aldenite

BTW,don't give up on the car. I love it even with the pull over safely problem.

Totally freaked me out the first time I got that. Good news is that it always restarted. They've had a lot of problems with the throttle body. They finally replaced mine and I seem to be doing okay so far.

My 2012 can be pretty efficient at higher speeds. Assuming level ground, I can get 50mph with the ICE at 50mph. Efficiency goes down at lower speeds..40mpg at 40mph...30mpg at 30mph. All assuming level ground and a very light touch on the gas pedal. Charging the battery is much more efficient at higher speeds. It is something of a balancing act. I use the ICE to get up to speed and EV to maintain it.

Yes, I use the ICE to accelerate. Even I am not patient enough to try to try to get to speed from a stop in EV mode. Once I am at speed, I alternate between EV and ICE modes. I use EV as much as possible, depending on terrain, traffic, weather conditions, etc.

My car only runs in EV up to 47mph. EV uses zero gas, so the more time you spend in EV mode the less gas you use. For me, that means that does mean lower than highway speeds. It is more efficient to charge the battery at higher speeds. Using the gas engine at lower speeds results in lower gas mileage. In the end it is a balance. Use whatever is most efficient.

I picked up my car yesterday. Had a long talk with the service manager. He does seem to understand hybrids. There just aren't enough clues for him to diagnose it without a code. I really do 'get' that. unfortunately it doesn't help make me feel good about driving the car, especially in this bitter cold weather with blowing/drifting snow . I bought a new car for reliability and this just does not fit the bill. Unfortunately it would cost me to about 12,000 to trade for a comparable 2014, so I seem to be stuck. I've started a log of normal behavior, mileage and temps so I will have concrete comparison data when it messes up again. Maybe I will come up with a pattern.

I haven't heard from the dealer yet, but I plan to ask some questions when he calls. I wondered about the battery pack because it doesn't seem like it has any power even though the battery indicator shows it as charged.

I have a 2012. The 'secret' is to maximize the amount of time in EV mode. I am very aware of how much I can get out of the car in electric mode. That is why I am sure that it was not acting right when I got it back the last time.

Yes, it is brutal out there. Alden road consistently blows and drifts over causing whiteout conditions. Having the car die in the wrong spot could be fatal. Sorry to hear you had a problem, but I am glad you are okay.

I had really hoped it wouldn't come to that, but it appears that Ford's idea of a warranty is to simply tell the customer there is "no concern" if they can't figure out the problem. "Concern" seems to be code for being unable to troubleshoot the problem. I asked a customer service rep if it was Ford's policy to put a customer back into an unsafe car. Her answer was "There is no policy to put customers in "unsafe" vehicles, Mary Lou. However, if there's no concern found, there's not much the dealership can but to return your vehicle to you." Effectively, this means that no matter how many times the vehicles dies while I am driving it, if they are unable to troubleshoot the problem they will say there is "no concern" and return it to me. Check out the national highway safety administration web site I referenced previously. There are plenty of other customers who have experienced this attitude.They even returned a car with this problem to the owner unfixed after it died on the dealer and had to be towed. I don't know how much more you could do to prove that a problem exists.

Yes. I was told that I was already dealing with a regional customer service rep and there is nothing she can do. The regional rep was quite firm that since I can't reproduce the problem at will, there is 'no concern' (he kept repeating 'no concern' throughout the conversation). I clarified that there IS a concern, Ford just couldn't diagnose the cause. I hate the thought of driving a car that randomly dies on me, especially considering I take my 85 year old father out for shopping and lunch on Sundays. I certainly don't trust the car anymore. The sad thing is that I absolutely LOVED the car. I was averaging 50mpg and raved about it to everyone.

Update: I got a call from the Ford regional CS rep. He told me that there was 'no concern' with the car and I should pick it up. Apparently Ford doesn't consider randomly dying while driving down the road to be a 'concern'. I was told to call roadside assistance the next time it leaves me stranded. So much for their 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.

I was doing some research on this problem and found the national highway traffic safety administration website. It appears that Ford DOES have a policy of returning unsafe vehicles to their owners without fixing the problem. Below are several examples, but there are a quite a few additional complaints. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchSafetyIssues SUMMARY:WHILE DRIVING IN MODERATE AFTERNOON TRAFFIC, WITHOUT WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL BECAME UNRESPONSIVE. A WARNING CHIME SOUNDED AND A "STOP SAFELY NOW" MESSAGE APPEARED ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE INSTRUMENT CLUSTER; THE VEHICLE EFFECTIVELY STALLED. AFTER PULLING ONTO THE SHOULDER, THE VEHICLE WAS COMPLETELY TURNED OFF AND RESTARTED. THE TRIP CONTINUED WITHOUT INCIDENT. SINCE THEN THE VEHICLE HAS RANDOMLY STALLED, WITHOUT WARNING SIX ADDITIONAL TIMES IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS AT VARIOUS SPEEDS. THE VEHICLE DID NOT RESTART AFTER THE LAST STALL AND HAD TO BE TOWED IN FOR SERVICE. IT HAS BEEN IN FOR REPAIRS RELATED TO THIS ISSUE ON THREE OCCASIONS OVER THE COURSE OF 4 MONTHS FOR A TOTAL OF 29 DAYS. ON ONE OCCASION, WHILE IN FOR SERVICE, THE DEALER INFORMED THE OWNER THAT THE VEHICLE ALSO STALLED WHILE BEING ROAD TESTED AND HAD TO BE TOWED BACK. THE DEALER HAS UPDATED VARIOUS SOFTWARE MODULES AND REPLACED A GATEWAY MODULE, HIGH VOLTAGE CABLE AND BATTERY CONTROLLER. THE VEHICLE IS CURRENTLY LESS THAN 11 MONTHS OLD WITH 6850 MILES. THIS HAS BEEN A SERIOUS AND PERSISTENT SAFETY ISSUE. FORD HAS DECLINED A REQUESTED VEHICLE EXCHANGE. AS A RESULT, THIS POTENTIALLY UNSAFE CAR IS CURRENTLY BACK ON THE ROAD WITH AN OWNER THAT NO LONGER HAS ANY CONFIDENCE IN IT AND FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT RECOIL AT THE THOUGHT OF BEING DRIVEN IN IT. SUMMARY:PICKED UP THE CAR FROM THE DEALERSHIP ON MONDAY (9/25/12) AFTER THEY FOUND SOMETHING WRONG AND WAS DRIVING ON STATE ROUTE 228 AT 55 MILE PER HOUR. WARNING CHIME SOUNDED, PULL OVER SAFELY WARNING CAME ON, ENGINE SHUT OFF, BRAKES AND ACCELERATOR DISENGAGED, AND ALL DASHBOARD LIGHTS ILLUMINATED. PUT HAZARDS ON FOR CARS BEHIND ME AND PULLED OVER QUICKLY AVOIDING A SIGN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD. AFTER 10-15 MINS, I WAS ABLE TO RESTART THE CAR BY LETTING IT RESET. AFTER GETTING GREEN CAR INDICATOR, I WENT TO TURN AROUND TO GO BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP. THE CAR JUMPED FORWARD AND STALLED IN THE INTERSECTION OF STATE ROUTE 228 AND BUCK HILL RD. I WAS ABLE TO HAVE IT START, JUMP, AND STALL TWO TIMES (ENOUGH TO GET ME OUT OF THE INTERSECTION). UPON ARRIVING THE DEALERSHIP, THEY COULD NOT FIND ANY CODES THAT WERE DISRUPTED. THE SERVICE MANAGER CONTACTED FORD TECH LINE AND DROVE IT HOME FOR A FEW DAYS TO TRY TO ACTIVATE PROBLEM. COULD NOT ACTIVATE, CAR RETURNED WITH INSTRUCTIONS TO HAVE IT TOWED HERE AND DO NOT RESTART IT WHEN IT BREAKS DOWN.

My dealer is in McHenry. Dealer has been letting the regional CS rep handle the contact. All the regional guy says is that they can't find the problem and that I can't PROVE it will quit again. True enough but then again since they don't know why it quit in the first place they sure can't prove it won't. As far as the temps, I've been driving it all winter in this cold and it never acted that oddly before. I drive the same route every day and the behavior was clearly odd. I drove it multiple times to be sure it wasn't a one time fluke before I called Ford. My car is garage kept and I warm it up before I leave for work. I had been averaging 50mpg over the first year and a half of driving by maximizing the use of EV. Both fails have been in EV mode. I have a background in software testing and my guts tells me that that there is a defect. If it was a computer and I could test it in the safety of my home, I would happily do their job and figure out was going on. I am NOT willing to drive it in this weather and have it die on me again. I loved the car until now, but I don't consider it safe to drive. I DID notice that if you drive it like a gas car (keep it in gas mode as much as possible) it acts fine. I suspect that is what the dealer is doing.

On November 13, 2013 I was on my way to work. I was in EV mode when suddenly there was a loud 'ding, ding, ding' and a red 'pull over safely' message on the dashboard. Talk about an adrenaline moment while I frantically looked for a safe place to pull over. My husband came and I was able to restart it and have him follow me to the dealer. They got an EEC test code P0456 and replaced canister. All seemed well except for poor gas mileage for several months. January 20,2014 I am again on my way to work in the dark when the 'ding, ding, ding' started. Another adrenaline rush. Another trip to the dealer. This time they kept it for a week and weren't able to find anything. Ford told them to reprogram the PCM snd give it back to me. I drove it home and had trouble getting it to drop into electric mode, even at a stop sign. When it DID drop into electric mode, it had no power and immediately the gas engine started again even if I had my foot off the gas. I drove it several more times with similar problems. Finally I called Ford customer service and was given a case number. A regional customer service rep has called me several times. He keeps telling me that they can't recreate the problem and that I can't PROVE that it will quit again. He wants me to take it back again. I drive to work early in the morning on rural roads with NO SHOULDER and blowing/drifting snow. Pull over safely doesn't work well when there is no safe spot to stop. It is not safe to drive a car that dies randomly. I want to know if it is an official Ford policy to repeatedly give unsafe cars back to customers because they are unable to diagnose the problem. Where I work we don't expect customers to diagnose their own problems. If technical support can't diagnose the problem it is escalated to development. We don't just abandon the customer. Does Ford think it is okay to deal with a SAFETY failure by dumping the unfixed car back on the customer???