Numerous Dash Warnings and Chimes

[Tutone56]

(I posted this in the 2013-2016 section but thought I'd put it here also.)

 

Hey all - The other day I received numerous dash warnings and my car wouldn't start. I went into a store for a few minutes and when I tried starting the car I got a lot of warnings and chimes. After sitting for about 1 1/2 hours it started. I drove it 4 miles to a ford dealer. The turn signal was twice the normal speed so I new it was still messed up. The dealer has had it for 2 full days now and can't seem to pinpoint the problem. They tested around 18 modules and they all passed. They told me it is a communication issue but haven't been able to figure it out. They said it could be a broken wire but who knows. Has anyone else come across this problem or maybe have some thoughts? Here are the messages in order of appearance:

 

Low Engine Oil Pressure

Stop Safely Now

Steering Assist Fault Service Required

Service Advance Trac

Engine Coolant Overtemperature

Motor Coolant Overtemperature

Check Rear Parking Aid

See Manual

Park Brake Malfunction Service Now

 

 

[Zathrus]

Have them perform a load-test on the 12V battery. The 12V battery may be failing to provide the proper power to the electronics, that's why you are getting the dash warnings. Others on this forum have reported the "Christmas Lights" dash display and said replacing the 12V battery solved the issue.

[jediboytj]

Have them perform a load-test on the 12V battery. The 12V battery may be failing to provide the proper power to the electronics, that's why you are getting the dash warnings. Others on this forum have reported the "Christmas Lights" dash display and said replacing the 12V battery solved the issue.

 

 

+1 to this. I had nearly the same identical issue on my 2012. Multiple warning lights and chimes, and a no start. I was, however, able to get it jumped. Once I had it replaced the next day, no more warning lights (get a Motorcraft battery!)

[Tutone56]

Thanks for the input. I think they checked the battery first and it was fine. They finally figured out the problem. I'm not sure of the name of the part and they can't figure out why this happened. The main computer module had zero data in it. They contacted ford (I guess they store all the data for every car they produce) and flashed the module in the car. I picked it up yesterday and so far all is well.

[lolder]

When Ford checks the 12 vdc battery, that may not be sufficient. Next time this happens, don't bother to take it to the dealer and replace the 12 vdc battery first. This is a chronic complaint on Ford hybrids.

Edited June 7, 2017 by lolder

[Tutone56]

When Ford checks the 12 vdc battery, that may not be sufficient. Next time this happens, don't bother to take it to the dealer and replace the 12 vdc battery first. This is a chronic complaint on Ford hybrids.

Well it happened again yesterday. Same issue. What I don't understand is why it will start again after sitting for a while (50 minutes yesterday). It's at the dealer now and I mentioned the 12v battery. I haven't tried to replace the battery because car is still under warranty and the battery is covered (according to them). We'll see what happens next.

[murphy]

With the car sitting in the off state the 12 volt battery voltage may rise just enough to make it possible to pull in the contactors that connect the HVB to the car. Once the HVB is connected the DC to DC converter begins charging the battery and everything will be fine from then on. I carry a 12 volt 7 AH gel cell battery with two clip leads to use to kickstart the car in this situation. I've never had to use it.

[lolder]

The cars are very finicky about having a perfect 12 vdc battery that the normal battery tests won't assure. It's cheaper in these cases to replace the 12 vdc battery first, warranty or not.

[Vlad Soare]

What I find ironic is that these cars seem to be more sensitive to a weak 12-volt battery than normal cars are, although one would expect it to be the other way around.

Batteries in a normal cars must be able to provide an enormous current to turn the engine, while also maintaining a clean 12V voltage for a plethora of sensors and electronic modules. And they manage to do that without a fuss, over and over again, for many years. In a hybrid car, on the other hand, the battery only has to be able to power a relay to pull a contactor. It's a ridiculously simple job. And yet it fails to do that unless it's completely charged and in absolutely perfect health. That seems very strange to me. I would expect it to take more abuse than a regular car's battery before failing.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Vlad Soare

[Texasota]

In a hybrid car, on the other hand, the battery only has to be able to power a relay to pull a contactor. It's a ridiculously simple job. And yet it fails to do that unless it's completely charged and in absolutely perfect health. That seems very strange to me. I would expect it to take more abuse than a regular car's battery before failing.

I am no expert on this but it is my understanding that in the FFH the 12 volt battery still powers that same plethora of sensors and electronic modules. In addition it also powers the the radio, infotainment system, power windows, power seats, etc. Somebody more knowledgeable than me can correct me if I am wrong about this.

 

I would assume other hybrid cars are also designed the same way. If it did not operate this way then all of those devices consuming 12 volt DC power would have to be redesigned to accept power from the HVB or else a transformer would be required to power those devises from the HVB.

[Vlad Soare]

 

I am no expert on this but it is my understanding that in the FFH the 12 volt battery still powers that same plethora of sensors and electronic modules. In addition it also powers the the radio, infotainment system, power windows, power seats, etc.

 

Indeed, but all of these are not essential to the actual start of the car. In a non-hybrid car all these sensors and electronic modules must work perfectly for the engine to start, because the whole engine management system relies heavily on them. And after powering them all, the battery must still be able to provide the immense current needed to turn the engine. In a hybrid car, after powering all of the sensors and modules, the battery only needs to provide enough current to pull a contactor. And that contactor can be pulled regardless of how well those sensors and modules happen to work at the time.

So, why is this car more sensitive to a weak battery than an identical car with an Ecoboost engine is? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

What am I missing?

Edited June 15, 2017 by Vlad Soare

[Texasota]

Indeed, but all of these are not essential to the actual start of the car. In a non-hybrid car all these sensors and electronic modules must work perfectly for the engine to start, because the whole engine management system relies heavily on them. And after powering them all, the battery must still be able to provide the immense current needed to turn the engine. In a hybrid car, after powering all of the sensors and modules, the battery only needs enough current to pull a contactor. And that contactor can be pulled regardless of how well those sensors and modules happen to work at the time.

So why is this car more sensitive to a weak battery than the same car with an Ecoboost engine is? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

What am I missing?

 

I would assume the FFH's ICE still has all those same (or largely similar) sensors and electronic modules that require power from the 12 V battery before it can be started. Granted, the ICE may not start until you have driven a half mile down the road but it still requires 12V power even with the absence of a 12 V starter motor cranking the ICE.

 

I don't think the 12 V battery issue is limited to just hybrid cars. Today's non-hybrid cars also place larger demands on the 12 V battery then cars of the past. I think you can find this same issue being discusses on forums for conventional cars.

[Vlad Soare]

I would assume the FFH's ICE still has all those same (or largely similar) sensors and electronic modules that require power from the 12 V battery before it can be started. Granted, the ICE may not start until you have driven a half mile down the road but it still requires 12V power even with the absence of a 12 V starter motor cranking the ICE.

 

Sure it does. But that happens later. By the time the ICE tries to start, the HVB has already been connected and can charge the 12-volt battery. In a normal car, once the engine has started, all devices are fed 12V by the alternator no matter how weak the battery is. The same happens here - once the HVB has been connected, the charging system provides 12 volts regardless of how weak the battery is. Or at least that's how I imagine it. I could be wrong.

The only critical action is connecting the HVB. If that succeeds, then all is well.

 

 

I don't think the 12 V battery issue is limited to just hybrid cars. Today's non-hybrid cars also place larger demands on the 12 V battery then cars of the past. I think you can find this same issue being discusses on forums for conventional cars.

 

There may be non-hybrid cars around there suffering from the same weakness, but the Ecoboost and diesel variants of the latest Mondeo don't seem to be among them, at least as far as I can tell from two other Ford forums I happen to frequent. Neither was the previous generation Mondeo in all its petrol and diesel incarnations, despite its being as stuffed with electric and electronic devices as its younger brother is today.

The hybrid Mondeo is still too new in Europe to draw meaningful conclusions about it, but I think it's essentially the same as the Fusion. Which makes me wonder why the hybrid Fusion is so sensitive to weak batteries, when its non-hybrid siblings aren't.

 

Going by my reasoning above, a hybrid wouldn't need as big and powerful a battery as a non-hybrid. Could it be that Ford thought of that and decided to install smaller, weaker batteries in the hybrid? And maybe they went just a bit too far? Maybe they made them just a bit too small?

Edited June 16, 2017 by Vlad Soare

[Texasota]

Going by my reasoning above, a hybrid wouldn't need as big and powerful a battery as a non-hybrid. Could it be that Ford thought of that and decided to install smaller, weaker batteries in the hybrid? And maybe they went just a bit too far? Maybe they made them just a bit too small?

I think many would agree with that. Murphy seems to have solved that problem for his Energi by replacing the OEM battery with an AGM battery. I am watching my 2015 FFH S closely but so far I have not seen any indications of battery problems and I have not seen the battery saver message. My FFH has considerably less 12 V power consuming devices/modules since it is a model S. That may be playing a role in why I have not seen any 12 V battery issues so far.

 

I do plan to replace it with an Ford Motorcraft AGM battery at five years (maybe sooner) even if the OEM battery is still functioning fine.

[ceilidhdog]

I think many would agree with that. Murphy seems to have solved that problem for his Energi by replacing the OEM battery with an AGM battery. I am watching my 2015 FFH S closely but so far I have not seen any indications of battery problems and I have not seen the battery saver message. My FFH has considerably less 12 V power consuming devices/modules since it is a model S. That may be playing a role in why I have not seen any 12 V battery issues so far.

 

I do plan to replace it with an Ford Motorcraft AGM battery at five years (maybe sooner) even if the OEM battery is still functioning fine.

 

Does Ford make such a battery? I don't find anything by searching. Thanks.

[Texasota]

 

Does Ford make such a battery? I don't find anything by searching. Thanks.

 

It was this post that led me to believe there is one available: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/8252-climate-control-issues/?p=105813

 

I found this link which seems to indicate there is a Motorcraft AGM battery available for the FFH:

 

https://owner.ford.com/how-tos/vehicle-features/power-and-battery/choosing-the-right-battery.html

Edited June 17, 2017 by Texasota

[Vlad Soare]

How can you tell what kind of battery you have?

This is how mine looks. No indication about what kind of technology it's based on.

Does this label tell you anything? Is it good enough, or should I start thinking about getting a better one? Is it the same as the ones you have on your Fusions?

Edited June 17, 2017 by Vlad Soare

[Tutone56]

So just a quick update. I haven't had a chance to find out if they tried a new battery but after 4 days they still haven't tracked down the problem. I'm sorry I don't know the technical terms but the car is running fine right now but they have a computer readout showing it threw about 20 codes. They sent the data to Ford and we're waiting for their analysis. (They gave me a loner non hybrid fusion). I hope they can figure this out soon.

[lolder]

Replace the 12 vdc battery.

[Tutone56]

So I'm getting very frustrated with this car. The dealer sent the codes to Ford and Ford told them to remove the module for the remote start and see what happens. I used it (occasionally) for a few weeks and didn't have a problem. Called the dealer 2 days ago and they ordered a new remote starter module. Today I tried starting it after going to a store and I had the maintenance required light come on, along with a wrench and a red triangle with ! in it. The car wouldn't start but I could put it in gear (unlike the previous times). It did start a few minutes later. I'm ready to trade it in...