New transmission followed by constant CEL

[rachaar]

Hey all - I have been really enjoying reading through a lot of these posts, lurking for a long time since I bought my hybrid new in '13. Finally decided it was time to post my own stuff based on what I've had going on the past month+. I did find this post from last year but didn't want to bring it back from the dead.

 

End of September of this year I notice my '13 FFH, which has just crossed 90k miles, is making a weird noise. Brought it to the independent mechanic we take all our cars to (he's the most honest man I've ever met) and first conclusion was that I needed four new tires. Which I did need anyway, and happily got, but there was still a noise, just a slightly different one. He got it back the next day and even took it around to two buddies of his before he concluded it was the transmission and it would have to go to the dealer.

 

Took the dealer three weeks to find the time to diagnose it themselves; tear down the transmission; call Ford for advice; wait for parts from Ford; and finally put it back together again. During this time they said all their loaners were out and there was a waiting list, so I went out of pocket on rental cars. When I finally got it back, the explanation was that the contacts were corroded on the barometer and map sensor contacts, so they cleaned them up and put everything back together. I went off happy as a clam, got gas at the station just up the street, and when I started her up again... check engine light. I turned right around and drove it back into the service bay. They gave me a little Focus loaner and off I went.

 

A week later, they say she's ready. I go back in to pick it up. This time it waited until the next morning to turn on again. And this time, no reasonable little Focus for a loaner - no, they gave me this RIDICULOUS F-150 XL. I drive 60 miles one way to work every day and the idea of having my 50 MPG highway hybrid replaced with this idiot truck did not make me happy... not to mention the fact that I'm just not comfortable driving the thing. But they still insist they have no other car available for me to drive.

 

They've had the car since a week ago Saturday and called this morning to tell me the check engine light turned on for them once more on what was going to be their last test drive before they turned it back over to me. NC lemon laws say they have four times or more to try to fix the same problem, so after this they get one more shot if the light comes back on. And they still say I have to keep driving the truck!

 

As the transmission was covered under the 100,000 "unique hybrid component" warranty and they're doing the CEL repairs for free since it's (fairly obviously, in my opinion) something they did when fixing the transmission that's been causing it to go off, I've paid for none of this, which is the only saving grace. Though it does make me suspect that they're jerking my chain because I'm not a "paying customer."

 

So two questions here. One, is there anyone else on the forums with a 2013 FFH that has reported a transmission problem? There were three at the time of the thread I linked above from a year and a half ago. I did call Ford's main customer service number and got it recorded by them so they were aware of it even before this all happened.

 

Second question is kind of rhetorical: do I even want this car anymore? This is my first Ford and this experience has really turned me off. I loved this car until this happened and now I'm wondering whether I can trust it for the next 100,000 miles. If the lemon laws do end up getting triggered that'll kind of answer the question for me but I'm at a loss in the meantime. I want to believe it's dealer incompetence and not Ford itself but I really have to wonder...

[lolder]

Contacts on the barometer and MAP sensor do not cause the transmission to make noise. That is usually caused by bad bearings in the transmission and Ford replaced a fair number of these early 2013-14 transmissions. Dealers did not service them. They were told to remove them and replace. Maybe that's changed, I doubt it. Has the transmission stopped making the noise? There are all sorts of problems that can crop up in a major repair that can turn on a CEL when you remove and replace a transmission. The 2013's had too many early problems; transmission failures and oil leaks, air conditioning duct mold, etc. If they replaced the transmission it's probably OK but it sounds like they didn't.

Edited November 2, 2016 by lolder

[rachaar]

Thanks lolder - appreciate your input. To clarify, the sensors were not what was causing the noise in the first place. That was a transmission bearing that had failed. The sensors are what they have told me have caused the check engine light problem that has happened since the transmission was replaced.

 

The car sounded great for the few times I have gotten to drive it since they did the initial work. I'm pretty sure they fixed the transmission problem. But I'm really concerned that they can't seem to figure out what's causing the check engine light to keep coming on.

 

Is it really something that's common to have the CEL crop up after a transmission problem? I was thinking it was a sign that the dealers did a crappy job.

 

To your point about the early problems in the 2013s, that brings me back to whether I even want to keep this car. Is it likely I'm going to see more problems after this?

[lolder]

Removing and replacing a transmission is a big job. Lot's of things are unplugged and moved around so there are lots of opportunities for damage or incorrect procedures. The CEL should leave DTCs that should lead to a proper repair. Insist upon it. It's common for dealers to do a crappy job. I had a '78 Olds diesel wagon that blew three head gaskets in the six months that I owned it. Each time I got it back from the warranty repair I spent about an hour fixing stuff in the engine compartment that they hadn't done right; crimped and mis-routed hoses wires, etc. About six months after I sold it my wife got a call from the new owner wondering about the Olds dealer's competence. Apparently it had blown another head gasket. When they were placing the hood back on the car they dropped it through the windshield and were currently waiting for a replacement.

CELs are usually emissions related items so broken or cracked hoses etc., are a common problem. Once they fix the CEL problem you're probably OK. Did they swap out the transmission or take it apart and replace the bearing? If it was the latter, that's a first to my knowledge. If they didn't replace the whole transmission, I'd get rid of it. Who knows what parts of failed bearings got loose in the transmission. Maybe they have an approved procedure now.

You transmission made by Ford is an "improved" version of all the previous transmissions that were built in Japan by Aisin, the "Borg-Warner" of Japan. Between the 2005-12 Ford Escapes and 2010-12 Ford, Mercury and Lincoln hybids, Aisin supplied about 200,000 transmissions. I have never heard of any of them failing particularly the 2010-12s. I expect these Aisin transmissions to be intact in junk yards 50 years from now with the rusted remains of a car around them.

Edited November 4, 2016 by lolder

[lolder]

A little note about the GM diesel cars. The engine was not just a diesel 350 cu in. V-8. The crankshaft bearings were 1/2 inch thicker and the rod bearings were 1/4 thicker. The block had the same layout and the channels between the cylinders and the water passages were the same and that's where the gaskets blew. At the end they put very high strength high torque head bolts in and that stopped the blown gasket problem but by then the damage to the car's reputation was complete. The fuel injectors were also cheap and unreliable.The injectors and fuel pump are the heart of a diesel.

[ptjones]

A little note about the GM diesel cars. The engine was not just a diesel 350 cu in. V-8. The crankshaft bearings were 1/2 inch thicker and the rod bearings were 1/4 thicker. The block had the same layout and the channels between the cylinders and the water passages were the same and that's where the gaskets blew. At the end they put very high strength high torque head bolts in and that stopped the blown gasket problem but by then the damage to the car's reputation was complete. The fuel injectors were also cheap and unreliable.The injectors and fuel pump are the heart of a diesel.

I had a Blazer 4X4 with that engine and the Head bolts were a problem, I did get good gas mileage. The truck was of poor quality, blew torque converter 5k mi and axles were off by an inch so the truck went down the road sideways. ;( I thought the best thing about the truck was the diesel engine.

 

Paul

[rachaar]

Thanks for all of your input. I really appreciate it.

 

to answer your question, I believe the entire transmission was repaired, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

an update: The Ford regional customer service manager has been on the case (I alerted FordService on Twitter and got their attention right away). Apparently my dealership has told her that they feel that they have done more than is warranted to repair the CEL issue and feel that it's time for me to start paying for their time. I feel that this is THEIR problem, as the CEL did not happen until literally 10 minutes after the car was back in my possession after the first repair, and I strongly disagree that I should be paying for it. At this point I don't trust them at all to fix it, but if I take it somewhere else saying it's a workmanship issue, it's not likely that they'll want to touch it.

 

This has all really soured me on Fords.

[billford]

DId anyone say what the code is that is causing the CEL?

[ls97]

NC lemon laws say they have four times or more to try to fix the same problem, so after this they get one more shot if the light comes back on.

 

Your used 2013 with 90000 miles covered under a lemon law? I really doubt it, as most lemon laws are only for new vehicles. There may be some states that take it a step further, but I doubt if any cover that many miles.

 

If you are relying on a lemon law to help you, make sure your state actually has one that covers your vehicle year and miles.

 

Here is a link to a NC Lemon Law attorney who says there is NO lemon law for used cars. The only remedy in some cases is IF the car is still under original factory warranty.

 

He says the federal law known as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act applies to used vehicles that are still under the original manufacturer warranty. NOT sure if that means bumper to bumper warranty, powertrain warranty, or unique hybrid component warranty. Might want to contact him or someone just to see if you may have a case. Best of luck

 

 

http://www.filenclemonlaw.com/Lemon-Law-Overview/Lemon-Law-for-Used-Cars.shtml

Edited November 12, 2016 by ls97

[ptjones]

I think the Hybrid Parts Warranty is 100k/8yrs hopefully you can get FORD to jump in and get it fixed. :) I'm thinking better FORD Dealer. :drop:

 

Paul

[Robby]

I am a new member, my wife is the primary driver of our 2013 FFH. We ordered this car as a Job1 car from Mexico when they first brought this new model in, for 29k miles we had zero issues the last 400 the transmission was making what I would call a bearing noise when she was in hybrid mode and pushing the gas pedal. We took the car in to the dealer, they said the same thing I was thinking, which was there was something wrong with the transmission, long story short. They called Ford, and the tech inspected one item on the transmission, and Ford said replace under warranty. The service manager placed an order for a transmission and they told him it was on back order with no time frame when the order would be filled. A month later they have the new transmission in and we get our car back.

 

So based on what I am reading here is that transmission failure isn't a totally common thing in the Fusion, or people just aren't reporting it in the forums?

[lolder]

It's common in early 2013+ FFH's and C Max's. It's believed to be bearing failure. It is a manufacturing defect. The failure rate or percentage is unknown but it should be zero.

[Texasota]

The failure rate or percentage is unknown but it should be zero.

Seriously? I doubt there is any transmission ever built in the entire history of the automotive industry that has a failure rate of zero.

[lolder]

Seriously, yes. A transmission like this should never have any early failures. Certainly not what we've seen on these forums.

[Texasota]

You have modified your original statement by qualifying it with "early failures" which may be more realistic when considering the mechanical aspects of this transmission. All mechanical devices will eventually fail given enough time. A manufacturing defect, even when extremely rare, can hasten that failure. When electronic devices fail it usually occurs early in their life and this transmission is full of electronics. Finally, this transmission is controlled by large quantities of complex software and you will never ever achieve zero defects in complex software systems.

 

A low failure rate is a reasonable expectation and a requirement in order for a manufacturer to remain competitive. A failure rate of zero is not a reasonable or realistic expectation.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Texasota

[Mark J. Smith]

I have have a 2013 with 85,000 miles. One day break light and orange wrench come at the same time. Ford has the car for a couple of days and tells me it's a transmission failure. They will fix but will take over week to get parts and install. 10 days go by and they have transmission in but the break light stil on. Next day they call and say they are two unrelated problems. Brake vacuum pump is now the problem. Two lights come at the same time but unrelated I don't think so! Now they want $1100.00 to fix this.

 

Can anyone say they've had the same problem. It just doesn't sit right with me.

[GrayStrider]

I am a new member, my wife is the primary driver of our 2013 FFH. We ordered this car as a Job1 car from Mexico when they first brought this new model in, for 29k miles we had zero issues the last 400 the transmission was making what I would call a bearing noise when she was in hybrid mode and pushing the gas pedal. We took the car in to the dealer, they said the same thing I was thinking, which was there was something wrong with the transmission, long story short. They called Ford, and the tech inspected one item on the transmission, and Ford said replace under warranty. The service manager placed an order for a transmission and they told him it was on back order with no time frame when the order would be filled. A month later they have the new transmission in and we get our car back.

 

So based on what I am reading here is that transmission failure isn't a totally common thing in the Fusion, or people just aren't reporting it in the forums?

I also have a Job 1 2013 FFH. Transmission was replaced in early 2015; now we have a leak in the replacement transmission. Dealer wants $1600+ to fix. Really don't think two transmission issues within the first 100K miles is supposed to happen. I have a 2005 Saturn VUE that's nearing 200K and I've NEVER had a transmission issue with it. Frustrated!

[lolder]

The transmission is guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles. Are you within that?