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I never buy them either, but I bought one for this car. The batteries have a long warranty. Look in your manual. . . Eneg

Hi, I wish that I could help you more with this, but right now it's pretty warm in Florida. As soon as it cools down a bit, I will try this as I'd like to know this for myself. I'm a little confused though. In your original note you had said that the air was "cold" in EV mode. Was it really cold, or just not as hot while in EV? I've driven "normal" cars that couldn't keep the windshied free of ice if the conditions were really bad. Had to use the winshield washer to help out. If in fact while driving in EV mode that the temperature does cool off by a couple of degrees, that just might have made the difference for you that night. What really has me baffled though is that my car doesn't stay in EV for very long (at least the way that I drive it.) So, even if the heated air was to cool down a little, I'd probably never notice it as the ICE is on most of the time. I would still GUESS that you don't have a problem with this. There should be plenty of FFH'rs who could try this out for you in colder climates. Please keep us updated on this. . . Eneg

I don't think that you have a problem, I think that you were just a victim of circumstances. Of course, I can't say for sure, but I can tell you that if you ever have the misfortune of being stuck in the snow, or whatever, just put the transmission in either Park or Neutral and just hold your foot on the accelerator. The ICE will come on and you should get all of the heat that you would need. . . Eneg

Hi Dclifford110910, Hmmm, that's a coincidence! My dealer also had 11 2010's on the lot when I bought my 11 in November! Not too far from you. Could we have bought from the same place????? Greenway Ford in Orlando. (They now have three left.) Eneg

I'm not questioning what you say, but I will tell you that the Ford website did say "excluding hybrid models," on all incentives through the end of 2010. It's hard to believe that it took at least four months to correct that. I started to shop the car this past Summer and have really kept a pretty close eye on the web site since then. I still do (don't ask me why:) ) That exclusion has been there until very recently. . . Eneg

Well, I don't get it, but all that I can say is "Nice goin'!" Eneg

Hmmm, something's missing here. I don't remember any incentives on the hybrids a few months back, so why would a dealer sell at 4k below cost? There has to be a reason. Was it a demo? Was it a returned car? Did you check with Carfax.com to make sure that there wasn't another owner between you & the dealer? How many miles were on the odometer when it was purchased? Just looking for an answer to this. . . Eneg

Hi MrMikeL, Are you sayiing that the car was marked $25,999 on the lot? There were no negotiations? Eneg

OY! Where do I start? First, when I said that I felt that this car might not be for you, I wasn't speaking of $$$$. I'm just not sure that you will be happy with the car iteslf. Just a feeling. . . There are a few things above that "you figure." Based on what? When it comes to the 502A package, you have the invoice number. You want to figure it a different way. I have no idea why, but so be it. CR is giving you general information. It will apply to some cars. The FFH isn't one of them. Walk into a Chevy dealer today and tell them that you want to buy a Volt at dealer cost, minus the holdback. Let me know when they stop laughing. Here's the question of the day for you: If you wanted to buy the car TODAY. You head down to your dealer with all of your spreadsheets. You haggle back & forth and the dealer says to you: "Final offer before tax & license fees - $31,150" (I think that was line 12.) Do you take it? One other thing: You quote a document fee of $55. Some dealers call them document fees, other dealers call them dealer fees. Your dealer may have both. Sometimes, after you settle on a price and you get down to the paperwork, there all nice and printed on the invoice might be a dealer/document fee of several hundred dollars. Just something to ask any dealer about when negotiating. Eneg

No, I stand by what I had said: You're making it complicated, especially for yourself. The MSRP number that you quoted is WITH destination. Destination & Holdback fees are non-negotiable, but if you want to keep them on your spreadsheets, be my guest! I'm telling you though, you are confusing yourself. Your invoice figure of 30,791 is also wrong. As for your figure of 664, I have no idea of what that is. The invoice & MSRP of the car is as I have quoted above. Very simple! Adding numbers that have no meaning is pointless in your negotiations. Maybe you should figure what the car actually costs Ford to build and add that to your numbers. . . On another subject, and I could be totally wrong, this car may not be for you. Eneg

You're making this way too complicated! Invoice on the car that you describe is-$30,269 MSRP on the car that you describe is - $33,095 There's your "wiggle room." Both prices exclude taxes, license fees, and document fees. Just remember, as oil prices rise, your wiggle room will decrease on hybrid vehicles. BTW - Document fees, at least as far as I have seen, are completely different than what you have described in your note. Best advice? When you are ready to buy, read forums like this one to see what people are paying AT THAT TIME! Eneg

Something is wrong with that figure ($31,559) and I think I might know what it is. Invoice for that car (I am assuming it is a 2011) is about $30,200. I have a feeling that CR is not showing you the automatic discount (about $1300) that Ford applies to the 502A package. Two other things: 1. I wouldn't get my hopes up re Holdback dollars. Unless it's a car that the dealer is stuck with, I have never heard of a dealer giving any of those dollars to customers. With most cars, especially the FFH, consider the Holdback dollars, the dealers. They are probably not negotiable. 2. You also said that the price quote was without "fees." You have to find out the cost of those fees. They can be lots of $$$$! Good Luck, Eneg

Yup, the car cannot be driven in EV mode until it is warmed up. After car is started, the ICE will come on and stay on until the normal operating temperature is reached. If gasoline keeps on rising, there will be no deals on these cars. You might want to rethink your position. . . Good luck, Eneg

I DON'T have an SEL, I have a hybrid. Same problem. . . Eneg

No Way! Eneg