Posts posted by Automate
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You also need to consider the other things besides the TSB that are suggested for repairing P1AOC
"Visually inspect the related wiring harness and connectors. Check for damaged components and look for broken, bent, pushed out, or corroded connector's pins"
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As far as reading from the modules the Lite versions of FORScan can read everything the full version can. The difference is the Windows version can write to modules to change settings and to put the modules into self test / diagnostic test modes. The dealer could have cleared all the fault codes from the modules so there is no guarantee they are still stored in the modules.
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What software did you use with your OBDII module? I would suggest FORScan.org
When I search "P1AOC" I see:
- Faulty Hybrid Powertrain Control Module
- Hybrid Powertrain Control Module harness is open or shorted
- Hybrid Powertrain Control Module circuit poor electrical connection
Read more: https://www.autocodes.com/p1a0c_ford.html
Nothing about the vapor canister except in the TSB but it mentions some other codes that should show up
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5 hours ago, burstonj said:Is there a working link to how to Forscan reset the EV battery age parameter for Ford Fusion hybrid?
https://www.fordfusionforum.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&controller=topic&id=19361
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3 hours ago, Mark J said:Can I go back in and change the setting again? I believe I set it to one. Thanks
Yes
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7 hours ago, Mark J said:Yes I did the forscan reset. It's been working correctly now. There's no need to have the dealer do the tsb, right? Thanks for reply.
There might be some risk if you used ForScan to reset the battery age all the way to zero. Obviously a battery does degrade over time. Its just a matter of how much. The original firmware was too conservative and protected the battery too much. But when you use ForScan to set the battery age to zero you are saying you have brand new battery with all the capacity that comes with a new battery. The battery aging feature of the firmware was there to protect the battery as it gets weaker with age.
So, after resetting the age with FroScan to zero, there is a risk you could over stress the old battery and cause it to fail completely where your car would not move or run. Although I have not heard of this happening to anyone. We just don't know how big this risk really is. I chose to reset my battery to 6 years old with Forscan. That still made a big difference in the way the car drives but I don't know how much of a difference it is from 0 years.
In theory, now that the batteries are 10+ years old, Ford could actually measure how much the batteries have degraded and put the proper factor into the new TSB firmware. On the other hand, how much effort are they going to put into firmware of 10+ year old vehicles?
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The ForScan change is very simple. All it does is tell the computer the battery is a young battery. The original module firmware improperly assumed the battery would be severely degraded after 9+ years. This turned out to be untrue. The original firmware limits how much power can be drawn from the old batteries.
The TSB fixes the firmware so it does not assume the battery is so weak when it is 9+ years old. One should be able to reset the car module battery age back to the true battery age using ForScan either before or after the TSB.
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12 hours ago, markwilson66 said:Now today the car will not go into EV mode at all! Not at idle, not in Park, not in Neutral, nothing. The ICE is on 100% of the time and seems to idle pretty high, around 100RPM.
How long has it been doing this? It may be doing an automatic battery reconditioning
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Sounds like the battery. You could check the voltage when the car is on to make sure the DC to DC module is charging the 12v battery.
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9 hours ago, SunnyB said:What is the number of the firmware version we should have if the TSB 20-2142 was properly done?
That is a good question. Below is what Forscan shows for my 2010 that has NOT had the TSB applied.
Not sure why it's showing no known upgrades for the Powertrain Control Module.
Hopefully someone who has had the upgrade will post theirs.
markwilson66 reacted to this -
On 8/18/2020 at 10:21 PM, SunnyB said:What would a mechanic need to be able to determine if the software update was done correctly or not?
An owner can also check the firmware version of their BECM and PCM modules using free Forscan software https://forscan.org/home.html and a cheap OBDII adapter.
markwilson66 reacted to this -
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Also some owners have stated a rebalance works so maybe it is software or maybe it is something else.
It is a combination of battery age and battery "health" The car's computer monitors the battery health by looking at the variation in voltage in each section of the battery. When the voltage in different sections of the battery starts to become unequal, the computer says the battery is degrading and will limit how much power is drawn from the battery. A re-balance may rejuvenate the battery health but it can't do anything about the battery age.
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From 2010 Fusion Hybrid Warranty Guide (dated June 2009). Other states may have changed their laws since then.
"Vehicles Eligible for Standard California Emission Warranty Coverage Standard California emission warranty coverage applies if your vehicle meets the following two requirements: • Your vehicle is registered in Pennsylvania, Oregon and Washington, and • Your vehicle is certified for sale in California as indicated on the vehicle emission control information label. (NOTE: Oregon has adopted the California AT PZEV battery warranty (10 yrs/150,000 miles) in addition to the standard California emissions warranty coverage that applies to all emissions components. Otherwise, vehicles in Pennsylvania, Oregon, and Washington do not receive the California AT PZEV extended emission warranty coverage.)"
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It does not seem to make any sense that at nine years there should be such a drastic change in hybrid performance.
Except, maybe it is because the battery comes with a 10 year warranty? By limiting the power the battery can supply they are limiting the stress on these old batteries. By limiting the stress they make sure the batteries will make it to the end of their 10 year warranty.
As it stands, they can just say this is normal battery aging. But if they allow the old battery to be over stressed and it completely fails and will not start the ICE, they have to replace an expensive battery under warranty. (assuming you also have under 100k miles)
markwilson66 reacted to this -
Maybe they determined the power rating (kW) is more important than the energy rating (kWh) . And with newer technology batteries they could get same same or more power out of a smaller battery.
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I recall that someone on this forum posted that the "rebalancing" procedure is different for the 2010 FFH with a Ni battery than with the newer FFH with the Li battery. When I pointed this our to my Ford dealer who had performed a rebalancing without success, the Tech told me that Ford Motor had instructed the dealer to use the same procedure on the 2010 as for the later models.
Does anyone have a reference to a Ford Tech bulletin or other source that indicates the need to rebalance differently for the 2010? I'd like to pass it on to the dealer.
Probably thinking of this
Update: The dealer contacted ford Engineering to make sure they were servicing the battery correctly, and they had me come back in because apparently the mechanics didn't realize they needed to configure the battery re-balancing system specifically for my 2010 model. Anyway, they re-balanced it again, and it is now 90% back to normal.
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The water cooling is interesting. I suspect it may have become a necessity for passenger comfort since the batteries are packaged underneath the rear seat.
Yes, it is interesting. I don't think the air cooling always worked the best, but it is simple. The batteries perform best when the are kept around 75 degrees. In many situations this was not possible with air cooling. Remember the original Ford hybrid, the Escape, used the air-conditioner to cool the batteries.
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The Escape Hybrid mechanically sounds similar to the current Fusion Hybrid except that it has water cooled batteries.
Oh, and the engine displacement went back up to 2.5 liters like the 2010-2012s.
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Most of the lighting control (such as dark car) is controlled by the GEM / SJB (also called BCM on some Fords). The Fusion Hybrid configuration of this module should be similar to other Fords of similar model year.
The IPC module controls the instrument panel I have not seen anyone turn on a digital speedometer. This IPC module is only used in the 2010-2012 Fusion Hybrid, Lincoln MKZ Hybrid and Mercury Milan Hybrid so the IPC configuration will be different from all other Ford cars. Some people just start changing some of the values and see what happens. Kind of trial and error.
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2020 Escape available as Hybrid and Plug-in Hybrid. Anyone buying one?
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do you know where to find the spreadsheet for the 2010-2012 fusion hybrid?
I assume you mean for as-built / configuration? I have not come across one. What in particular are you looking to enable / disable?
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So how do I get the car to initiate a re-balance? Is there any way I can do that?
The car will do it on its own every ~10K miles or so.
Special diagnostic tools are needed to initiate it manually. The Autel MD 808 is one such tool that reportedly can do it.
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What is the procedure to initiate a re-balancing by the car itself?
I've tried racing the engine in park for about 5 min, which appears to deliver a full charge to the HV battery, but it doesn't improve driving. FFH still will not run in EV mode.
You can't re-balance by racing the engine.
The battery charge percentage shown on your dash isn't the real battery charge, it is the usable battery charge range. So when your dash displays 0% battery it is really at something like 40% actual battery charge. And when your dash displays 100% it is really like 70% actual battery charge.
When you rev your engine, the car's computer will not allow the actual battery charge to go over 70%. When your car is doing a real re-balance, the car's computer will allow the charge to go over the 70% to aid the re-balancing process.
markwilson66 reacted to this
Limp mode 2010 FF hybrid- code P1AOC?
in 2010-2012 Fusion Hybrid
Posted · Edited by Automate · Report reply
This is for an 2008 Escape Hybrid but its the same fault code and turned out to be the throttle valve https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/41809/2008-ford-escape-hybrid-stop-safely-now-p1a0c
Here is one that ended up being the purge valve