going to have to build something to test idle current. Or clip a dmm to the frame somewhere and to the negative battery terminal and disconnect the frame from the battery at the same time.

 

Have any pics of the tray you made?  Sounds like quite a project since it has to hold up to vibration and potentially keep a 50 lb block of lead from becoming a projectile in a crash. 

 

I thought for sure I would have to find an AGM matching the exact geometry of my OEM battery so I took some photos today.  Enjoy: https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhVdVgkLRhmiTURE9

 

 

[VILSIS]

I'm also interested in an AGM Battery for my 2018 FFH. Yust now I haven't fund one how would fit the battery tray. Please let us know when you find a solution. Thanks

[ffe]

37 minutes ago, VILSIS said:

I'm also interested in an AGM Battery for my 2018 FFH. Yust now I haven't fund one how would fit the battery tray. Please let us know when you find a solution. Thanks

I gather the "form factor" is called series 90.  

 

And the pictures I took you can see all the dimensions x y and z, and the dimensions of the flange that holds it in.  I believe the battery has a flange on all four sides at its bottom.  But the tray only holds the two small sides on the front and back of the car.  It might be possible to pass a ratchet strap under the tray.  A few laps of that, should be just as strong as the hold down clamp from Ford. 

 

Ford designed it with a nylon strap that goes over the battery and bolts closed.  This strap is loose and I'm guessing it's just some sort of backup.  It is mostly held in place by a wedge clamp that presses down into the flange of the battery.

 

I would also recommend you take a look and forscan and see what charge profiles the car supports.  Changing battery chemistry might be a bad idea if you cannot adjust the charger to match it.  

Edited August 20 by ffe

[VILSIS]

Thanks for your answer.

[ffe]

I have some more detail to offer you.  someone found an AGM battery that "fit perfectly" at Sams:

https://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/4751-2017-fusion-energi-dead-battery-issues/page/2/#comments

 

75DTAGM is the model number so maybe you can find it via another seller.  googling it looks like Duracell is the brand!  Also, look for a -R version or some other variation for reversed terminals, so they're reachable through that stupid door flap in the trunk.  I don't like the idea of having the terminals facing the metal wall of the car for several reasons.  many battery brands offer "reversed termninal directions" on their batteries because cars are weird and inconsistent.

Edited August 21 by ffe

[VILSIS]

Thanks ffe,  I think Duracell don't have the 75DTAGM anymore in fabrication.

[ffe]

On 8/19/2024 at 6:04 AM, aschulz261 said:

Put a battery in it and call it a day.

 

I haven't put a new 12v battery in it. 

 

But I did change the evse I was using and it's behaving now.  I had a cheap Amazon one bolted to the ceiling for three years and that's the one the 12v was dying on.

 

Instead I've been using the Ford once the last few days and no problems...  I wonder if a bug crawled into the one on the ceiling.... 

 

It's too bad there not a log I can review to see why the car wasn't shutting down all it's computers.,..

 

Also is the 12v charging routine of the evse supposed to be 14 volts, like when the ignition is on? Or some lower voltage?

[Henry]

I went out of town for couple of weeks, after two weeks when I turned on 2014 FFH, instrument cluster was blank,  however car did turn on, drove the car for 15min then measured battery voltage and it measured 11.7v.  I tried to look for after market battery, it is a small battery and only after market battery that fit wasT4, it was little cheaper then OEM,. Ended up buying OEM batter for $175. Old battery sticker was 10/17 so it lasted for almost 7 years, so buy OEM Battery. 

[Sky14FFH]

Just an FYI Rockauto sells a Ford/Motorcraft AGM that matches the FFH.  https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8879268&cc=3300323&pt=2476&jsn=599

$163.79 + $18.00 core

I'm on the original battery, however it does sometimes get low and I get that warning saving battery thing from time to time.  During the pandemic when my car was sitting a lot I got a NOCO 5 amp battery charger for sale during black friday.  I also tried the 10amp but found it bulky and for some reason not as good. Anyway, it has saved me from having to buy new batteries for either of my cars 4 years on.

[ffe]

@meyersnole  can you check on the energi forum>  i see error EX6 when I try to PM on there and can not post to new or old threads

[ffe]

Maybe just luck.  probably unrelated, but I took mine out, fliped it over a few times to measure it and then shook it quite a bit, and put it back in, charged it with an external charger.  I also stopped using the 3rd party EVSE and went to only the ford one, and in the last couple weeks since jumping through those hoops it hasn't "died" on me again.  IT does still show the message of shame on the APIM and the accessory outlets don't stay on very long.  so I think I rejuvinated it a little but its mostly still screwed.  I think the body shop left the trunk open over a weekend or something and killed it when they had it.

[Sky14FFH]

23 hours ago, ffe said:

 I think the body shop left the trunk open over a weekend or something and killed it when they had it.

Welp you could try a desulfating 'smart' battery charger like the Noco ($45 black friday) which should buy you a few years if you don't want to fork out the dough for a new battery.  It has worked for me but I can't say the battery is "like new" but it is working as long as I don't let the car sit for a week or more.